Prospect Info: 2023 NHL Draft - Part 2 (Who Do You Want To Draft At #2)

[tomd]

I’d ask him what’s he’s doing and if I didn’t like the answer would draft someone else. It’s not complicated.

oh, I think it is way more complicated. But I trust that PV and company will not be so one-dimensional. Carlsson may well stay in Sweden next year. Michkov is in Russia for the next 3. Smith and Leonard will both be in college for sure next year. Who are you going to draft??

 

[Ducks]

I’d ask him what’s he’s doing and if I didn’t like the answer would draft someone else. It’s not complicated.

He's indicated that he is going to take the advice of whatever NHL team drafts him as to where he should play next:

"I think I'll make that decision when it comes and whatever the [NHL] team says and whatever my close circle around me says," Fantilli said on Wednesday. "I'll take their advice and make a decision at the end of the day, but we haven't really gotten there yet."

I don't read that as he really wants to go back to college, he just wants to do what is best for his development and is going to trust the experts to help him decide.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I’d trust McIlvane or Cronin before I’d trust Michigan’s coaches. They are trying to win games in college and have no stake in the Ducks.

You state things with folly and without substance. Everyone's trying to win games while developing. If you don't win enough games, then you're fired. I've already shared the many top end prospects who have returned to Michigan and prospered the ensuing year in the NHL. It's a shame you don't do research, especially with denigrating the Michigan program.

By design, the NCAA route is the best body development program. There's video out there that shows a big difference in bodies between Fantilli and Carlsson. Fantilli is the hard hitting, power forward. Another year of body development at the NCAA route would be ideal for Fantilli. We have three Michigan prospects who stayed two years in the program and have looked good in the NHL this past year in #1 OA D Power, #2 OA C Beniers, and #5 OA LW Johnson all playing constant.

The #3 OA in that draft year was McTavish and he was returned to the CHL compared to the Michigan guys drafted around him. McTavish faded this past season around game 50. McTavish was only 4 points away from Beniers around that time in the season. At the end of the season, it's a 14 point gap between the two. McTavish finished with 43 points and Beniers with 57 points. Even Johnson nearly caught up to McTavish as Johnson finished with 40 points while playing about a minute less than McTavish.

I guess LaCombe developing at Minnesota was a waste, according to your standards. Hell, we didn't screw up Lundy's development at all.

 

[Deuce22]

He's indicated that he is going to take the advice of whatever NHL team drafts him as to where he should play next:

"I think I'll make that decision when it comes and whatever the [NHL] team says and whatever my close circle around me says," Fantilli said on Wednesday. "I'll take their advice and make a decision at the end of the day, but we haven't really gotten there yet."

I don't read that as he really wants to go back to college, he just wants to do what is best for his development and is going to trust the experts to help him decide.

This is good to know.

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

This is good to know.

Hes basically saying.. Whoever drafts me needs to play me..He wants to play in the big league.. Anaheim needs to guarantee him that.. Of course he has to prove he can keep up with the league..

 

[Deuce22]

You state things with folly and without substance. Everyone's trying to win games while developing. If you don't win enough games, then you're fired. I've already shared the many top end prospects who have returned to Michigan and prospered the ensuing year in the NHL. It's a shame you don't do research, especially with denigrating the Michigan program.

By design, the NCAA route is the best body development program. There's video out there that shows a big difference in bodies between Fantilli and Carlsson. Fantilli is the hard hitting, power forward. Another year of body development at the NCAA route would be ideal for Fantilli. We have three Michigan prospects who stayed two years in the program and have looked good in the NHL this past year in #1 OA D Power, #2 OA C Beniers, and #5 OA LW Johnson all playing constant.

The #3 OA in that draft year was McTavish and he was returned to the CHL compared to the Michigan guys drafted around him. McTavish faded this past season around game 50. McTavish was only 4 points away from Beniers around that time in the season. At the end of the season, it's a 14 point gap between the two. McTavish finished with 43 points and Beniers with 57 points. Even Johnson nearly caught up to McTavish as Johnson finished with 40 points while playing about a minute less than McTavish.

I guess LaCombe developing at Minnesota was a waste, according to your standards. Hell, we didn't screw up Lundy's development at all.

1. I didn't denigrate Michigan's program. You made that up.
2. Comparing this situation to McTavish is bogus. Fantilli would be under the Ducks supervision, McTavish was in juniors.
3. LaCombe didn't win the Hobey Baker in his freshman season. He also wasn't the second pick in the draft.
4. Lundestrom wasn't developed by the current Ducks coaches. Pointless to compare his development under completely different people.

 

[ScarTroy]

You state things with folly and without substance. Everyone's trying to win games while developing. If you don't win enough games, then you're fired. I've already shared the many top end prospects who have returned to Michigan and prospered the ensuing year in the NHL. It's a shame you don't do research, especially with denigrating the Michigan program.

By design, the NCAA route is the best body development program. There's video out there that shows a big difference in bodies between Fantilli and Carlsson. Fantilli is the hard hitting, power forward. Another year of body development at the NCAA route would be ideal for Fantilli. We have three Michigan prospects who stayed two years in the program and have looked good in the NHL this past year in #1 OA D Power, #2 OA C Beniers, and #5 OA LW Johnson all playing constant.

The #3 OA in that draft year was McTavish and he was returned to the CHL compared to the Michigan guys drafted around him. McTavish faded this past season around game 50. McTavish was only 4 points away from Beniers around that time in the season. At the end of the season, it's a 14 point gap between the two. McTavish finished with 43 points and Beniers with 57 points. Even Johnson nearly caught up to McTavish as Johnson finished with 40 points while playing about a minute less than McTavish.

I guess LaCombe developing at Minnesota was a waste, according to your standards. Hell, we didn't screw up Lundy's development at all.

You’re comparing apples to oranges and trying to make a connection here though with the McTavish and Beniers/ Johnson comparison. It’s not like McTavish played 80+ games in the CHL, his body also had time to recover. Don’t you think it’s possible that Beniers just has much better stamina at this age, as he’s been known for his motor which isn’t something we have heard about McTavish.

I just see no reason how you can come to the conclusion that Fantilli should spend a year in a league he dominated because McTavish slowed down at game 50 while Beniers didn’t. I’m sure I can find a guy who went to NCAA after his draft year and still had similar issues as McTavish of slowing down later in the season.

 

[Beckett]

Nadeau would be an amazing pick at 33 but I think he's going to go earlier than the projections... late teens early 20's. He's got pretty much everything you want from a winger, besides the size. But 5' 10" is fine for the amount of skill speed and decision making he brings.

 

[Ducks]

You state things with folly and without substance. Everyone's trying to win games while developing. If you don't win enough games, then you're fired. I've already shared the many top end prospects who have returned to Michigan and prospered the ensuing year in the NHL. It's a shame you don't do research, especially with denigrating the Michigan program.

By design, the NCAA route is the best body development program. There's video out there that shows a big difference in bodies between Fantilli and Carlsson. Fantilli is the hard hitting, power forward. Another year of body development at the NCAA route would be ideal for Fantilli. We have three Michigan prospects who stayed two years in the program and have looked good in the NHL this past year in #1 OA D Power, #2 OA C Beniers, and #5 OA LW Johnson all playing constant.

The #3 OA in that draft year was McTavish and he was returned to the CHL compared to the Michigan guys drafted around him. McTavish faded this past season around game 50. McTavish was only 4 points away from Beniers around that time in the season. At the end of the season, it's a 14 point gap between the two. McTavish finished with 43 points and Beniers with 57 points. Even Johnson nearly caught up to McTavish as Johnson finished with 40 points while playing about a minute less than McTavish.

I guess LaCombe developing at Minnesota was a waste, according to your standards. Hell, we didn't screw up Lundy's development at all.

Can you provide any real evidence that the NCAA is the best "body development program" other than anecdotally pointing to the fact that they play fewer games per season? This gets thrown around a lot like it's truth without much in the way of supporting evidence.

Also where did Deuce22 denigrate the University of Michigan hockey program? Is it in a different thread because I'm not seeing it.

Regarding McTavish, are you suggesting that if he had been a part of Michigan's program he would have had more points post-50 game mark this past season? I'm not exactly sure how that comparison applies here or whether that's your actual argument.

 

[Beckett]

NCAA has rules against practicing as much as the pros do and yeah It's just hard to focus on building your body up when you're playing professional games every other day.

I don't think it's likely but I'd like to see Fantilli stay another year at Michigan. I want to see him take his team to the ship as the man and maybe dominate a WOrld Juniors. I think it would give him a chance to work on dominating other ways offensively and learn to be more selective with his physicality. Part of me worries puting him in the N/AHL at 19 will force him to rely on his speed and throwing his body around and it could stutter his offensive potential/aproach or even lead to injuries.

 

[KelVarnsen]

Playing devils advocate here….. What if Fantilli stays and the competition is too easy for him and he develops bad habits due to the level of the competition?

Not saying that will happen but it’s as much of a possibility as him relying solely on his speed and throwing his body around in the NHL is it not?

 

[Beckett]

Maybe, but there's pretty strong evidence out there that he's insanely hardworking and most importantly thoughtful about it. I'm sure he can motivate himself with new challenges, sounds like he's been doing that for years.

 

[70sSanO]

Playing devils advocate here….. What if Fantilli stays and the competition is too easy for him and he develops bad habits due to the level of the competition?

Not saying that will happen but it’s as much of a possibility as him relying solely on his speed and throwing his body around in the NHL is it not?

Well I guess Cronin might have found his enforcer. I can hear it now…

“Hello Adam, I’m Coach Cronin. I have some good news and bad news for you.”

John

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

Did anyone watch this?

I stayed in their first stream for 45 minutes and left because they said they would do the stream another day. Anything good?

 

[Gliff]

Playing devils advocate here….. What if Fantilli stays and the competition is too easy for him and he develops bad habits due to the level of the competition?

Not saying that will happen but it’s as much of a possibility as him relying solely on his speed and throwing his body around in the NHL is it not?

Then he signs a contract and goes pro. He can do it any time.

 

[tomd]

Did anyone watch this?

I stayed in their first stream for 45 minutes and left because they said they would do the stream another day. Anything good?

I watched most of it after it was over. They answered a lot of questions but the main takeaway was that they are both big Fantilli fans and have him going 2nd.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Many are citing that San Diego could be an option if Fantilli can't handle the NHL. That thought runs contrary to Verbeek's preference of toggling prospects between the NHL and AHL. Verbeek wants a prospect to be NHL ready and stay in the NHL.

What in the hell are you talking about? Ignoring how much people have bastardized one Verbeek quote and used it however it might suit their argument(yourself included), how does sending a player who’s not ready for the NHL to San Diego in any way run contrary to anyone’s preference? This doesn’t remotely make sense.

Yes, it is that simple, if he’s not ready in training camp then he can just go there. There shouldn’t be a scenario on earth where you’d want Fantilli to go back to Michigan and it’s a moot point because he isn’t.

 

[Ducks]

NCAA has rules against practicing as much as the pros do and yeah It's just hard to focus on building your body up when you're playing professional games every other day.

I totally get the idea that fewer games = more gym time in college. However, I think we've kind of accepted the idea that a player will become stronger in a college setting over a professional setting without truly examining it. We're basically saying that professional teams that pay players millions of dollars a year don't have the people or structure in place that can match college strength training programs. We also act like these strength/body gains are permanent somehow, like an extra year in college will make a player stronger permanently or something even after they transition to the professional schedule. I just think we've kind of accepted this idea that college will make a player stronger than a professional sports team as a truism without actual evidence to back it up.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Hes basically saying.. Whoever drafts me needs to play me..He wants to play in the big league.. Anaheim needs to guarantee him that.. Of course he has to prove he can keep up with the league..

I don’t think that’s what he’s saying at all. The athletic article about him detailed how he has repeatedly identified weaknesses in his game, actively sought out constructive criticism, and the proactively been the driving force in turning his weaknesses into strengths. He wants the best advice on how to be the best NHL player possible, not assurances that he’ll be paid or played.

 

[forever1922]

Watching Fantilli at the Worlds I have no doubt he's prepared to work hard to get his chances to be in a lineup. No complaining, manages any frustrations well. Just a very mature way he approaches challenges.

Now his interview well, it shows he's a young guy. But there are no concerns when it comes to that stuff mentioned above.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

I think way too much is being made about his comments on turning pro. It isn’t just his decision and there are few hockey players ever who would say they’re done with college before they even know what NHL team they’re apart of. That’s all it is, just normal hockey player fake modesty. Same thing with Bedard talking about “if” Chicago drafts him.

 

[duckpuck]

I'd want him working with the Ducks development guys and coaches, not trying to win games for a college coach. Drafting a guy that high, I'd want control of his career and path to the Ducks. Learning the systems, getting to know the players and coaches. Being part of the setting up of a new culture. I would question someone who was the best player at a level, then wanted to return to that same level that he's already dominated. I want someone who's hungry to get better and getting better in Fantilli's case means playing against better. He won't get that at Michigan.

I agree with a lot of this, particularly that a NHL team wants to have control of the player's training and development. What I don't understand is why you seems to be so high on Michkov. Any team drafting him is likely to have zero control or input on his development for at least several years and, instead, will need to rely on the KHL where players are likely to develop bad habits.

Can you provide any real evidence that the NCAA is the best "body development program" other than anecdotally pointing to the fact that they play fewer games per season? This gets thrown around a lot like it's truth without much in the way of supporting evidence.

Also where did Deuce22 denigrate the University of Michigan hockey program? Is it in a different thread because I'm not seeing it.

Regarding McTavish, are you suggesting that if he had been a part of Michigan's program he would have had more points post-50 game mark this past season? I'm not exactly sure how that comparison applies here or whether that's your actual argument.

I was going to post exactly this. To make a blanket statement like that is just asinine. Every player is different and every situation is different. You can't compare the development trajectory of a top draft pick who is one of the highest rated prospects in recent years (Fanitlli would have been the top pick in most recent drafts) to a low first round draft pick like Lundestrom.

In Fantilli's case, it seems like he'll get a lot more from the NHL/AHL experience and he's physically ready for that. He's also coming to a team/coach/gm emphasizing player development, with a chance to have an immediate impact on the team's core. I think an argument can be made about personal development (i.e., going to college might have some off ice benefits). But turning pro allows the player to spend a lot more time training and almost always provides better resources for physical and skill development. Not a criticism of Michigan. But no college is going to offer NHL level player development.

 

[Kalv]

6'1, great skater, led his team in scoring. Might be someone we target with a lower round pick. He had the worst +/- on the team despite being their best scorer tho.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

6'1, great skater, led his team in scoring. Might be someone we target with a lower round pick. He had the worst +/- on the team despite being their best scorer tho.

A very intriguing player as a long term project. Not too concerned with the high plus/minus since the whole team sucks with him. This is alike the Gulls' situation, where our team sucked to finish last in the league. Grimaldi and Groulx have high plus/minus ratings, but they're also the team's top two scorers. We can infer that they were on the ice more often as they were part the first line forward grouping.

Here's Terrance's THW scouting report, and I'd like to take a chance at him with our 59th, 60th, or 65th picks.

Carey Terrance - 2023 NHL Draft Prospect Profile - The Hockey Writers NHL Entry Draft Latest News, Analysis & More

Carey Terrance has all the tools to become an effective NHL center. If he puts it all together, he could be a steal in the 2023 NHL Draft.

thehockeywriters.com

 

[FiveHoleTickler]

6'1, great skater, led his team in scoring. Might be someone we target with a lower round pick. He had the worst +/- on the team despite being their best scorer tho.

Found this too funny not to post given the "average puck skills" meme about Zegras from Pronman:

https://theathletic.com/4538998/2023/05/30/nhl-draft-rankings-2023-bedard-pronman/