Prospect Info: 2023 NHL Draft (mod warning 1st post)

[Anaheim4ever]

Yeah i know its early but 2022 draft discussion started pretty quickly too last year.
So far its #1 Bedard and #2 Mitchkov but after that what are players you are interested in for the Ducks ?
I don't see Bedard falling like Wright did at all. Who will be this years Slaf and Cooley ?

Blanket warning to everyone - the season is over, the active tanking is over, and everyone needs to remember how to get along.

Polite discussions of different viewpoints is fine. Assertions as to who is a good fan, who is a bad fan, and most particularly trolling behavior is going to result in thread bans and warnings. The vast majority of posters here are great about this. There are a few of you, on both sides of this issue, who are trying to start things, and I would advise you to carefully consider if that snarky comment you just made is worth being your last post in a thread. I would advise the folks who think that making an even snarkier response to make that same assessment. Neither of your posts will be seen by anyone else for long regardless.

It is perfectly fine to not understand how anyone could root for the team to lose. It is perfectly fine to not understand how losing has strong benefits to the franchise king term. There are gaping holes in BOTH positions, that may be discussed and debated…POLITELY.

We are all Ducks fans. Time to remember that and stop being at each other’s throats.

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[Anarchynate]

Thought of a fun little 2 round mock draft, here were my results

Round 1 pick 4; Michkov. Sorry can’t pass up a talent like this. Even if it takes 3 years. He would give us a legitimate 40-50 goal scoring wing

3 second rounders as of right now

#36 Nick Lardis. My favorite prospect in this draft. Dude is so fast and has lightning quick shot. He will shoot up draft boards in the coming months

#61 Kalan Lind. Another lighting quick kid with a wicked shot. Speed Speed and more Speed.

#64 Etienne Morin. Can’t go this long without selecting a Q player. The best Q defensive man fall into our lap once again. Plays like Drysdale.

 

[mighty Stanley Duck]

Still don’t see the upside most do in this draft. It’s a strong top-4, then it drops off. I would be disappointed if we drafted someone like Smith over Michkov

Of course Bedard or Michkov would be great, but considering our team development, i don't think there is huge difference between Michkov, Leo and Smith...all good prospects. For me more important are UFA signings and trades Pat will do along the road...

 

[HunterDuck]

Teams will be spooked on Michkov letting him fall to us at 5

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Of course Bedard or Michkov would be great, but considering our team development, i don't think there is huge difference between Michkov, Leo and Smith...all good prospects. For me more important are UFA signings and trades Pat will do along the road...

Year 1 of Verbeek's acquisition outside the draft hasn't looked good at all.

D Vaaks (Lindholm Trade... 2022 TDL)
D Helleson (Manson Trade... 2022 TDL)
D White (FA)
C Strome (FA)
RW Vatrano (FA)
D Klingberg (FA)
D Kulikov (Cap dump trade w/ Minny)
D Beaulieu (FA... due to Vaaks injury before season started)
RW Leason (waiver)
C Megna (waiver)
D Harrington (waiver)
F McGinn (Kulikov trade... 2023 TDL)
D Sustr (Klingberg trade... 2023 TDL)
F Nesterenko (Klingberg trade... 2023 TDL)

 

[cheesymc]

Thought of a fun little 2 round mock draft, here were my results

Round 1 pick 4; Michkov. Sorry can’t pass up a talent like this. Even if it takes 3 years. He would give us a legitimate 40-50 goal scoring wing

3 second rounders as of right now

#36 Nick Lardis. My favorite prospect in this draft. Dude is so fast and has lightning quick shot. He will shoot up draft boards in the coming months

#61 Kalan Lind. Another lighting quick kid with a wicked shot. Speed Speed and more Speed.

#64 Etienne Morin. Can’t go this long without selecting a Q player. The best Q defensive man fall into our lap once again. Plays like Drysdale.

Kalan Lind isn't a speedster... hes projected to be like his brother with average speed.

I doubt Madden/Verbeek would go with back to back small finesse scorers in Michkov and Lardis. Madden is really consistent in having a balanced draft, but I think it hurts us more often than helps as he passes on the better player, like picking Etem over Faulk after drafting Fowler... I hope this did not happen with us going with McTavish/Zellweger over Hughes or Edvinsson + forward like Ostapachuk but we will see.

Year 1 of Verbeek's acquisition outside the draft hasn't looked good at all.

D Vaaks (Lindholm Trade... 2022 TDL)
D Helleson (Manson Trade... 2022 TDL)
D White (FA)
C Strome (FA)
RW Vatrano (FA)
D Klingberg (FA)
D Kulikov (Cap dump trade w/ Minny)
D Beaulieu (FA... due to Vaaks injury before season started)
RW Leason (waiver)
C Megna (waiver)
D Harrington (waiver)
F McGinn (Kulikov trade... 2023 TDL)
D Sustr (Klingberg trade... 2023 TDL)
F Nesterenko (Klingberg trade... 2023 TDL)

But he was a scout and is supposed to be a good talent evaluator right?

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Kalan Lind isn't a speedster... hes projected to be like his brother with average speed.

I doubt Madden/Verbeek would go with back to back small finesse scorers in Michkov and Lardis. Madden is really consistent in having a balanced draft, but I think it hurts us more often than helps as he passes on the better player, like picking Etem over Faulk after drafting Fowler... I hope this did not happen with us going with McTavish/Zellweger over Hughes or Edvinsson + forward like Ostapachuk but we will see.


But he was a scout and is supposed to be a good talent evaluator right?

That's what he said.

With our 2023 draft, the defensemen seem like our own staff drafting. With forwards Gaucher and King, it feels like Verbeek. With Hvidston and Callow, it feels like our own staff taking a swing in the 5th and 6th round. Callow is the first college bound prospect under Verbeek, probably because both LaCombe and Thrun refused to sign last season as juniors. G Buteyetes is the Ducks completing a balanced draft and a stashed away prospect.

 

[cheesymc]

That's what he said.

With our 2023 draft, the defensemen seem like our own staff drafting. With forwards Gaucher and King, it feels like Verbeek. With Hvidston and Callow, it feels like our own staff taking a swing in the 5th and 6th round. Callow is the first college bound prospect under Verbeek, probably because both LaCombe and Thrun refused to sign last season as juniors. G Buteyetes is the Ducks completing a balanced draft and a stashed away prospect.

I am wondering if we were really targeting a combo of Kasper + Bichel, instead of Mintyukov + Gaucher... so we compensated with Warren early...

It has been very interesting that we were very USA/CAN focused and now have become EXTREMELY CAN focused, with late darts in SWE/RUS. I'm expecting a CAN loaded draft again, mostly from WHL and QMJHL.

 

[GreatBear]

Year 1 of Verbeek's acquisition outside the draft hasn't looked good at all.

D Vaaks (Lindholm Trade... 2022 TDL)
D Helleson (Manson Trade... 2022 TDL)
D White (FA)
C Strome (FA)
RW Vatrano (FA)
D Klingberg (FA)
D Kulikov (Cap dump trade w/ Minny)
D Beaulieu (FA... due to Vaaks injury before season started)
RW Leason (waiver)
C Megna (waiver)
D Harrington (waiver)
F McGinn (Kulikov trade... 2023 TDL)
D Sustr (Klingberg trade... 2023 TDL)
F Nesterenko (Klingberg trade... 2023 TDL)

I have a different take on some of these players that you have listed.

Helleson - Too soon to evaluate. This is his first full pro season, and he seems to be doing better in the later part of this year. Players, defensemen particularly, take a while to develop.
White - Signed for the Gulls and the Ducks as a depth replacement. He belongs in the AHL not on the Ducks and he should be evaluated as such.
Vatrano - I think that the Ducks are getting what they paid for. I am not disappointed in his performance.
Kulikov - You get what you paid for, and the Ducks paid nothing. He actually played reasonably at times.
Harrington - He is playing way too high in the lineup, but looks to me like an acceptable 6/7 defenseman. If he plays to that 6/7 level the Ducks are getting reasonable production out of him.
McGinn - Why anyone would expect him to produce on the first line is beyond me. Let us see how he does down the lineup.
Sustr - Picked up as a very short term warm body replacement. How can he possibly disappoint anyone when he was picked up at this level
Nesterenko - He plays his first game tonight. Let us at least watch him play before calling him a poor decision. I don't have a lot of faith, but he needs time to adjust (preferably at the AHL level), and fair is fair. I would speculate that to get him signed the Ducks needed to promise him that they would start him at the NHL level with its higher salary than the AHL.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I am wondering if we were really targeting a combo of Kasper + Bichel, instead of Mintyukov + Gaucher... so we compensated with Warren early...

It has been very interesting that we were very USA/CAN focused and now have become EXTREMELY CAN focused, with late darts in SWE/RUS. I'm expecting a CAN loaded draft again, mostly from WHL and QMJHL.

Bichel went 19th overall, so he wouldn't be available to us at 22nd overall.

Because we traded away Lindholm and Manson, then conflate that with LaCombe and Thrun not signing last year, acquiring D-men was a priority. Offensive D often get drafted ahead of defensive D unless that defensive D has much higher talent with some offense like a Power and Sanderson.

Warren wasn't selected early. Warren was the last of the top defensive-d talent tier and we're lucky to have nabbed him when we did.

-Rd 1, 19th: D Bichsel
-Rd 1, 21st: D Pickering
-Rd 1, 29th: D Lamoureaux
-Rd 2, 37th: D Chesley
-Rd 2, 42nd: D Warren

With the loss of collegiate Thrun, Verbeek might want to continue to stay away collegians in the first four rounds of the draft.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I have a different take on some of these players that you have listed.

Helleson - Too soon to evaluate. This is his first full pro season, and he seems to be doing better in the later part of this year. Players, defensemen particularly, take a while to develop.
White - Signed for the Gulls and the Ducks as a depth replacement. He belongs in the AHL not on the Ducks and he should be evaluated as such.
Vatrano - I think that the Ducks are getting what they paid for. I am not disappointed in his performance.
Kulikov - You get what you paid for, and the Ducks paid nothing. He actually played reasonably at times.
Harrington - He is playing way too high in the lineup, but looks to me like an acceptable 6/7 defenseman. If he plays to that 6/7 level the Ducks are getting reasonable production out of him.
McGinn - Why anyone would expect him to produce on the first line is beyond me. Let us see how he does down the lineup.
Sustr - Picked up as a very short term warm body replacement. How can he possibly disappoint anyone when he was picked up at this level
Nesterenko - He plays his first game tonight. Let us at least watch him play before calling him a poor decision. I don't have a lot of faith, but he needs time to adjust (preferably at the AHL level), and fair is fair. I would speculate that to get him signed the Ducks needed to promise him that they would start him at the NHL level with its higher salary than the AHL.

Doh! I started the list... got pulled away and went back to listing, losing track that I was only supposed to highlight bad acquisitions. Sustr and Nesterenko shouldn't have been on there. My bad on that.

Helleson has looked bad this year. I'm not writing him off, but I'm disappointed with his production after the hype around him by Verbeek and mass media, where they ranked Helleson above Thrun and LaCombe. If you've been following the prospect thread, then you'll notice how I've been highlighting Helleson's plus/minus improving since Feb 7th. At ths rate, Helleson might need an additional two seasons before seeing the NHL as a regular call-up or regular. I don't mind with that rate, but his talent level isn't as high as it was hyped up to be.

Everyone else is playing a line or two or three higher than their talents. Verbeek acquired plugs for this season and he expected .500 play to start the season? Verbeek even mentioned he tried to sign Klingberg to a multi-year contract!

We should be critical of Verbeek's acquisitions from now on, despite being in a reset rebuild.

 

[GreatBear]

With the loss of collegiate Thrun, Verbeek might want to continue to stay away collegians in the first four rounds of the draft.

There is no doubt that collegians are a greater risk in the draft since they can become free agents after four unsigned years. I think that has to go into Verbeek's consideration, particularly in the first two rounds where you need to find players that you can use once they mature and reach the NHL. I might differ from your opinion with regards to the third and fourth rounds, where I think that it is worth taking a gamble on a potential player.

With Thrun we salvaged a third round pick with the San Jose trade, and since San Jose is still going to be bad next year that 2024 pick should be early in the third round. It is not ideal, but it is something. We also picked up Nesterenko because of the same rule, so I guess we "benefited" from it. Maybe if Nesterenko scores tonight I will feel better about him as a prospect than I do right now.

 

[cheesymc]

Bichel went 19th overall, so he wouldn't be available to us at 22nd overall.

Because we traded away Lindholm and Manson, then conflate that with LaCombe and Thrun not signing last year, acquiring D-men was a priority. Offensive D often get drafted ahead of defensive D unless that defensive D has much higher talent with some offense like a Power and Sanderson.

Warren wasn't selected early. Warren was the last of the top defensive-d talent tier and we're lucky to have nabbed him when we did.

-Rd 1, 19th: D Bichsel
-Rd 1, 21st: D Pickering
-Rd 1, 29th: D Lamoureaux
-Rd 2, 37th: D Chesley
-Rd 2, 42nd: D Warren

With the loss of collegiate Thrun, Verbeek might want to continue to stay away collegians in the first four rounds of the draft.

That is what I mean. That perhaps Madden was hoping for Cutter or Kasper to fall and then go with Bischel, but since Madden likes balance we went with defense first then forward with the 2nd first. It’s rare for Madden to double up on positions unless there is a big need.

I wonder if there are stats on percentage of players not signing by league. I feel that this mostly happens to collegiate players. I think the biggest profile player that did this that I can remember was Blake Wheeler. I can’t recall big profile players from Canada or Europe that refuse to sign.

 

[Anarchynate]

Kalan Lind isn't a speedster... hes projected to be like his brother with average speed.

I doubt Madden/Verbeek would go with back to back small finesse scorers in Michkov and Lardis. Madden is really consistent in having a balanced draft, but I think it hurts us more often than helps as he passes on the better player, like picking Etem over Faulk after drafting Fowler... I hope this did not happen with us going with McTavish/Zellweger over Hughes or Edvinsson + forward like Ostapachuk but we will see.


But he was a scout and is supposed to be a good talent evaluator right?

It’s funny that you say that when the majority of scouting reports having him as “ great speed “ . I also remember seeing him on team white during the red vs white game and thinking this kid is going to be a problem

 

[Hockey Duckie]

That is what I mean. That perhaps Madden was hoping for Cutter or Kasper to fall and then go with Bischel, but since Madden likes balance we went with defense first then forward with the 2nd first. It’s rare for Madden to double up on positions unless there is a big need.

I wonder if there are stats on percentage of players not signing by league. I feel that this mostly happens to collegiate players. I think the biggest profile player that did this that I can remember was Blake Wheeler. I can’t recall big profile players from Canada or Europe that refuse to sign.

We passed up on big 6'4 center Connor Geekie as well as a plethora of offensive forward dynamos like Nazar, McGroarty, Lekkerimaki, Ostlund, and Kemell - but they were on the small side. We went OFD based upon need, not balance. There were rumors we were hot on D Korchinski. (I didn't want Korchinski, but preferred Minty.) We went off balance with our second 2nd round pick with transition D Luneau, but he was a first round rated player before the season started and before he got knee surgery, iirc. I thought we were going to go upside offensive forward with the Luneau pick. Couldn't really be mad at the pick at the time, though, because I did research on Luneau before the draft.

As for players not signing, usually that's for collegiate players and players across the pond. College players get to be a FA if they refuse to sign 30 days after leaving college. As for players across the pond, the only example I know is G Andersen. He was originally a 7th round pick for the Canes in the 2010 draft. In 2012, Anaheim used a 3rd rounder on him.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Here's a recent scouting video on Carlsson. He actually has some bite, but it doesn't come out all that often. Maybe it will come as he continues to grow bigger and improve against adults next year.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Im hoping to see us take a cap dump for a 1st (us adding a future pick)

I also wonder if were in a spot where we dont hit Fantilli/Carlsson... and arnt really big on Benson/Smith, and dont want Michkov. I assume we have interest in Smith, but i think there is def a world where Verbeek isnt interested in Michkov or benson.

Does montreal ever trade their 1st(assuming its behind our pick) + panthers pick for Michkov?
Does Detroit ever trade their 1st + Islanders 1st for michkov

Does that pick have more value than that with Michkov still on the board(assuming there are teams interested in a bidding war for michkov)

 

[TopShelfWaterBottle]

If we pass on michkov I’ll be super butthurt because I could totally see the samuelis dictating that move… owners should stay out of draft choices

 

[Hockey Duckie]

If we pass on michkov I’ll be super butthurt because I could totally see the samuelis dictating that move… owners should stay out of draft choices

Stop confusing the Angels' owner for the Ducks' owner. We're in a reset rebuild. That's enough proof the owners are hands off on hockey operations.

 

[DavidBL]

If we pass on michkov I’ll be super butthurt because I could totally see the samuelis dictating that move… owners should stay out of draft choices

When have we ever had proof that ownership has influenced any hockey decision this organization has ever made?

 

[Gliff]

When have we ever had proof that ownership has influenced any hockey decision this organization has ever made?

Is there any proof they haven’t?

I feel like almost 20 years of ownership without one report of them making ANY hockey related influence is a lot more impactful then any speculation.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

If we pass on michkov I’ll be super butthurt because I could totally see the samuelis dictating that move… owners should stay out of draft choices

Hey I’m with you, but passing on michkov is realistically something that could happen

 

[Reveille1984]

At this point we're looking at a long rebuild so if there was a year to take a risk on someone like Michkov this would be it, especially looking at the alternatives after him. If we were on the cusp of being competitive I think it would be harder to swallow having to wait multiple years (or ever), but let's be real. Unless something magical happens (e.g. draft Bedard+Pastujov becomes a top line wing+Zellweger/Minty/Drysdale/LaCombe all develop quickly and become top 4 dmen), we're probably at best 3-4ish years away from making any noise.

All of our best prospects outside of LaCombe are 18 or 19 years old, and yeah they all have a lot of points but they'll still need to learn how to actually play NHL level defense and that comes with a lot of growing pains. It's also likely that some of them will flame out, and we can't expect to fully restock our entire team internally so we'll have to score on a few good FA acquisitions.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

At this point we're looking at a long rebuild so if there was a year to take a risk on someone like Michkov this would be it, especially looking at the alternatives after him. If we were on the cusp of being competitive I think it would be harder to swallow having to wait multiple years (or ever), but let's be real. Unless something magical happens (e.g. draft Bedard+Pastujov becomes a top line wing+Zellweger/Minty/Drysdale/LaCombe all develop quickly and become top 4 dmen), we're probably at best 3-4ish years away from making any noise.

All of our best prospects outside of LaCombe are 18 or 19 years old, and yeah they all have a lot of points but they'll still need to learn how to actually play NHL level defense and that comes with a lot of growing pains. It's also likely that some of them will flame out, and we can't expect to fully restock our entire team internally so we'll have to score on a few good FA acquisitions.

Michkov isn't the problem. The problem is the potential of if Russia will not let him leave Russia. It isn't that far away that we've seen Russians trying to defect Russia to play in North America.

2023 top-6 Talent Tier (IMO)

Bedard​

=======​

Fantilli​

Michkov​

=======​

Carlsson​

=======​

Smith​

Benson​

The 2023 top-6 all have the potential to being a first overall pick in the 2022 draft. Except for Michkov, all of the top-6 prospects will probably be one-and-done at the latest from their perspective leagues. Bedard goes to the NHL immediately. Fantilli could also make that NHL with Bedard. Carlsson, Smith, and Benson will probably need only a season and then go pro. That means these prospects will be developing chemistry and understanding their structures with their respective teams.

I believe we already have our stars and potential superstars in Zegras and McTavish. Terry is a stud. We aren't looking for saviors in this draft, we looking to add top end talent.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

At this point we're looking at a long rebuild so if there was a year to take a risk on someone like Michkov this would be it, especially looking at the alternatives after him.

Been saying this the whole time. We won’t be competitive any time soon. Defense needs help, we need complementary scoring.

Michkov isn't the problem. The problem is the potential of if Russia will not let him leave Russia. It isn't that far away that we've seen Russians trying to defect Russia to play in North America.

This is speculating. Is there any evidence of Russia trying to ban him from coming over? If he really becomes ‘Ovechkin’-esque offensively, he is bound to earn more here than he does in Russia.