Prospect Info: 2023 NHL Draft (mod warning 1st post)

[Anaheim4ever]

Yeah i know its early but 2022 draft discussion started pretty quickly too last year.
So far its #1 Bedard and #2 Mitchkov but after that what are players you are interested in for the Ducks ?
I don't see Bedard falling like Wright did at all. Who will be this years Slaf and Cooley ?

Blanket warning to everyone - the season is over, the active tanking is over, and everyone needs to remember how to get along.

Polite discussions of different viewpoints is fine. Assertions as to who is a good fan, who is a bad fan, and most particularly trolling behavior is going to result in thread bans and warnings. The vast majority of posters here are great about this. There are a few of you, on both sides of this issue, who are trying to start things, and I would advise you to carefully consider if that snarky comment you just made is worth being your last post in a thread. I would advise the folks who think that making an even snarkier response to make that same assessment. Neither of your posts will be seen by anyone else for long regardless.

It is perfectly fine to not understand how anyone could root for the team to lose. It is perfectly fine to not understand how losing has strong benefits to the franchise king term. There are gaping holes in BOTH positions, that may be discussed and debated…POLITELY.

We are all Ducks fans. Time to remember that and stop being at each other’s throats.

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[goonsaredumb]

It's also a weirder sentiment given Verbeek is apparently rebuilding, yet all he's done is trade guys instead of losing them for nothing and sign different UFAs in their place.

Isn't that kind of one of the main goals of a rebuild, trading aging players at the end of their contracts for future assets instead of losing them for nothing and signing guys to fill in gaps on the roster while you rebuild (Strome/Vatrano) or signing guys to flip for more assets in the future (Klingberg), I just don't think anything Murray ever did screamed "I'm rebuilding" but in Verbeeks short time as GM he's done plenty that has screamed "I'm rebuilding" but that's just my opinion

 

[DavidBL]

It isn't a second rebuild. 2019 was the first year not making the playoffs, so we can all agree that that was the very earliest that the "rebuild" started. But they didn't really make rebuilding moves (getting worse to get better longterm) until this past deadline.

Significant moves made since the 18-19 season:
Feb 2019 Montour
Feb 2020 Kase
March 2022 Manson
March 2022 Lindholm
March 2022 Rakell

The Montour and Kase trade were both not made with rebuilding in mind. Montour went to Arb which is the kiss of death with Bob. Kase was dumped to maximize on an injured player.

Neither of those moves were "rebuilding" moves. The first REAL steps to getting worse in order to get better long term was this deadline. We are in year 2 of the real rebuild.

Tampa Bay missed the playoffs 6 times in 7 years at the start of Stevie Ys run, and he had Hedman and Stamkos to prop up that rebuild.
Colorado also missed the playoffs 6 times in 7 years at the start of Sakic's run as GM.

Everyone points out Buffalo and Arizona as the teams that never finish a rebuild, but the teams that are good also went through a rebuild.
Every cup winner since 2009, except for St Louis and Boston, went through a bottom out and rebuild with high picks.

Imo you have defined rebuilding as tanking.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Isn't that kind of one of the main goals of a rebuild, trading aging players at the end of their contracts for future assets instead of losing them for nothing and signing guys to fill in gaps on the roster while you rebuild (Strome/Vatrano) or signing guys to flip for more assets in the future (Klingberg), I just don't think anything Murray ever did screamed "I'm rebuilding" but in Verbeeks short time as GM he's done plenty that has screamed "I'm rebuilding" but that's just my opinion

I think the difference is that he didn't trade veterans because he wanted to get younger, he traded guys because he had to or else risk losing them for nothing. It's impossible to say but it's very possible none of the four guys he's traded would've been if they had more time on their deals. According to him he also would've kept all of them, we know this for sure about Lindholm, had their asks been in what he deemed a more acceptable range. Keep in mind he hasn't traded anyone else.

The part we do know is he signed a bunch of FAs. You could argue Klingberg and maybe Vatrano as just filling out the roster but Strome was a major commitment that, at least to me, in no ways screams rebuilding. Really nothing he has does, at least to me. He looks to be at a stage where he's looking to improve, just maybe not at the expense of the future, which is even a contrast from Murray's last years and more in line with what he did at the beginning of his tenure. Kind of ironic when you think about it.

Imo you have defined rebuilding as tanking.

A lot of people do, which is funny given how few teams in the past have matched the fans' idea of a rebuild. Chicago right now is one of the few I can think of, even Buffalo pre-Eichel wasn't as hardcore as people think.

 

[Gliff]

No I think he just didn't want to use the word rebuild. He retooled the team from 2009-2013, it looked nothing like these last four years. Retooling teams have their main focus on the present, that wasn't remotely what this was. Like at this point you're just argue it isn't rebuilding if you're not trading veteran players, which I kind of get but it's just really close minded.

It's also a weirder sentiment given Verbeek is apparently rebuilding, yet all he's done is trade guys instead of losing them for nothing and sign different UFAs in their place.

Ya that is a big difference. That is literally the difference between retooling and rebuilding. Retooling is changing the faces without getting worse.

Rebuilding is changing the faces and getting worse on purpose.

At least that is how I see it. Anyways, we don't need to go back and forth. I'm fine with agreeing to disagree.

 

[Gliff]

Imo you have defined rebuilding as tanking.

No. Tanking is wanting to lose every game. Rebuilding is getting worse to amass picks and prospects, and yes pick higher. Trading impending UFAs instead of resigning them would be rebuilding.

If he had traded Gibson I would see that more in line with tanking.

 

[DavidBL]

No. Tanking is wanting to lose every game. Rebuilding is getting worse to amass picks and prospects, and yes pick higher. Trading impending UFAs instead of resigning them would be rebuilding.

If he had traded Gibson I would see that more in line with tanking.

"Getting worse to get better." Actively trying to get worse imo is tanking.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

No. Tanking is wanting to lose every game. Rebuilding is getting worse to amass picks and prospects, and yes pick higher. Trading impending UFAs instead of resigning them would be rebuilding.

If he had traded Gibson I would see that more in line with tanking.

Verbeek is on record that his expectations for this season is development. That's obvious code word for tanking.

We are tanking and it's by design. Comparing last year's roster composition to this year's composition, we see the unbalanced makeup. We are 17 games into the season and have yet won a game in regulation time. We are last in the league, we got a lot of picks and prospects for it last year at the TDL. Last year, we picked 10th and tanked hard to get 10th overall. This year, our slot looks to be 1st overall. And we plan on another roster shift again at this year's TDL.

 

[DavidBL]

Verbeek is on record that his expectations for this season is development. That's obvious code word for tanking.

We are tanking and it's by design. Comparing last year's roster composition to this year's composition, we see the unbalanced makeup. We are 17 games into the season and have yet won a game in regulation time. We are last in the league, we got a lot of picks and prospects for it last year at the TDL. Last year, we picked 10th and tanked hard to get 10th overall. This year, our slot looks to be 1st overall. And we plan on another roster shift again at this year's TDL.

Disagree. Development is progress. This team has not progressed vs last year. They're playing better than they did at the start of the year for sure.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Ya that is a big difference. That is literally the difference between retooling and rebuilding. Retooling is changing the faces without getting worse.

Rebuilding is changing the faces and getting worse on purpose.

At least that is how I see it. Anyways, we don't need to go back and forth. I'm fine with agreeing to disagree.

Then how is Verbeek rebuilding to you? He didn't make the team worse on purpose, hell it seems like he tried his reasonable best to even things out. Between the two only Murray has really made the moves that would purposefully make the team worse. I suppose it is early but Verbeek hasn't traded a single player he hasn't felt he had to.

Nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree but this logic just doesn't check out for me.

 

[bsu]

At this point you hope our players aren't gaining bad habits due to lack of system and shitty coaching. Look at the Eakins Oilers if you want to see what I'm talking about.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

At this point you hope our players aren't gaining bad habits due to lack of system and shitty coaching. Look at the Eakins Oilers if you want to see what I'm talking about.

What's one persistent bad habit that can be solely attributed to Dallas Eakins' 113 games behind the Oilers bench?

 

[bsu]

What's one persistent bad habit that can be solely attributed to Dallas Eakins' 113 games behind the Oilers bench?

Lack of physicality/grit, lack of "want", lack of defensive awareness/system and/or taking it seriously, no structure.... then add losing so much and what it does to a player, in any sport.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Lack of physicality/grit, lack of "want", lack of defensive awareness/system and/or taking it seriously, no structure.... then add losing so much and what it does to a player, in any sport.

You're just listing things vague things those teams might have done at the time, not anything specific to any player or anything lasting.

 

[bsu]

You're just listing things vague things those teams might have done at the time, not anything specific to any player or anything lasting.

Cool story bro

When you've coached 339 games and have a .417 win percentage I guess it comes with the territory.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Cool story bro

When you've coached 339 games and have a .417 win percentage I guess it comes with the territory.

I never said anything about Eakins' ability as a coach or remotely how I feel about him, I just asked a question. Shocker that you can't answer.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

And this just makes my point. Bob never wanted to rebuild. He never made the hard decision to get worse with the goal of getting better long term. He wanted to retool and hope that the next wave (Steel, Comtois, Jones, Ritchie, Larsson, Terry) would come along, but they didn't with the exception of Terry after Bob was gone.

This is not a retool. Verbeek is actually rebuilding. Those 3 UFAs being moved was more of an effort to rebuild then Bob did in the 3 and a half years he was GM since the Ducks last made the playoffs.

You want to hear and see rebuild by your own standards in spite of the obvious in record/draft slot.

Draft slot

2019: 9th​

2020: 5th​

2021: 2nd​

In 2018-19, Murray knew not to expect Kesler and Eaves to return to hockey ever again due to medical reasons. You can't expect a huge return from an injured player who will never play hockey again. Murray also was going to buy out Perry (no one was going to trade for Perry at his then current contract) after the season. That's three top-6 forwards gone and won't be replaced with the same talent going into 2019-20.

When Murry took over as interim head coach, he was still trying to be a playoff team until it was evident he couldn't. That's when Murray went rebuild. Anaheim doesn't have much to trade with, but they did with Monty at the TDL. Monty brought back a 1st rd pick and supposedly a top-4D prospect in Guhle.

Murray promoted AHL coach Eakins to the NHL coach for the org. The reason behind that was a majority of the players he will be coaching have already played for him in the AHL. 2019-20 was the first development year due to all the youth on the roster.

At the 2019-20 TDL, we did a lot of trading which included shipping off Ritchie and Kase. The notable return at the TDL was a 1st rd pick and RHD Andersson.

Where from the 2018-19 TDL to the start of the 2021-22 season did you see Murray replace the losses of Kesler, Eaves, Perry, Monty, or Kase with equal, immediate talent? You don't. And it's reflected in the draft slot.

For 2020-21, it was more of the same, another development season. Zegras and Drysdale got their 24 NHL games in the shortened 56-game season. Lundy proved he can stick at center.

We improved our standing in 2021-22 without adding any top-end talents in the off-season for the third consecutive off-season. What funny is Verbeek's TDL caused the Ducks to drop drastically in record while adding picks and prospects. We eventually drafted 10th overall in the 2022 draft. We were that good before the TDL to falter to 10th overall.

Rebuilding/Retooling ===

Retooling: Big to good names acquired in C Strome, RW Vatrano, RD Klingberb, and LD Kulikov

Murray never did acquire big to good players during his rebuild. F Des was the only signing of note.

Rebuilding: Verbeek never replaced the defensive and physical presence lost on the team. Klingberg helped the team get over the salary floor and needed a minute eating d-man on a short contract. Kulikov is on his last year of his contract, whom we acquired as a salary dump. There is no Des replacement.

It's funny how the macro pattern between Murray and Verbeek are alike.

Murray
2018-19 TDL (start of rebuild) got a pick and a prospect

Finished 9th.​

2019-29 TDL : got picks and a prospect

Finished 5th.​

2020-21: no moves

Finished 2nd.​

Verbeek
2021-22 TDL: (reset of rebuild) got picks and prospects

Finished 10th.​

2022-23 TDL: expecting picks and/or prospects

top-3 projected finish​

2023-24 TDL: silf and rico gone?

 

[bsu]

I never said anything about Eakins' ability as a coach or remotely how I feel about him, I just asked a question. Shocker that you can't answer.

I never answer any of questions to your liking, yet I still couldn't careless. Maybe take a hint.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Disagree. Development is progress. This team has not progressed vs last year. They're playing better than they did at the start of the year for sure.

What exactly are you disagreeing about?

You can still develop while tanking. It took years of development for Terry to finally make things click while we were rebuilding. With Terry, Zegras, Lundy, Comtois, and Drysdale developing during COVID season, we finished 2nd worst in the league.

Again, what exactly are you disagreeing about?

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

I never answer any of questions to your liking, yet I still couldn't careless. Maybe take a hint.

If you can't back up any points you try and make and crumble under the slightest scrutiny, and you never can, maybe you should take the hint.

 

[bsu]

If you can't back up any points you try and make and crumble under the slightest scrutiny, and you never can, maybe you should take the hint.

Because at this point, with the way you act on this forum toward me and others, I simply don't care about your thoughts and opinions. Nor find the need to explain anything to you.

I hope your day/life/bitterness improves .

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Because at this point, with the way you act on this forum toward me and others, I simply don't care about your thoughts and opinions. Nor find the need to explain anything to you.

I hope your day gets better.

Or because you can't because you're just talking out of your ass. That's what I was getting at, you were making all of that up.

 

[bsu]

Or because you can't because you're just talking out of your ass. That's what I was getting at, you were making all of that up.

Only in responses to you. Man I never met someone so bitter in my life online. Relax... go get some water or a beer or a blunt maybe then go calm down.

 

[Gliff]

Oh hey look, bickering and name calling... again.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

The prospects thread has turned into argument about twitter and the draft thread is just general bickering.

This draft is too good to be bothered with your bickering. Take it somewhere else. I'm not trying to act like a mod, I just accidentally hit the bold button and it won't turn off.

 

[bsu]

The prospects thread has turned into argument about twitter and the draft thread is just general bickering.

This draft is too good to be bothered with your bickering. Take it somewhere else. I'm not trying to act like a mod, I just accidentally hit the bold button and it won't turn off.

I would take it somewhere else, but when a poster follows you into every thread and acts like that, it gets old.