OT: 2023 MLB Thread
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Machinehead
Fox Mafia Consigliere
Hot take: "just hit the ball the other way" in response to the shift is very annoying.
Yeah, just hit 101 on your hands to opposite field. That's how baseball works.
Yeah, just hit 101 on your hands to opposite field. That's how baseball works.
Yeah. You can only do so much to go the other way when they're pitching you to hit into the shift.
Like I had said on Twitter, Ryan Zimmerman was talking about how all the top young ball players are taught almost exclusively to pull the ball and hit it into the air. So from age 10-25 these guys are taught to do a particular thing, and then people are surprised when they can't suddenly morph into a slap hitter who goes the other way, or when they can't drop down a bunt after having literally not bunted in five years. And, like you said, when facing an endless stream of dudes who throw 100 with movement.
Hitting a baseball is a uniquely hard skill that even the best in the world fail at 75 out of 100 times. I think people lose sight of just how hard it is.
jerseyjinx94
I jinx players.
Except there are tons of examples of players who adjust and hit the ball the other way. It's part of the basic fundamentals of the sport. If they play you to pull every AB, maybe you should be focusing on how to hit the ball the other way to keep them honest. It's not a crazy ask/concept
will1066
If you score four, you better f'n win the game
- Oct 12, 2008
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They shouldn't be taught that way then, perhaps. The best, classic hitters through the history of MLB have never been exclusively pull hitters.
I'm not saying it's a crazy concept, I'm just saying it's much harder in practice than in theory. If every player could just magically learn to slap the ball the other way, eliminating the shift and dramatically increasing their BA, don't you think everyone would do it? Of course there are guys who excel at the bat-to-ball skill and can make that adjustment more easily, but there are just as many, if not more, guys who can't.
When you're not taught to go the other way, go back up the middle, "hit it where it's pitched" or however you want to phrase it, then it's no longer fundamental.
I agree that it probably shouldn't be taught that way. But it is, which just reinforces the problem. It's not just a problem with current major leaguers, but with a lot of the guys coaching them, and unfortunately, with a lot of the guys coming up through the minors. It's all about optimizing launch angle and maximizing exit velo, which has all the kids trying to put the ball in the air.
I remember an article about Jeff McNeil, who chokes up so much he's basically halfway up the bat, and who has some of the best contact skills on the Mets. He was talking about he knows when he's going good, because he's hitting fly balls to right. He knows he's off when he's hitting it on the ground, because, in his words, ground balls in the majors are outs.
SA16
Sixstring
Well that's a weird comment because the league average BABIP on ground balls is much higher than that of fly balls. It's just they're almost exclusively singles compared to the fly balls which are much more often extra base hits
Yes, it is sort of weird. I think though that it reflects what I said above, that that's what the guys come up conditioned to do--pull the ball, put it in the air. I think when you hear it from a guy like McNeil who is known for his contact skills and not his power, it shows shows how prevalent that mentality is.
will1066
If you score four, you better f'n win the game
- Oct 12, 2008
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For every Ted Williams, there's a Tony Gwynn, a Rod Carew, Ichiro Suzuki, Jeter, even our own Keith, John Olerud. Even Piazza drove the opposite field with power.
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- Jan 18, 2012
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You hit the ball where it's pitched.
The shift works because everybody's hips fly open, attempting to pull all pitches.
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Bob Richards
Mr. Mojo Risin'
Players conform to the league environments that they play in.
If Tony Gwynn was a young player in 2022 he wouldn’t be hitting .375 every year on a billion singles. He’d be pulling baseballs, hitting for power and getting screamed at by fans for getting out from hitting into the shift.
If Tony Gwynn was a young player in 2022 he wouldn’t be hitting .375 every year on a billion singles. He’d be pulling baseballs, hitting for power and getting screamed at by fans for getting out from hitting into the shift.
will1066
If you score four, you better f'n win the game
- Oct 12, 2008
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Larrybiv
We're CLEAN, we PROMISE!
And if they weren't "taught that" and were directed into making contact, protecting and KNOWING the plate and going the other way......they would be better all around "hitters" not swingers.
Whatever happened to this? And when they get a little comfy in the bigs they "learn" how to start "looking in" and turning on them.
Use Nimmo as an example. A "punch and judy" hitter that seeks walks. Never used to swing at the 1st pitch, and now he does.
Looks in on "hitters counts" but still gets his walks. Situational hitting is what this team is all about. The Amazin's are back and better than ever.
Guillorme......going the other way all year and FINALLY the league caught wind and now pitching him inside. He has to adjust and start turning on those inside pitches.
Larrybiv
We're CLEAN, we PROMISE!
No "trap game or even close to a letdown. You had better believe that Buck was keeping them "focused" at the job and game at hand.
No looking forward, only WE can do that. With that said.....
Phillies- 3 home games
Atlanta- 4 away
Phillies- 4 away
Yankees- 2 "away"
Our Mets don't have to prove anything, but these next 13 games will be very exciting and could "finish off" Atlanta for all intents and purposes (taking 3 of 4) as the schedule gets really soft afterwards.
Being very modest and NOT asking for the world......if we go 7-6 that would be just okay. 8-5 or anything better is GRAVY!!!
No looking forward, only WE can do that. With that said.....
Phillies- 3 home games
Atlanta- 4 away
Phillies- 4 away
Yankees- 2 "away"
Our Mets don't have to prove anything, but these next 13 games will be very exciting and could "finish off" Atlanta for all intents and purposes (taking 3 of 4) as the schedule gets really soft afterwards.
Being very modest and NOT asking for the world......if we go 7-6 that would be just okay. 8-5 or anything better is GRAVY!!!
- Jan 18, 2012
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- 54,287
The game is played completely different to how I was taught.. maybe it's why I don't watch as much anymore.
The basic fundamentals do not exist. From a young child you're taught to swing down on the ball and stay inside it
I'd be practicing bunting.... Right down the open line.. Get it hard enough and it's a double. In the day and age that worships 'OBP/OBPS' it's literally free.... being handed to you. I know the old generations would be eating it up.
Bob Richards
Mr. Mojo Risin'
It's not. It's wanting Chytil to not try to skate through 4 players and pass to an open guy instead. In this case, Ted Williams = Connor McDavid. They can do what they want.
JimmyG89
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- May 1, 2010
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The reason the Mets strategy works for them is that they have players with the ability to foul off those tough pitches instead of missing them. Over time, the pitcher is going to miss his spot eventually.
The evolution of the game is that pitchers are able to hit spots that cause the batter to put the ball in play in a specific area of the field or the batter will flat out miss the pitch. When you have a cutter running in at 98 on the hands, the only way to hit it is to pull it. What the Mets are doing is fouling that pitch off. When the pitcher misses their spot away, they go with it and it is viewed as "beating the shift".
It is a philosophy, but I don't think many teams can pull it off. They also have multiple players that know the strikezone. They actually work pitchers like the Yankees used to. People can say that it doesn't work in the playoffs, but burning through starters and forcing teams to use their pen for 12 outs every game is a lot, even with an extra arm in the pen, plus if you do get to the starter, they're out in the 3rd like Strider was on Sunday.
The evolution of the game is that pitchers are able to hit spots that cause the batter to put the ball in play in a specific area of the field or the batter will flat out miss the pitch. When you have a cutter running in at 98 on the hands, the only way to hit it is to pull it. What the Mets are doing is fouling that pitch off. When the pitcher misses their spot away, they go with it and it is viewed as "beating the shift".
It is a philosophy, but I don't think many teams can pull it off. They also have multiple players that know the strikezone. They actually work pitchers like the Yankees used to. People can say that it doesn't work in the playoffs, but burning through starters and forcing teams to use their pen for 12 outs every game is a lot, even with an extra arm in the pen, plus if you do get to the starter, they're out in the 3rd like Strider was on Sunday.
"“I didn’t change my game to be a three-true-outcomes guy. I’ve been a three-true-outcomes guy since I was 10 years old. When I started hearing about advanced stats more and more, I liked it because it actually made me seem like a good player when everybody was saying I’m not. They have metrics now to show there’s more than this guy’s game than just looking at the scoreboard and seeing .190.”" -- Joey Gallo.
- Jan 18, 2012
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- 54,287
yeah no.
rolling over on outside pitches is a fundamental issue plaguing modern day MLB
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will1066
If you score four, you better f'n win the game
- Oct 12, 2008
- 52,963
- 76,522
I would have loved me some Mike Piazza exit velocities. He scorched the ball the other way and well into opposite field stands and bullpens. His opposite field stroke is the prettiest I ever saw. That sound coming off the bat, I'll never forget it.
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