2023 Free Agency/UFA Targets

[Holden Caufield]

My wish list for the off-season:

9 OA for signed Debrincat 8.5 mil/8 years. 17 OA+Zadina for Lindholm and extend him 8x7. Sign Bertuzzi 6.5 mil/6 years. Bring Wallinder over.

1. We would laugh at Ottawa.
2. Calgary would laugh at us.
3. No way Bertuzzi is coming back

 

[SMP17]

As said above, you cannot use the 9OA in a trade for DeBrincat. The Sens already filed for arbitration, meaning there's a timeline on a sign and trade or else he's locked in for the year, becoming a rental. Which to me means the Wings don't need to do anything drastic since that would significantly lower his trade value by end of August. If he ends up making it here, they can work something out for the 17th OA + a prospect or something along those lines. Ottawa will try and recoup as much of that trade they made with the 7OA + 2nd but at this point it's looking like a failure for them. They don't even have a pick until the 4th round this year in a *loaded draft*, the Sens should be the desperate team, not the Wings.

*If he does go through the whole arb process then any future first rounder should be 100% off the table.*

 

[Winger98]

As said above, you cannot use the 9OA in a trade for DeBrincat. The Sens already filed for arbitration, meaning there's a timeline on a sign and trade or else he's locked in for the year, becoming a rental. Which to me means the Wings don't need to do anything drastic since that would significantly lower his trade value by end of August. If he ends up making it here, they can work something out for the 17th OA + a prospect or something along those lines. Ottawa will try and recoup as much of that trade they made with the 7OA + 2nd but at this point it's looking like a failure for them. They don't even have a pick until the 4th round this year in a *loaded draft*, the Sens should be the desperate team, not the Wings.

*If he does go through the whole arb process then any future first rounder should be 100% off the table.*

I don't think going through arbitration will hurt his value much and even if teams can't formally talk to Debrincat before dealing for him, I have to believe they will back channel it a bit and see the likelihood of being able to lock him up if they do deal for him.

Also, unless Debrincat crashes and burns this year, Ottawa would likely be able to grab a 1st of some sort for him as a rental. Not much more, and it's likely a late 1st, but if he's pacing for 30+ goals that's a pretty conservative price, imo.

 

[RedHawkDown]

My wish list for the off-season:

9 OA for signed Debrincat 8.5 mil/8 years. 17 OA+Zadina for Lindholm and extend him 8x7. Sign Bertuzzi 6.5 mil/6 years. Bring Wallinder over.

Roll into next season with Kubalik-Larkin-Debrincat, Bertuzzi-Lindholm-Raymond, Berggren-Copp-Perron, Soderblom-Kasper-Rasmussen at forward and Seider-Walman, Edvinsson-Maatta, Chiarot-Wallinder on defense. You would still have room to gradually raise RFA salaries as time goes on and your highest paid player would only be at 8.7 million with an increasing cap; you would have a core group of players locked up for 6-8 years.

That team makes the playoffs and competes.

This team makes the playoffs and gets destroyed.

 

[SMP17]

I don't think going through arbitration will hurt his value much and even if teams can't formally talk to Debrincat before dealing for him, I have to believe they will back channel it a bit and see the likelihood of being able to lock him up if they do deal for him.

Also, unless Debrincat crashes and burns this year, Ottawa would likely be able to grab a 1st of some sort for him as a rental. Not much more, and it's likely a late 1st, but if he's pacing for 30+ goals that's a pretty conservative price, imo.

Once the arb goes through he’s not able to do a sign and trade so at that point he’s a rental. That will definitely impact his value, so basically someone does the 8 year deal before arb or he’s being traded as a rental for the year and likely navigating free agency afterwards.

 

[Winger98]

Once the arb goes through he’s not able to do a sign and trade so at that point he’s a rental. That will definitely impact his value, so basically someone does the 8 year deal before arb or he’s being traded as a rental for the year and likely navigating free agency afterwards.

If any team gives up anything significant for Debrincat, it's because they know he's signing with them afterwards. Is it strictly legal with the league's rules? No, but everyone knows it happens. And that's assuming Ottawa doesn't give teams permission to talk to him or permission to Debrincat's agent to shop him around before dealing him.

If Ottawa doesn't deal him this summer, they'll deal him at the deadline where a 1st for a guy capable of putting 30 goals on the board shouldn't shock anyone.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Once the arb goes through he’s not able to do a sign and trade so at that point he’s a rental. That will definitely impact his value, so basically someone does the 8 year deal before arb or he’s being traded as a rental for the year and likely navigating free agency afterwards.

The arbitration is just an extension for ottawa to get a deal done.

I don't see him making it to actual arbitration and still be traded TBH.

 

[DamonDRW]

Can people stop here with DeBrincat? Every second post is about how to trade for him and then sign for 9M. He is good. Do you remember Sheppard, Kozlov, Nyquist? Where these guys would be without Yzerman, Fedorov, and Datsyuk/Zetterberg feeding them? We don't have a single center even remotely comparable to those guys.

Any rebuild always starts with defs and centers. The rest is not that important. We've got defs, now we need centers. As many as we can draft.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Can people stop here with DeBrincat? Every second post is about how to trade for him and then sign for 9M. He is good. Do you remember Sheppard, Kozlov, Nyquist? Where these guys would be without Yzerman, Fedorov, and Datsyuk/Zetterberg feeding them? We don't have a single center even remotely comparable to those guys.

Any rebuild always starts with defs and centers. The rest is not that important. We've got defs, now we need centers. As many as we can draft.

don't see how larkin is not evolving to a zetterberg type...he protects the puck, hustles, defensively sound...how does he not fit the bill for debrincat.

 

[SoupNazi]

Can people stop here with DeBrincat? Every second post is about how to trade for him and then sign for 9M. He is good. Do you remember Sheppard, Kozlov, Nyquist? Where these guys would be without Yzerman, Fedorov, and Datsyuk/Zetterberg feeding them? We don't have a single center even remotely comparable to those guys.

Any rebuild always starts with defs and centers. The rest is not that important. We've got defs, now we need centers. As many as we can draft.

This is a discussion board. That's allowed.

 

[DamonDRW]

don't see how larkin is not evolving to a zetterberg type...he protects the puck, hustles, defensively sound...how does he not fit the bill for debrincat.

He is closest comparable but if you've seen Zetterberg you immediately realize he was way more than that when he was in his late 20s.

This is a discussion board. That's allowed.

I understand that but 20 pages of two persons forcing this midget? Cmon. There is overall understanding how a Stanley Cup winning team is built. And it is not centered on smallish wingers.

 

[Detroit Knights]

He is closest comparable but if you've seen Zetterberg you immediately realize he was way more than that when he was in his late 20s.


I understand that but 20 pages of two persons forcing this midget? Cmon. There is overall understanding how a Stanley Cup winning team is built. And it is not centered on smallish wingers.

marchessault, cirelli, yanni gourde, tyler johnson, kucherov, Girard, cogliano.........

all are 5'11'' or lower, mostly 5'10'' and 5'9''. Yes Debrincat is 5'7 or 8'' but those are all considered short players that have won in the past 3 years.

All of these players were surrounded by bigger players, but they definitely were considered short.

 

[norrisnick]

marchessault, cirelli, yanni gourde, tyler johnson, kucherov, Girard, cogliano.........

all are 5'11'' or lower, mostly 5'10'' and 5'9''. Yes Debrincat is 5'7 or 8'' but those are all considered short players that have won in the past 3 years.

All of these players were surrounded by bigger players, but they definitely were considered short.

Marchessault, Gourde, Johnson, Girard all make $5M. Cirelli makes $6.25M Cogliano made $1M and Kucherov is underpaid at $9.5M.

What comparison to DeBrincat are you trying to make here?

No one is going to bat an eye if we trade a 2nd and Veleno for DeBrincat extended at $5.75M...

 

[Detroit Knights]

Marchessault, Gourde, Johnson, Girard all make $5M. Cirelli makes $6.25M Cogliano made $1M and Kucherov is underpaid at $9.5M.

What comparison to DeBrincat are you trying to make here?

No one is going to bat an eye if we trade a 2nd and Veleno for DeBrincat extended at $5.75M...

Gourde signed contract started 2019-20 season
Johnson signed contract started in 2017-18 season
Girard signed contract started in 2020-21 season
Cogliano was an example of a player that was small on a cup team, the whole premise of the arguement I was given from the other poster.....
Kucherov signed his contract in 2019-20 season

Gourde and Johnson were paid fair market at the time (maybe took a pay cut to stay with TBL but I don't have proof of that), Girard has outperformed his contract judging by some of the avalanche posters (he's also on defense...), cirelli just signed his on a team that has overpaid multiple players so can only assume he took less to stay on a hypothetical stacked team, cogliano see above, kucherov as you said is wildly underpaid.

Regardless the original argument from the poster I was responding to essentially was saying cup winning teams do not have small forwards. That was their argument against Debrincat. I gave examples off the top of my head from smaller players on the past 4 cup winning teams. That is the argument. Not how much they are getting paid in relation to their size. Did you follow what that guy said and what I responded or did you come in the middle of it thinking you knew what was going on?

Also, it matters a great deal when the players I came up with signed their contracts. Include inflation, going rate of players in their class now, salary cap changes (not much but still went up) and the current climate around signing players. Johnson wouldn't get near 9 mil (i concede). Girard? Yeah he would be pretty close to 8, Gourde could be up there as well. Cirelli? I did delete his name because i researched it and he is taller than i expected (he's 6'0''). Kucherov would be close to 11-13 mil a season and I am sure you could somewhat agree on that.

The point is, yes, having taller, bigger players help you in the playoffs due to a variety of reasons and I think that would be great for our team to continue to build; however, there have always been smaller forwards on the team. I mean, Montreal didn't win but they had Caufield, Gallagher, Byron, Tatar, and suzuki. They got to the finals with those players as key contributors.

 

[norrisnick]

Gourde signed contract started 2019-20 season
Johnson signed contract started in 2017-18 season
Girard signed contract started in 2020-21 season
Cogliano was an example of a player that was small on a cup team, the whole premise of the arguement I was given from the other poster.....
Kucherov signed his contract in 2019-20 season

Gourde and Johnson were paid fair market at the time (maybe took a pay cut to stay with TBL but I don't have proof of that), Girard has outperformed his contract judging by some of the avalanche posters (he's also on defense...), cirelli just signed his on a team that has overpaid multiple players so can only assume he took less to stay on a hypothetical stacked team, cogliano see above, kucherov as you said is wildly underpaid.

Regardless the original argument from the poster I was responding to essentially was saying cup winning teams do not have small forwards. That was their argument against Debrincat. I gave examples off the top of my head from smaller players on the past 4 cup winning teams. That is the argument. Not how much they are getting paid in relation to their size. Did you follow what that guy said and what I responded or did you come in the middle of it thinking you knew what was going on?

Also, it matters a great deal when the players I came up with signed their contracts. Include inflation, going rate of players in their class now, salary cap changes (not much but still went up) and the current climate around signing players. Johnson wouldn't get near 9 mil (i concede). Girard? Yeah he would be pretty close to 8, Gourde could be up there as well. Cirelli? I did delete his name because i researched it and he is taller than i expected (he's 6'0''). Kucherov would be close to 11-13 mil a season and I am sure you could somewhat agree on that.

The point is, yes, having taller, bigger players help you in the playoffs due to a variety of reasons and I think that would be great for our team to continue to build; however, there have always been smaller forwards on the team. I mean, Montreal didn't win but they had Caufield, Gallagher, Byron, Tatar, and suzuki. They got to the finals with those players as key contributors.

I did. Did you? The centers are the key (Kucherov being the exception that DeBrincat doesn't come close to) and diminutive wingers can follow.

 

[Detroit Knights]

I did. Did you? The centers are the key (Kucherov being the exception that DeBrincat doesn't come close to) and diminutive wingers can follow.

lol, okay. what does centers have to do with what I responded to that other poster was saying? Literally nothing, but please let me know, since you obviously understood the arguments presented before you chimed in.

 

[norrisnick]

Can people stop here with DeBrincat? Every second post is about how to trade for him and then sign for 9M. He is good. Do you remember Sheppard, Kozlov, Nyquist? Where these guys would be without Yzerman, Fedorov, and Datsyuk/Zetterberg feeding them? We don't have a single center even remotely comparable to those guys.

Any rebuild always starts with defs and centers. The rest is not that important. We've got defs, now we need centers. As many as we can draft.

He is closest comparable but if you've seen Zetterberg you immediately realize he was way more than that when he was in his late 20s.


I understand that but 20 pages of two persons forcing this midget? Cmon. There is overall understanding how a Stanley Cup winning team is built. And it is not centered on smallish wingers.

lol, okay. what does centers have to do with what I responded to that other poster was saying? Literally nothing, but please let me know, since you obviously understood the arguments presented before you chimed in.

So Damon wasn't talking about the need for centers vs small wingers? Is this another troll job by me because you aren't reading what is written?

 

[Gniwder]

No one is going to bat an eye if we trade a 2nd and Veleno for DeBrincat extended at $5.75M...

Bat an eye?!?! Shit I'd be celebrating if that happened. Signing DeBrincat for $100k more than Copp would make Stevie the GM of the year, especially if he acquired him for peanuts.

Back to reality, DeBrincat will cost at least the Wings' 1st plus prospects (or roster player like Ray) and cost $8M or more. No thanks.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Bat an eye?!?! Shit I'd be celebrating if that happened. Signing DeBrincat for $100k more than Copp would make Stevie the GM of the year, especially if he acquired him for peanuts.

Back to reality, DeBrincat will cost at least the Wings' 1st plus prospects (or roster player like Ray) and cost $8M or more. No thanks.

there is no reality on earth that it would take raymond + 1st rounder + prospect to get an unsigned, RFA debrincat after saying he won't sign with his current team. so no, that is not back to reality kind sir.

 

[Gniwder]

there is no reality on earth that it would take raymond + 1st rounder + prospect to get an unsigned, RFA debrincat after saying he won't sign with his current team. so no, that is not back to reality kind sir.

Yeah, and Tkachuk will get traded for peanuts. Didn't we go through that last offseason?

Granted Tkachuk is significantly better than Debrincat in almost every aspect of the game, so the return won't be as good, but certainly not peanuts.

Also I said 1st plus prospect OR Ray, not AND. That's a huge difference.


Edit: UFA Bertuzzi was worth a 1st and 4th, I don't understand how people think Debrincat would go for anything less than that. Otherwise they can just hold him until TDL (and retain salary if necessary), like the Meier trade.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Yeah, and Tkachuk will get traded for peanuts. Didn't we go through that last offseason?

Granted Tkachuk is significantly better than Debrincat in almost every aspect of the game, so the return won't be as good, but certainly not peanuts.

Also I said 1st plus prospect OR Ray, not AND. That's a huge difference.


Edit: UFA Bertuzzi was worth a 1st and 4th, I don't understand how people think Debrincat would go for anything less than that. Otherwise they can just hold him until TDL (and retain salary if necessary), like the Meier trade.

The difference between bert and debrincat is a couple points:

1: trade deadline deals are different than Draft day, which are also different than july 1 deals
2: By the time bert was traded, there were not many guys left that boston could choose from with the same type of play style bert has. Also, Yzerman going to Yzerman

Also, I see what you are saying about the OR, I hear you on that.

Lastly, Ottawa has no leverage in this situation. They have a player who is RFA, publicly said he does not want to play for Ottawa at all, and his QO is hindering trade partners. You bring up Tkachuk and say he is miles better than debrincat (won't debate that with you) but he had a QO of 9 million, just like debrincat, but he had 100 point seasons. Debrincat doesn't, he focuses on goal scoring (of which we need mercifully as a side note). Another reason why this is different is because a lot of contending teams have almost no cap space for their own players they want to sign, not to mention taking on a guy that will most likely get 8-9 mil. We can.

Also, news came out and said multiple teams are committing to zadina-level players and picks. So there's that.

 

[SMP17]

If any team gives up anything significant for Debrincat, it's because they know he's signing with them afterwards. Is it strictly legal with the league's rules? No, but everyone knows it happens. And that's assuming Ottawa doesn't give teams permission to talk to him or permission to Debrincat's agent to shop him around before dealing him.

If Ottawa doesn't deal him this summer, they'll deal him at the deadline where a 1st for a guy capable of putting 30 goals on the board shouldn't shock anyone.

You don’t give up significant assets for something unless the deal is done with the trade. If he’s not able to sign an extension until after that arb year is done, a lot can happen in-between that point and free agency. There’s no point in risking a verbal agreement and letting it sit from the trade deadline until July. The value would come down, if anyone could point to this exact scenario playing out where someone goes through an arb year and a team gives up significant assets waiting for the player to re-sign, I’d like to see a few examples.

 

[Snuggs]

The difference between bert and debrincat is a couple points:

1: trade deadline deals are different than Draft day, which are also different than july 1 deals
2: By the time bert was traded, there were not many guys left that boston could choose from with the same type of play style bert has. Also, Yzerman going to Yzerman

Also, I see what you are saying about the OR, I hear you on that.

Lastly, Ottawa has no leverage in this situation. They have a player who is RFA, publicly said he does not want to play for Ottawa at all, and his QO is hindering trade partners. You bring up Tkachuk and say he is miles better than debrincat (won't debate that with you) but he had a QO of 9 million, just like debrincat, but he had 100 point seasons. Debrincat doesn't, he focuses on goal scoring (of which we need mercifully as a side note). Another reason why this is different is because a lot of contending teams have almost no cap space for their own players they want to sign, not to mention taking on a guy that will most likely get 8-9 mil. We can.

Also, news came out and said multiple teams are committing to zadina-level players and picks. So there's that.

I'd disagree highly Ottawa has no leverage. They can sign DeBrincat to the 1year 9 mill, see if they're a playoff team, and get a Timo Meier type deal in return at the TDL if they're not.

ONLY risk is injury while playing. They're at the point where it's time to make the playoffs and not worry about the 17th pick and zadina/prospect. If an offer comes up that's pretty good/better then hey sure, but playoffs and more in Ottawa is more important than a minor return for DeBrincat because he won't extend.

Speaking of Bertuzzi it's almost exactly the same playbook just more money. Heck, Bertuzzi was even hurt most of the year and put up one of his worst seasons. Team in the talks for a cup run looking to go over the hump at the TDL would give up a lot for him.

 

[norrisnick]

I'd disagree highly Ottawa has no leverage. They can sign DeBrincat to the 1year 9 mill, see if they're a playoff team, and get a Timo Meier type deal in return at the TDL.

ONLY risk is injury while playing.

Speaking of Bertuzzi it's almost exactly the same playbook just more money. Heck, Bertuzzi was even hurt most of the year and put up one of his worst seasons.

Speaking of Bertuzzi a TDL deal for DeBrincat would look more like his than Timo Meier's. Timo was a pending RFA, not UFA which DeBrincat would be next summer. That and Timo has a much more sought after play style with his physical edge even with DeBrincat's edge in production.

 

[Snuggs]

Speaking of Bertuzzi a TDL deal for DeBrincat would look more like his than Timo Meier's. Timo was a pending RFA, not UFA which DeBrincat would be next summer. That and Timo has a much more sought after play style with his physical edge even with DeBrincat's edge in production.

I'm actually not going to disagree. Which should be fine since for Ottawa that's essentially the same value as now most "fans" like to offer. Only caveat moving forward would be how many goals he puts up.

Idk his real value, GM's could be higher/lower just gauging off recent post by fans. Just, imo, he won't be moved now for that price when that's almost the going rate at any TDL for a good goal scorer in their 20's. He's worth even more if Ottawa can get him somewhere he'll extend.

He'll be worth more to Ottawa for one year even if it means a playoff run/appearance.