2023 Draft Discussion

[lilidk]

U18 is coming next month and it will change lots of things. At the moment outside top five I see about 20 guys we should target with our first 2picks. I expect Yzerman will trade up.
If I draft today I d get Leonard and Musty in the first round

 

[GarlicbreadTB]

This makes me feel so much better about our North American scouting. And of course Stevie freaking Yzerman as our GM. Hakan's legend grows, which I frankly thought was impossible. We're lucky he stuck around when he was being badly underutilized during the Holland era. That indicates he has very little ego which is surprising and awesome given how good he is at his job.

He mentioned in an other interview I saw that he had offers from both Jim Nill and Ken Holland to tag along to Dallas and Edmonton if he wanted to.

 

[GarlicbreadTB]

I wonder how has that North American drafting gone so much better on latest years....

Suddenly there's also great Draper-picks!

Håkan deserves a statue on LCA, some day.

Laughed for that nickname "Sly". Does that mean Stallone?

Sly as in like mysterious, hard to read etc.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

This makes me feel so much better about our North American scouting. And of course Stevie freaking Yzerman as our GM. Hakan's legend grows, which I frankly thought was impossible. We're lucky he stuck around when he was being badly underutilized during the Holland era. That indicates he has very little ego which is surprising and awesome given how good he is at his job.

Hakan is extremely overrated around these parts. If he is now solely responsible for cross-over scouting, I think we should just can the rest of the scouting staff (i.e. "synergies") and employ him as our sole scout. Then everyone we take will be a "Hakan Pick."

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

You seem well versed and informed. Assuming we stay at our current draft position; is there a player better than Larkin in terms of scoring available?

And what’s your outlook on Kaper? Cuz I think he’ll provide Larkin like value at best. Form what I’ve seen I think of him more like a 60pts guy with good forechecking and some snarl. But haven’t seen him much.

Someone who will score more goals? Probably, but I can't say with any certainty who that is. I think Kasper could develop into a player who is roughly similar in quality to Larkin, although I think his game is slightly different.
If we walked away with a solid top-six forward at 8 or 9, I would be happy.

 

[Henkka]

Hakan is extremely overrated around these parts. If he is now solely responsible for cross-over scouting, I think we should just can the rest of the scouting staff (i.e. "synergies") and employ him as our sole scout. Then everyone we take will be a "Hakan Pick."

Andersson pretty much shares his view, and our other scouts will learn from him, etc. That's what Directors do.

He is the most important man on the scouting staff, for sure. Has always been. Picks are maybe not from him, but he has overall impact there.

Håkan Andersson can never be overrated. Never. His track record is just insane.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Andersson pretty much shares his view, and our other scouts will learn from him, etc. That's what Directors do.

He is the most important man on the scouting staff, for sure. Has always been. Picks are maybe not from him, but he has overall impact there.

Håkan Andersson can never be overrated. Never. His track record is just insane.

Like I said, overrated. He is a good, above-average scout but far from a demigod. His recent track record looks pretty ordinary to be honest unless we want to argue he alone strong-armed the brass into taking Edvinsson, Seider and Raymond (three EXTREMELY well-known draft eligibles).

 

[wingerdinger]

Like I said, overrated. He is a good, above-average scout but far from a demigod. His recent track record looks pretty ordinary to be honest unless we want to argue he alone strong-armed the brass into taking Edvinsson, Seider and Raymond (three EXTREMELY well-known draft eligibles).

Seider was anything but well-known his draft year.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Seider was anything but well-known his draft year.

What the f*** are you talking about? Everyone on his board knew who he was. Don't tell me a player isn't well known when every public scout has him ranked in the first round.

Welcome to 2023. No player is truly hidden anymore.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Seider was anything but well-known his draft year.

Yeah players don't go in the first round, let alone the top 10 without every single amateur scout and team executive knowing about him.

You can argue that people didn't know who he was going to become, but they knew who he was. And we've heard enough from Draper that Seider really wasn't a Hakan bang the table guy. Multiple people in the organization loved him as a prospect. So it wouldn't change the fact that Hakan isn't solely responsible for him being drafted.

The two recent top Swedes, maybe, but again, talking about top 10, damn near lottery picks. That isn't Hakan going on a whim.

The players who might be true Hakan called his shot picks are Johansson, Wallinder, and Berggren. And while exciting, they haven't entered the realm of being anything more than middle of the pack NHL players.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Button has some unique insights often but his rankings are a bit erratic. He’s not as good as Bob McKenzie but I still respect his work more than Wheeler.

Button is Wheeler and Wheeler is Button. Neither of them are completely incorrect, both have opinions worth listening to help fully establish the picture of a prospect.

To me they both develop soft spots for players early and have a hard time shaking their first impressions and end up overrating them through the entire draft process. Or, they don't subscribe to the same thinking that others have when they see high end NHL traits and continue to undersell prospects for things that are hard to argue.

It took really until Seider made it into the NHL before Button stopped calling him Brandon Carlo.

What you have in Wheeler and Button are two guys that get set aside their biases. It's okay to have favorites, but when you cover prospects, you can't be unwilling to see trends or areas you went astray.

 

[Frk It]

Button is Wheeler and Wheeler is Button. Neither of them are completely incorrect, both have opinions worth listening to help fully establish the picture of a prospect.

To me they both develop soft spots for players early and have a hard time shaking their first impressions and end up overrating them through the entire draft process. Or, they don't subscribe to the same thinking that others have when they see high end NHL traits and continue to undersell prospects for things that are hard to argue.

It took really until Seider made it into the NHL before Button stopped calling him Brandon Carlo.

What you have in Wheeler and Button are two guys that get set aside their biases. It's okay to have favorites, but when you cover prospects, you can't be unwilling to see trends or areas you went astray.

I mean, Button has years of being employed by NHL teams as a scout and GM.

People like to shit on him when he strays from the consensus, but he has pretty legit credentials. And if you listen to him talk about the reasoning for his rankings they usually make sense. Also people don’t realize how much each teams draft board differs and look at any difference of opinions as criminal.

The Wings deserve a ton of credit for their projection on Seider, but he was not a guy showing offense like that in his draft year playing a limited role in the DEL.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I mean, Button has years of being employed by NHL teams as a scout and GM.

People like to shit on him when he strays from the consensus, but he has pretty legit credentials. And if you listen to him talk about the reasoning for his rankings they usually make sense. Also people don’t realize how much each teams draft board differs and look at any difference of opinions as criminal.

The Wings deserve a ton of credit for their projection on Seider, but he was not a guy showing offense like that in his draft year playing a limited role in the DEL.

None that really changes my point though. It's still true that they develop unwavering opinions on certain players that don't die easily. They are both worth listening to and trying to see their perspective to build up an entire profile of various prospects.

It's not that either of them are wrong for having differing opinions, it's how they continue to justify them despite more information becoming available.

 

[Frk It]

None that really changes my point though. It's still true that they develop unwavering opinions on certain players that don't die easily. They are both worth listening to and trying to see their perspective to build up an entire profile of various prospects.

It's not that either of them are wrong for having differing opinions, it's how they continue to justify them despite more information becoming available.

I value what he has to say much more than Wheeler, but to each their own.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I value what he has to say much more than Wheeler, but to each their own.

Maybe in a sense that he comes from a background of an NHL organization and values that may align more with what other GMs are thinking, but in terms of identifying attributes and skill sets and knowing what works in the NHL...yeah there just isn't a difference in my eyes.

Unless the eyes belong to MBH, I believe that most people with enough viewings and a basic grasp on what things *should* look like in a good prospect, they can come to many similar conclusions. How you weight something obviously becomes the biggest point of disagreement.

 

[wingerdinger]

What the f*** are you talking about? Everyone on his board knew who he was. Don't tell me a player isn't well known when every public scout has him ranked in the first round.

Welcome to 2023. No player is truly hidden anymore.

lol, there's a difference between knowing a guys name and knowing a guys game. Youre telling me that this whole board caught even a single game of Seider's in the german league. Im willing to bet most of this have never watched a DEL match in their life. Seider was projective everywhere as a 2nd rounder to mid 1st round pick. Not a potential top 10 pick. So no there still are players that do go under the radar.

 

[wingerdinger]

Yeah players don't go in the first round, let alone the top 10 without every single amateur scout and team executive knowing about him.

You can argue that people didn't know who he was going to become, but they knew who he was. And we've heard enough from Draper that Seider really wasn't a Hakan bang the table guy. Multiple people in the organization loved him as a prospect. So it wouldn't change the fact that Hakan isn't solely responsible for him being drafted.

The two recent top Swedes, maybe, but again, talking about top 10, damn near lottery picks. That isn't Hakan going on a whim.

The players who might be true Hakan called his shot picks are Johansson, Wallinder, and Berggren. And while exciting, they haven't entered the realm of being anything more than middle of the pack NHL players.

i honestly think yzerman should get most of the credit for the seider pick, i remember some tweets of yzerman going over to germany himself. Of course Seider was well scouted within the Wings org, but definitely by the reaction the wings got after picking seider on draft day he was an off the board under the radar going out on a limb pick.

 

[WingsToPick4th]

as of now we are picking 8th and 19th overall
Will Smith and Perreault dream draft at these picks?

 

[Frk It]

Maybe in a sense that he comes from a background of an NHL organization and values that may align more with what other GMs are thinking, but in terms of identifying attributes and skill sets and knowing what works in the NHL...yeah there just isn't a difference in my eyes.

Unless the eyes belong to MBH, I believe that most people with enough viewings and a basic grasp on what things *should* look like in a good prospect, they can come to many similar conclusions. How you weight something obviously becomes the biggest point of disagreement.

Your point that they are both reluctant to move off their initial takes, I understand. That's probably true. I know I am also kind of the same way when I watch players. I feel like a lot of time my initial takes are right in the end? Not sure if there is truth to that or not.

Your 2nd paragraph, I mean there are levels to that.

as of now we are picking 8th and 19th overall
Will Smith and Perreault dream draft at these picks?

Works for me. Call it a day and watch them put up a bunch of points next year.

 

[Frk It]

Like I said, overrated. He is a good, above-average scout but far from a demigod. His recent track record looks pretty ordinary to be honest unless we want to argue he alone strong-armed the brass into taking Edvinsson, Seider and Raymond (three EXTREMELY well-known draft eligibles).

I have always heard of amateur scouting described as a highly collaborative process. In most cases you are not pinning all of the successes or failures on a pick on 1 person. It was almost always signed off by multiple people. Back in the 90's you might have actually "discovered" a player like Datsyuk that no other team knew of, but that kind of stuff doesn't really happen anymore.

This board for sure likes to credit 1 person for picks way more than it probably should. Basically just pick who gets credit whenever it fits what you want to try to say. Why would I pick someone that only 1 member of my staff likes?

That said, given the amount of time Hakan has been employed by the Wings, the amount of hits he has had from his region over that time frame, and the reputation he has among our front office and the league... yeah, it is hard for me to buy that he is not very good at what he does.

Don't want this to become the focal point of the thread, just my .02.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Look, you guys are all in the 'know' more than me, at least. Other than Fantilli/Carlsson if we randomly win the lottery, who is going to be the player that scores and scores only in this draft? AND, will we be able to draft them at our current position?

I've been reading a lot of names on here, but we need goal scoring and we need it now, so who is going to be projected as that guy? Would like to watch some youtube videos on the person to try and get hyped.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

lol, there's a difference between knowing a guys name and knowing a guys game. Youre telling me that this whole board caught even a single game of Seider's in the german league. Im willing to bet most of this have never watched a DEL match in their life. Seider was projective everywhere as a 2nd rounder to mid 1st round pick. Not a potential top 10 pick. So no there still are players that do go under the radar.

These people are literally paid to watch draft eligible players. There is not a single organization that didn't have eyes on him all year. Now I think teams and public scouts differed in how they projected him as an NHL player (which will always happen) but he was hardly under-scouted as you suggest. He was playing in the WC immediately prior to the draft after all.

What the Wings got right about him was their projection. They thought he was more skilled with the puck than he had showed and had more offense in him than he had shown. They also deserved credit for having the stones to take him where they did (i.e. their conviction of his projection).

 

[Frk It]

Look, you guys are all in the 'know' more than me, at least. Other than Fantilli/Carlsson if we randomly win the lottery, who is going to be the player that scores and scores only in this draft? AND, will we be able to draft them at our current position?

I've been reading a lot of names on here, but we need goal scoring and we need it now, so who is going to be projected as that guy? Would like to watch some youtube videos on the person to try and get hyped.

This kid will probably score 50 goals in the OHL this year, which is impressive. He can get his shot off really quickly and has a pretty high end release IMO.

 

[Henkka]

My first Top80 for 2023:

Pick	AVG	Range	Pos	2022 draft	Size/Hand	Nation
1	1,0	1	C	Connor Bedard	5'9 - R	CAN
2	2,2	2-4	C	Adam Fantilli	6'3 - L	CAN
3	3,1	2-5	RW	Matvei Michkov	5'10 - L	RUS
4	4,5	3-9	C	Leo Carlsson	6'3 - L	SWE
5	6,9	5-16	F	Zach Benson	5'10 - L	CAN
6	7,4	4-18	C	Will Smith	6'0 - R	USA
7	8,9	6-14	F	Brayden Yager	6'0 - R	CAN
8	9,7	6-13	C	Dalibor Dvorsky	6'1 - L	SVK
9	10,9	8-18	F	Eduard Sale	6'1 - L	CZE
10	13,3	8-19	RD	Axel Sandin-Pellikka	5'11 - R	SWE
11	13,8	9-25	C	Oliver Moore	5'11 - L	USA
12	14,6	6-31	LW	Andrew Cristall	5'9 - L	CAN
13	15,2	7-29	C	Ryan Leonard	5'11 - L	USA
14	16,2	8-43	C	Calum Ritchie	6'1 - R	CAN
15	17,1	10-31	F	Riley Heidt	5'11 - L	CAN
16	18,1	14-27	F	Matthew Wood	6'3 - R	CAN
17	18,1	12-28	RD	David Reinbacher	6'2 - R	AUT
18	18,3	8-38	RW	Colby Barlow	6'1 - L	CAN
19	18,9	13-24	LD	Mikhail Gulyayev	5'10 - L	RUS
20	20,6	15-23	C	Nate Danielson	6'1 - R	CAN
21	21,9	16-30	RW	Ethan Gauthier	5'11 - R	CAN
22	22,9	16-29	LW	Kasper Halttunen	6'3 - R	FIN
23	23,5	9-32	RW	Charlie Stramel	6'3 - R	USA
24	23,8	17-27	LW	Quentin Musty	6'2 - L	USA
25	24,4	17-41	W	Gabe Perreault	5'10 - L	USA/CAN
26	24,7	18-39	C	Otto Stenberg	5'10 - L	SWE
27	25,1	14-52	RW	Gavin Brindley	5'9 - R	USA
28	29,2	13-47	LW	Daniil But	6'4 - R	RUS
29	29,9	19-46	C	Samuel Honzek	6'4 - L	SVK
30	29,9	16-40	LD	Theo Lindstein	6'0 - L	SWE
31	31,8	14-59	RD	Lukas Dragicevic	6'2 - RD	CAN
32	32,1	26-42	RW	Koehn Ziemmer	6'0 - R	CAN
33	34,0	17-60	LD	Caden Price	6'1 - L	CAN
34	34,4	29-42	F	Lenni Hämeenaho	6'0 - R	FIN
35	34,6	17-50	F	Jayden Perron	5'8 - R	CAN
36	36,2	24-53	RD	Hunter Brzustevic	6'0 - R	USA
37	36,8	33-46	C	Bradley Nadeau	5'10 - R	CAN
38	37,1	16-49	LD	Dimitri Simashev	6'4 - L	RUS
39	37,3	30-45	RD	Oliver Bonk	6'1 - R	CAN
40	38,4	27-49	LW	Kalan Lind	6'0 - L	CAN
41	38,4	12-66	RD	Cam Allen	5'11 - R	CAN
42	38,5	27-74	LD	Luca Cagnoni	5'10 - L	CAN
43	39,0	22-68	RD	Maxim Strbak	6'2 - R	SVK
44	39,3	28-50	RD	Mathieu Cataford	5'11 - R	CAN
45	39,4	26-60	LD	Etienne Morin	5'11 - L	CAN
46	39,5	19-49	RW	Jesse Kiiskinen	6'0 - R	FIN
47	40,8	21-73	G	Michael Hrabal	6'6 - L	CZE
48	40,8	34-53	F	Danny Nelson	6'3 - L	USA
49	41,3	25-82	LW	Roman Kantserov	5'9 - L	RUS
50	41,6	25-71	C	Luca Pinelli	5'9 - L	CAN
51	41,8	20-50	C	Noah Dower Nilsson	6'0 - L	SWE
52	43,8	30-57	G	Trey Augustine	6'1 - L	USA
53	45,0	41-50	C/LW	Carson Rehkopf	6'1 - L	CAN
54	45,8	43-50	C	Timur Mukhanov	5'8 - R	RUS
55	45,8	29-65	C	William Whitelaw	5'9 - R	USA
56	47,2	29-70	G	Carson Bjarnason	6'3 - L	CAN
57	47,5	20-67	LD	Jakub Dvorak	6'4 - L	CZE
58	47,6	41-61	RD	Tom Willander	6'1 - R	SWE
59	48,2	28-60	LD	Tanner Molendyk	5'11 - L	CAN
60	50,6	24-74	RW	Alex Ciernik	5'10 - L	SVK
61	50,8	44-55	RD	Beau Akey	6'0 - R	CAN
62	51,8	48-55	LD	Andrew Strathmann	5'11 - L	USA
63	52,1	29-103	C	Denver Barkey	5'9 - L	CAN
64	52,5	38-82	F	Oscar Fisker Molgaard	6'0 - L	DEN
65	54,0	32-74	G	Adam Gajan	6'4 - L	SVK
66	54,3	33-82	LD	Arttu Kärki	6'2 - L	FIN
67	58,4	46-82	RD	Jordan Tourigny	5'11 - R	CAN
68	58,8	28-73	C	Coulson Pitre	6'0 - R	CAN
69	59,5	42-83	F	Jesse Nurmi	5'11 - L	FIN
70	59,8	55-64	RD	Aram Minnetian	6'0 - R	USA
71	59,8	58-61	W	Noel Nordh	6'2 - L	SWE
72	64,2	47-82	F	Tuomas Uronen	6'0 - R	FIN
73	64,7	39-83	W	Emil Järventie	5'10 - L	FIN
74	64,8	43-100	LW	Aydar Suniev	6'2 - L	RUS
75	64,9	48-11	C/LW	Tyler Peddle	6'1 - L	CAN
76	65,0	41-84	LW	Ondrej Molnar	6'0 - L	SVK
77	65,7	47-75	W	Matthew Soto	5'11 - R	CAN
78	65,8	45-80	C	Gracyn Sawchyn	5'11 - R	CAN
79	66,7	59-80	LD	Quinton Burns	6'1 - L	CAN
80	67,8	65-76	C	Martin Misiak	6'2 - L	RUS

Quite forward-heavy on the Top29, think the D are gonna rise and they go higher on draft day.

Could see Leo Carlsson easily picked at Top3, and Michkov will fall some positions, but not too far. Not outside from Top10.

 

[Detroit Knights]

This kid will probably score 50 goals in the OHL this year, which is impressive. He can get his shot off really quickly and has a pretty high end release IMO.

Looks like on some of the clips he does the same toe-drag and shot combo that bedard does that everyone get's all excited about. Does that seem like an accurate statement?