2023 Draft Discussion

[NickH8]

Do you believe that Smith is going to be a perennial 80+ point center? Who do you think he compares most to in the NHL?

Craig's List: Adam Fantilli, Leo Carlsson jostle for 2nd behind Connor Bedard in NHL Draft ranking | TSN

New list by Button.

I think it's possible. He has the skill to do so. I trust him to score 80 more than a lot of guys in the draft.

 

[Henkka]

Falling?

He was #15 on Bob's mid-season ranking after not making the pre-season list. Pronman had him #5 in his March ranking.

I would consider him to be rising, not falling. But not sure where you are looking.

Danielson was 19,3 on average on my early season ranking and now he is 21,0.

And his position is 20th best on the rank.

Not really falling or rising, just staying same.

 

[Frk It]

Do you believe that Smith is going to be a perennial 80+ point center? Who do you think he compares most to in the NHL?

Craig's List: Adam Fantilli, Leo Carlsson jostle for 2nd behind Connor Bedard in NHL Draft ranking | TSN

Kuznetsov is a comp for Smith I have seen that I think works.

I trust him to score 80 more than a lot of guys in the draft.

Same.

 

[Frk It]

I'm not trying to sound overly critical, and think that the flaws in Smith's game can be worked on. But they're also the things that make me not want the guy with a top 10 pick. And I think the strengths to his game are tremendously overstated here because they see gaudy numbers from the USNTDP. I don't think he's a better prospect than Cooley, Nazar or Cutter Gauthier were last season. They went 3, 5 and 13 respectively.

If he is getting overrated because of gaudy numbers than why isn’t Perreault who has even better numbers?

A lot of these arguments against Smith fall flat on their face.

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

I don’t think Smith is better than cooley but i do think he’s better than both Nazar and Gauthier

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

If he is getting overrated because of gaudy numbers than why isn’t Perreault who has even better numbers?

A lot of these arguments against Smith fall flat on their face.

Winger vs. Center. Smith is also (slightly) bigger.

 

[Frk It]

Anyone think Axel Sandin Pellikka would be worth drafting with a first or second round pick? He seems to be outside the areas where there is largely consensus. He could likely be had with the Isles first round pick but that may be too aggressive. He would possibly be gone by the time we use our highest 2nd round pick.

He's a bit small at 5'11" but he's supposedly the best passer in the draft among d-men and is a natural PP quarterback. He's also a righty so that would be helpful given our current defensive prospects.

Not gonna lie, I do like the Quinn Hughes comparisons but it sounds like he's a solid two-way d-man who could be a great setup guy and power play QB. Maybe a Brian Rafalski like d-man? I have never seen him play, so I am going entirely off of scouting reports.

I do not think he is offensively anywhere near Quinn Hughes. I don't think I would draft him with either of our two first round picks despite being a RHD. Just not sure what his real standout skill is. Seems like a smart player. Mostly I just prefer the options amongst the forwards to him.

Only way I see Yzerman drafting him is if he's convinced he is another Anton Stralman that was putting up 30+ pts and playing 22 minutes on those Tampa Bay Teams. But that is pretty rare to get with guys this size.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Well, it applies to Smith too.

I haven't seen too much of Musty or much of the OHL this season so I don't know what to make of him.

I was speaking of Musty. I think you are being too hard on Smith's skating. I don't think he is elite like Moore, but I think he is above average. That said, I do think it is fair to question his engagement off of the puck and his work rate at times. That, however, is something different than his skating. He has a lot of maturing to do as a player, but has a bunch of really, really good tools.

9 out of 10 times I prefer the profile of a Moore to a Smith. I think tenacious, strong-skating players who constantly contest the play have really good floors and tend to work in a variety of positions in the lineup (and punch above their weight class). Given that we took a similar-profile player last year, however, I don't feel compelled to take Moore over Smith at this point. People should also appreciate that Moore is still undersized by NHL center standards and has his own challenges sticking at that position,

At some point if you want to add skill to the organization, you need to add skill to the organization. If you aren't going to do it now, when are you?

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

I was speaking of Musty. I think you are being too hard on Smith's skating. I don't think he is elite like Moore, but I think he is above average. That said, I do think it is fair to question his engagement off of the puck and his work rate at times. That, however, is something different than his skating. He has a lot of maturing to do as a player, but has a bunch of really, really good tools.

9 out of 10 times I prefer the profile of a Moore to a Smith. I think tenacious, strong-skating players who constantly contest the play have really good floors and tend to work in a variety of positions in the lineup (and punch above their weight class). Given that we took a similar-profile player last year, however, I don't feel compelled to take Moore over Smith at this point. People should also appreciate that Moore is still undersized by NHL center standards and has his own challenges sticking at that position,

At some point if you want to add skill to the organization, you need to add skill to the organization. If you aren't going to do it now, when are you?

we can get the skilled finesse exciting players anywhere. Gotta get the grinders in first to set the foundation.

 

[Perfect Human]

Do you believe that Smith is going to be a perennial 80+ point center? Who do you think he compares most to in the NHL?

Craig's List: Adam Fantilli, Leo Carlsson jostle for 2nd behind Connor Bedard in NHL Draft ranking | TSN

New list by Button.

Willander at 16 and Reinbacher at 26? What?

Felix Nilsson outside the top 80? What?

David Edstrom at 67!? If he falls that far the Wings need to pounce. 6’3” Swedish center who played and produced at SHL this year

 

[Holden Caufield]

Willander at 16 and Reinbacher at 26? What?

Felix Nilsson outside the top 80? What?

David Edstrom at 67!? If he falls that far the Wings need to pounce. 6’3” Swedish center who played and produced at SHL this year

All lists are Interesting draft content to read.
But I wouldn’t worry too much about Button as it pertains to the Red Wings picks.

His values don’t exactly correlate with This Wings current brass;
He had Seider(6) at #26 in his final ranking.
He has Raymond(4) ranked #9
He had Kaspar(8) ranked at #17

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Willander at 16 and Reinbacher at 26? What?

Felix Nilsson outside the top 80? What?

David Edstrom at 67!? If he falls that far the Wings need to pounce. 6’3” Swedish center who played and produced at SHL this year

Button has some unique insights often but his rankings are a bit erratic. He’s not as good as Bob McKenzie but I still respect his work more than Wheeler.

That said, I don’t think there’s anyone expecting Nilsson and Edstrom to fall to the 3rd or later.

 

[heyfolks]

My hope for lottery luck is top 5 pick. Wings move up and get Fantilli. That 2nd pick is the player who drops the most. I see Michkov dropping like a rock. Locked into the KHL until AFTER the 25-26 season of the KHL. I mean not even in the system. Tough to scout, on a top club so not being let out early, the politics between nations. A great player but I just can't see him going in the top 5 with this talent up front. Top 10? I don't know. I want him around at 18.

So I have two drafts.

1) Bedard and Michkov
or
2) Fantilli and Michkov.

Anything else is just a terrible outcome. hahaha


Any of the top 5 centers would be a huge win.

A DEEP forward draft, with only 4-5 D ( no goalies) in the top 25.

2023 NHL Draft Rankings: Connor Bedard tops midseason top 70

Connor Bedard is still No. 1, but the battle behind him runs deep in a draft class truly deserving its...

www.dailyfaceoff.com

2023 NHL draft: Midseason prospect rankings, led by Connor Bedard

The NHL's Central Scouting Bureau released its midseason prospect rankings, featuring 400 players.

www.espn.com

Sportsnet's 2023 NHL Draft Prospect Rankings: February Edition

In his latest draft rankings, Sam Cosentino starts with a familiar name on top, but there continues to be plenty of movement through the rest of the top 32.

www.sportsnet.ca

2023 NHL Draft: Baracchini's Top 64 January Rankings - The Hockey Writers Editor's Choice Latest News, Analysis & More

After a dominating performance at the World Junior Championship, Connor Bedard remains the top prospect for the 2023 NHL Draft.

thehockeywriters.com

 

[Winged Wheel Willy]

Key word here is fantasy, Yzerman has been preaching about patience since day 1 and after the TDL Yzerman said this team not ready yet. To make a trade like that Red Wings should be a border line cup contender team. Like the Shanahan-trade was back in the day, it made the Red Wings a true championship team.

One "star" is not going to change the direction, Brian Burke did that trade in Toronto and Leafs sunked even more. This whole "star" thing is just a gimmick, depth wins championships in real life.

Disagree, there’s not a single team since I been watching this league that won the cup on depth without top tier talent. Go through them, not one. Of course depth is needed, which is way easier to acquire than star level players. But it usually comes from young players on the cheap/on their first contract. In your scenario most of these draft picks will be on their second contract by the time the Wings could contend. Plus, if you just stack up on depth through the draft or FA, then you’ll push yourself up the standings which makes it even less likely to draft top tier talent. And then you’ll be mediocre to good but never great. This team making the playoffs was a nonsense and by signing those free agents, which I disagreed with, you robbed yourself at the chance for excellent talent in the draft. Drafting players between #6 and # 15 over the next 3-5 years ain’t gonna cut it.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Button has some unique insights often but his rankings are a bit erratic. He’s not as good as Bob McKenzie but I still respect his work more than Wheeler.

That said, I don’t think there’s anyone expecting Nilsson and Edstrom to fall to the 3rd or later.

I always take note of who he is abnormally bullish or bearish on. He gets a lot of those calls right. I don't care how he ranks players within pretty recognized tiers to be honest.

 

[Winged Wheel Willy]

I was speaking of Musty. I think you are being too hard on Smith's skating. I don't think he is elite like Moore, but I think he is above average. That said, I do think it is fair to question his engagement off of the puck and his work rate at times. That, however, is something different than his skating. He has a lot of maturing to do as a player, but has a bunch of really, really good tools.

9 out of 10 times I prefer the profile of a Moore to a Smith. I think tenacious, strong-skating players who constantly contest the play have really good floors and tend to work in a variety of positions in the lineup (and punch above their weight class). Given that we took a similar-profile player last year, however, I don't feel compelled to take Moore over Smith at this point. People should also appreciate that Moore is still undersized by NHL center standards and has his own challenges sticking at that position,

At some point if you want to add skill to the organization, you need to add skill to the organization. If you aren't going to do it now, when are you?

You seem well versed and informed. Assuming we stay at our current draft position; is there a player better than Larkin in terms of scoring available?

And what’s your outlook on Kaper? Cuz I think he’ll provide Larkin like value at best. Form what I’ve seen I think of him more like a 60pts guy with good forechecking and some snarl. But haven’t seen him much.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

Looks like Fantilli was at the Wings game tonight based on his Instagram story.

 

[RED WINGS STOMP]

Looks like Fantilli was at the Wings game tonight based on his Instagram story.

Well then that settles it, he belongs to us now. Should be something in the league rules that dictates if a prospect comes to one of your games before the draft, he is yours.



Welcome aboard Adam!

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

Håkan also mentioned in the interview when Yzerman became GM. Håkan was on holiday in Spain when he got a phone call from Yzerman(Håkan calls Stevie sly) when he was on the beach and Yzerman said "Hey. I want someone from the european scouts to come over now and then and compare prospects. You have to figure out who that person is, call me again in 2 days bye". Because Stevie felt it was only North American scouts who went over to Europe and not vice versa, apparently Tampa lost out on David Pastranak that way according to Håkan. And Håkan decided he was the best person for that job

Pasta on Tampa Bay would've been filthy

 

[DamonDRW]

Looks like Fantilli was at the Wings game tonight based on his Instagram story.

... and was cheering for Pens?

 

[SantosHalper]

Disagree, there’s not a single team since I been watching this league that won the cup on depth without top tier talent. Go through them, not one. Of course depth is needed, which is way easier to acquire than star level players. But it usually comes from young players on the cheap/on their first contract. In your scenario most of these draft picks will be on their second contract by the time the Wings could contend. Plus, if you just stack up on depth through the draft or FA, then you’ll push yourself up the standings which makes it even less likely to draft top tier talent. And then you’ll be mediocre to good but never great. This team making the playoffs was a nonsense and by signing those free agents, which I disagreed with, you robbed yourself at the chance for excellent talent in the draft. Drafting players between #6 and # 15 over the next 3-5 years ain’t gonna cut it.

Draft lottery has no guarantees, Red Wings has tanked since 2017 and hasn't come close winning the draft lottery. Top tier talent is needed to become a cup contender, but the draft overall number doesn't decide if the player becomes top tier talent eventually or not. This is just another case of people focusing too much on the draft overall number and we can through the previous cup winners.

Spoiler: 2022 Avs

Top-9 and Top-4
Mikko Rantanen, #10 overall pick. By your draft overall number standarts, Rantanen was never supposed to be top tier talent but he is one, currently on the pace of 54 goals and 99 points. Rantanen became a +PPG guy in his 5th pro year, any reasons why Kasper can't do the same?

Nathan Mackinnon, border line generational talent. Hardest thing to find in any sport, his kind just isn't available in year-by-year bases. Avs finished 2nd last in 2013 and was lucky enough in the draft lottery to pick him. Red Wings finished dead last in 2020 and got the 4th pick. And it took 9 years for Mackinnon to take Avs to a cup.

Artturi Lehkonen, acquired via trade when the Avs was cup contender. Exactly the type of trade what to do when you are a cup contender, then is the time to spend future's not now during the rebuilt.

Gabriel Landeskog, 2nd overall pick but in points the 7th best player in 2011 draft. Best comparison in Detroit is Larkin, 15th overall pick but in points the 5th best player in 2014 draft. How Larkin can not be for the Wings, what Landenskog is for the Avs?

Nazem Kadri, acquired via trade and was brought in to anchor the 2nd line which was their biggest need at the time and vital piece to help Avs becoming a cup contender. Also a former 7th overall pick, which possibly where the Red Wings are going to pick in upcoming draft. Is there any reasons why Red Wings can not find a equivalent player in the upcoming draft?

Valeri Nichuskin, free agent. Former 10th overall pick who was on his way to bustville, no asset's spended on him either. I can think of several Red Wings prospects who could deliver the same what he does.

Alex Newhook, 16th overall pick. Red Wings are going to have the Isles pick in that territory in the upcoming draft, equivalent player can be found there or possibly Red Wings have already founded one and he is in the system already.

J.T Compher, free agent.

Andre Burakowski, acquired via trade. Vital depth piece like Kadri and like in Kadri's case, the assets on him was spended when the Avs was playoff team not when they were still rebuilding.

Devon Toews, acquired via trade. Red Wings have potential "Toews" in Wallinder and Toews is 108 overall pick and yet again proves that core members of the team can be found on the later rounds.

Cale Makar, Red Wings have "Makar" in Seider, different type of player but mans the same role. Makar played his 1st full year in the age of 21, Seider is 21 now and is already a beast. Seider also plays in the team which far worse than the team where Makar entered in 2019.

Bowen Byram, Red Wings also have "Byram" in the system. Edvinsson and he is going to be better than Byram ever will be.

Josh Manson, acquired via trade when the Avs were a cup contender. Just like Lehkonen, Avs spended their future assets when was the right time.

Spoiler: Tampa 2020 & 2021

Top-9 and Top-4
Ondrej Palat, 208 overall pick and core member. Bolts didn't need a top-5 pick to find top-6 winger.
Brayden Point, 79 overall pick and a 1st line center again no top-5 pick needed.
Nikita Kucherov, 58 overall pick and franchise player.

Tampa's dynasty's whole 1st line proves that there is top tier talent available later if your scouting department is good enough.

Alex Killorn, 77 overall pick. Another top-6 winger from the mid rounds.
Anthony Cirelli, 72 overall pick and a 2nd line center

Steven Stamkos, first and only 1st round pick in Tampa's top-6. 1st overall pick, franchise player and the best player of his draft class, the whole package but Stamkos wasn't able to bring Tampa up in his own. Tampa wasn't cup contender until the supportive cast from the late mid/late rounds arrived. In fact Stamkos was non-factor in 2020 because he was injured, Tampa didn't even need him to win the 1st cup. But in 2021 he was factor, as a 2nd line winger. It took 13 years for the"1st overall superstar" to win the cup.

Barcley Goodrow & Blake Coleman, acquired via trade when Tampa already was a cup contender. They needed certain type of depth pieces and JBB traded assets away when they needed help immediately.

Yanni Gourde, free agent.

Tyler Johnson, free agent. 2nd line winger in 2020 and 4th line center in 2021.

Victor Hedman, Red Wings has "Hedman" in Seider and Seider's first 2 years has been more impressive than Hedman's first 2 years. Hedman was 2nd overall and best player of his draft class. So another "superstar" in draft overall number standarts and took him 11 years to win the cup for the first time. Proves again that no matter how high the draft overall number is, it's not a short cut to Cup victory.

Mikhail Sergachyov & Ryan McDonagh, acquired via trade. After Tampa became a cup contender. Red Wings have next potential Sergachyov & McDonagh pair in Edvinsson & Wallinder

Erik Cernak, acquired via trade.

 

[Henkka]

Yzerman said "Hey. I want someone from the european scouts to come over now and then and compare prospects. You have to figure out who that person is, call me again in 2 days bye". Because Stevie felt it was only North American scouts who went over to Europe and not vice versa, apparently Tampa lost out on David Pastranak that way according to Håkan. And Håkan decided he was the best person for that job

I wonder how has that North American drafting gone so much better on latest years....

Suddenly there's also great Draper-picks!

Håkan deserves a statue on LCA, some day.

Laughed for that nickname "Sly". Does that mean Stallone?

 

[lilidk]

... and was cheering for Pens?

No , but he told Yzerman that, Detroit is his only choice to play in NHL

 

[Frk It]

Håkan also mentioned in the interview when Yzerman became GM. Håkan was on holiday in Spain when he got a phone call from Yzerman(Håkan calls Stevie sly) when he was on the beach and Yzerman said "Hey. I want someone from the european scouts to come over now and then and compare prospects. You have to figure out who that person is, call me again in 2 days bye". Because Stevie felt it was only North American scouts who went over to Europe and not vice versa, apparently Tampa lost out on David Pastranak that way according to Håkan. And Håkan decided he was the best person for that job

Hopefully our European scouts feel strongly about Sale. He was one of my favorites for us going into the season and still is. I think he has tremendous upside.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Håkan also mentioned in the interview when Yzerman became GM. Håkan was on holiday in Spain when he got a phone call from Yzerman(Håkan calls Stevie sly) when he was on the beach and Yzerman said "Hey. I want someone from the european scouts to come over now and then and compare prospects. You have to figure out who that person is, call me again in 2 days bye". Because Stevie felt it was only North American scouts who went over to Europe and not vice versa, apparently Tampa lost out on David Pastranak that way according to Håkan. And Håkan decided he was the best person for that job

This makes me feel so much better about our North American scouting. And of course Stevie freaking Yzerman as our GM. Hakan's legend grows, which I frankly thought was impossible. We're lucky he stuck around when he was being badly underutilized during the Holland era. That indicates he has very little ego which is surprising and awesome given how good he is at his job.