2023 Draft Discussion

[Perfect Human]

Interesting to see how far Nate Danielson is falling in most rankings. IIRC, he was top 15 most of the season?

 

[Frk It]

Interesting to see how far Nate Danielson is falling in most rankings. IIRC, he was top 15 most of the season?

Falling?

He was #15 on Bob's mid-season ranking after not making the pre-season list. Pronman had him #5 in his March ranking.

I would consider him to be rising, not falling. But not sure where you are looking.

 

[Perfect Human]

Falling?

He was #15 on Bob's mid-season ranking after not making the pre-season list. Pronman had him #5 in his March ranking.

I would consider him to be rising, not falling. But not sure where you are looking.

Elite Prospects various rankings list they post. Seems to be a mid- to late-20s ranking currently.

Edit:

Elite Prospects - NHL Draft Center ELITEPROSPECTS.COM TOP 32

ELITEPROSPECTS.COM TOP 32 - NOVEMBER RANKING for the NHL Entry Draft

www.eliteprospects.com

 

[Perfect Human]

Falling?

He was #15 on Bob's mid-season ranking after not making the pre-season list. Pronman had him #5 in his March ranking.

I would consider him to be rising, not falling. But not sure where you are looking.

I guess I was not looking at enough lists:
Ranked #17 by CONSOLIDATED RANKING
Ranked #26 by ELITEPROSPECTS.COM
Ranked #18 by FCHOCKEY
Ranked #20 by DAILY FACEOFF
Ranked #23 by THE HOCKEY NEWS
Ranked #15 by TSN/BOB McKENZIE
Ranked #8 by MCKEEN'S HOCKEY
Ranked #18 by TSN/CRAIG BUTTON
Ranked #13 by NHL CENTRAL SCOUTING (NA Skaters)
Ranked #14 by SPORTSNET
Ranked #16 by RECRUIT SCOUTING
Ranked #33 by DOBBERPROSPECTS
Ranked #17 by DRAFT PROSPECTS HOCKEY
Ranked #14 by SMAHT SCOUTING


I came back from Germany over the weekend and am still jet lagged. My mistake!

 

[Frk It]

Elite Prospects various rankings list they post. Seems to be a mid- to late-20s ranking currently.

I think the people that have him in the 20's have always had him in the 20's. I think there is just a bit of a mix of opinion on him.

Can't say for sure though, I put a lot more stock into some lists than others. I mainly look at Bob's lists, hockeyprospect.com, and Button. I think Bob's list is the best to get a feel for how the NHL views a player, given it is the only list we have access to with feedback from NHL scouts. So him going from not ranked to #15 at mid-season trumps any of these others, IMO. At least as far as where he actually goes.

Will look at EP/Pronman/Wheeler/others, but don't put as much stock into them normally.

 

[Perfect Human]

I think the people that have him in the 20's have always had him in the 20's. I think there is just a bit of a mix of opinion on him.

Can't say for sure though, I put a lot more stock into some lists than others. I mainly look at Bob's lists, hockeyprospect.com, and Button. I think Bob's list is the best to get a feel for how the NHL views a player, given it is the only list we have access to with feedback from NHL scouts. So him going from not ranked to #15 at mid-season trumps any of these others, IMO. At least as far as where he actually goes.

Will look at EP/Pronman/Wheeler/others, but don't put as much stock into them normally.

I corrected my mistake, sorry for the confusion! jet lag is no joke.

 

[jkutswings]

Snapped this from the prospect-boards.

Stylistic comparisons.

When looking those rankings, think Will Smith could be our guy.

That makes for some very intense draft watching to see who falls to the second first rounder...

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

He's realgud

I think there is something off about him when I watch him. The feet are obviously heavy but the hands are super soft. Perhaps I am expecting him to use his body a bit more to get to the center of the ice. I also don't see him making a lot of plays with the puck while moving his feet. I understand that he doesn't necessarily need to do so to be successful at the junior level, but it would be nice every once in a while to see these kids do something with the puck while moving their feet. You don't get to glide with the puck from the top of the circle in the NHL game.

 

[NickH8]

Smith can’t skate half as well as Cooley. I also think Cooley was a much better all around player at the same age.

Idk what you're seeing with Smiths skating. It's not elite but it's good. Good enough that it won't hinder his game.
Also Cooley was not very complete. He gave more effort than Smith sure but he had a lot of defensive holes. Smith also isn't totally ignoring defense. He has some defensive smarts. It's just a matter of convincing him that if he's more responsible he'll have the puck more.

 

[Perfect Human]

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Idk what you're seeing with Smiths skating. It's not elite but it's good. Good enough that it won't hinder his game.
Also Cooley was not very complete. He gave more effort than Smith sure but he had a lot of defensive holes. Smith also isn't totally ignoring defense. He has some defensive smarts. It's just a matter of convincing him that if he's more responsible he'll have the puck more.

Cooley not being complete is kind of my point. Everything Smith does, Cooley did better in his draft year. Cooley wasn’t as good defensively as Nazar but was still much better than Smith in that area.

Zombo touched on it a little; Smith doesn’t keep his feet moving enough and that will bite him in the next level. I don’t like his edge work. I’ve seen the guy get knocked on his can or just fall over a lot. His skating is not very deceptive and will need to improve to get the most out of his abilities when moving up.

You also touched on something as well; Good defensive instincts but needs to be convinced to play it. He’s just not a prospect I’m a fan of in the top 10.

 

[Frk It]

Cooley not being complete is kind of my point. Everything Smith does, Cooley did better in his draft year. Cooley wasn’t as good defensively as Nazar but was still much better than Smith in that area.

Zombo touched on it a little; Smith doesn’t keep his feet moving enough and that will bite him in the next level. I don’t like his edge work. I’ve seen the guy get knocked on his can or just fall over a lot. His skating is not very deceptive and will need to improve to get the most out of his abilities when moving up.

You also touched on something as well; Good defensive instincts but needs to be convinced to play it. He’s just not a prospect I’m a fan of in the top 10.

@Rzombo4 prez was talking about Musty, not Smith. (if I'm not mistaken)

The posted they quoted was in response to Musty, at least

 

[GarlicbreadTB]

Maybe it's no shit. But Håkan Andersson was on a Youtube morning show in Sweden yesterday and confirmed if Leo Carlsson is available when it's their turn to pick, they're gonna take him.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

@Rzombo4 prez was talking about Musty, not Smith. (if I'm not mistaken)

The posted they quoted was in response to Musty, at least

Well, it applies to Smith too.

I haven't seen too much of Musty or much of the OHL this season so I don't know what to make of him.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Maybe it's no shit. But Håkan Andersson was on a Youtube morning show in Sweden yesterday and confirmed if Leo Carlsson is available when it's their turn to pick, they're gonna take him.

clip or it didn't happen!

 

[GarlicbreadTB]

clip or it didn't happen!

Translation:

Host: It's going pretty well for Leo Carlsson right?
Håkan: Haha yeah but that's not a super secret
Host: I bet you wouldn't mind getting your hands on him(aka picking him)?
Håkan: No no
Host: Can be tough right?
Håkan: I think so, where will he go? No one can say. Right now we're picking #8 and then there's the lottery. If he's there at #8, I hope so, then we'll take him. If not, it didn't happen.
Håkan: But it's hard to know how the 7 teams before is thinking. But he's very talented that's for sure.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Anyone think Axel Sandin Pellikka would be worth drafting with a first or second round pick? He seems to be outside the areas where there is largely consensus. He could likely be had with the Isles first round pick but that may be too aggressive. He would possibly be gone by the time we use our highest 2nd round pick.

He's a bit small at 5'11" but he's supposedly the best passer in the draft among d-men and is a natural PP quarterback. He's also a righty so that would be helpful given our current defensive prospects.

Not gonna lie, I do like the Quinn Hughes comparisons but it sounds like he's a solid two-way d-man who could be a great setup guy and power play QB. Maybe a Brian Rafalski like d-man? I have never seen him play, so I am going entirely off of scouting reports.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Translation:

Host: It's going pretty well for Leo Carlsson right?
Håkan: Haha yeah but that's not a super secret
Host: I bet you wouldn't mind getting your hands on him(aka picking him)?
Håkan: No no
Host: Can be tough right?
Håkan: I think so, where will he go? No one can say. Right now we're picking #8 and then there's the lottery. If he's there at #8, I hope so, then we'll take him. If not, it didn't happen.
Håkan: But it's hard to know how the 7 teams before is thinking. But he's very talented that's for sure.

thank you

Translation:

Host: It's going pretty well for Leo Carlsson right?
Håkan: Haha yeah but that's not a super secret
Host: I bet you wouldn't mind getting your hands on him(aka picking him)?
Håkan: No no
Host: Can be tough right?
Håkan: I think so, where will he go? No one can say. Right now we're picking #8 and then there's the lottery. If he's there at #8, I hope so, then we'll take him. If not, it didn't happen.
Håkan: But it's hard to know how the 7 teams before is thinking. But he's very talented that's for sure.

thank you

 

[GarlicbreadTB]

Håkan also mentioned in the interview when Yzerman became GM. Håkan was on holiday in Spain when he got a phone call from Yzerman(Håkan calls Stevie sly) when he was on the beach and Yzerman said "Hey. I want someone from the european scouts to come over now and then and compare prospects. You have to figure out who that person is, call me again in 2 days bye". Because Stevie felt it was only North American scouts who went over to Europe and not vice versa, apparently Tampa lost out on David Pastranak that way according to Håkan. And Håkan decided he was the best person for that job

 

[NickH8]

Cooley not being complete is kind of my point. Everything Smith does, Cooley did better in his draft year. Cooley wasn’t as good defensively as Nazar but was still much better than Smith in that area.

Zombo touched on it a little; Smith doesn’t keep his feet moving enough and that will bite him in the next level. I don’t like his edge work. I’ve seen the guy get knocked on his can or just fall over a lot. His skating is not very deceptive and will need to improve to get the most out of his abilities when moving up.

You also touched on something as well; Good defensive instincts but needs to be convinced to play it. He’s just not a prospect I’m a fan of in the top 10.

I just don't see his two way game as irredeemably bad like a Mantha or AA, and the offense he brings will more than make up for it. Especially if he gets some good two way linemates, which we have plenty potential ones in the system.

As for the deceptiveness, I get that his hands won't beat people as easily at the NHL level, but if some point if a prospect can do something at a crazy elite level in juniors you have to admit that projects well to him doing it at a high level in pros. We have nobody who can create like him. I'd rather draft him and deal with the warts than try to turn a player who isn't Smith into Smith.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Anyone think Axel Sandin Pellikka would be worth drafting with a first or second round pick? He seems to be outside the areas where there is largely consensus. He could likely be had with the Isles first round pick but that may be too aggressive. He would possibly be gone by the time we use our highest 2nd round pick.

He's a bit small at 5'11" but he's supposedly the best passer in the draft among d-men and is a natural PP quarterback. He's also a righty so that would be helpful given our current defensive prospects.

Not gonna lie, I do like the Quinn Hughes comparisons but it sounds like he's a solid two-way d-man who could be a great setup guy and power play QB. Maybe a Brian Rafalski like d-man? I have never seen him play, so I am going entirely off of scouting reports.

Nah. He reminds me more of Emil Andrae or Nils Lundqvist than Quinn Hughes. He's also not good defensively. Calling him a two-way D is generous. Also the 5'11" is bullshit. He's probably closer to 5'8 or 5'9" than 5'11".

Great skater, though. Fun to watch but definitely looks more like a guy that is a top tier offensive D in a lower league. Struggles on the bottom pair in the NHL.

 

[RED WINGS STOMP]

Carlsson available at 8? Yeah right. That is funny though, thanks Hakan.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I just don't see his two way game as irredeemably bad like a Mantha or AA, and the offense he brings will more than make up for it. Especially if he gets some good two way linemates, which we have plenty potential ones in the system.

As for the deceptiveness, I get that his hands won't beat people as easily at the NHL level, but if some point if a prospect can do something at a crazy elite level in juniors you have to admit that projects well to him doing it at a high level in pros. We have nobody who can create like him. I'd rather draft him and deal with the warts than try to turn a player who isn't Smith into Smith.

I'm not trying to sound overly critical, and think that the flaws in Smith's game can be worked on. But they're also the things that make me not want the guy with a top 10 pick. And I think the strengths to his game are tremendously overstated here because they see gaudy numbers from the USNTDP. I don't think he's a better prospect than Cooley, Nazar or Cutter Gauthier were last season. They went 3, 5 and 13 respectively.

 

[NickH8]

I'm not trying to sound overly critical, and think that the flaws in Smith's game can be worked on. But they're also the things that make me not want the guy with a top 10 pick. And I think the strengths to his game are tremendously overstated here because they see gaudy numbers from the USNTDP. I don't think he's a better prospect than Cooley, Nazar or Cutter Gauthier were last season. They went 3, 5 and 13 respectively.

We can agree to disagree there. I don't think there's a lot of guys with more potential than Smith.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

We can agree to disagree there. I don't think there's a lot of guys with more potential than Smith.

Do you believe that Smith is going to be a perennial 80+ point center? Who do you think he compares most to in the NHL?

Craig's List: Adam Fantilli, Leo Carlsson jostle for 2nd behind Connor Bedard in NHL Draft ranking | TSN

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