2023 Draft Discussion

[Frk It]

EMPTY POINTS!

I don’t care if a guy has as many points as Smith if they’re coming in garbage time after the other team throws in the towel. The points blind people to the flaws in his game.

His skating is greatly overrated. His elusiveness comes from his stickhandling and not his skating agility. When he can’t stickhandle through an opponent he gets creamed. He can stickhandle realgud though.

Smith is also charmin soft. If I had a nickel for the many times I’ve seen him skate by loose pucks or not finish a check I’d have like, a jar filled with nickels. His defensive play leaves a lot to be desired. It involves mostly circling near the blue line waiting for Leonard or a defenseman to get him the puck to skate out.

His shot is OK for USHL but he’ll have to learn to score from in close at the next level. His playmaking is realgud and I think that’s the part of his game that translates easiest.

The Will Smith scenario really reminds me of Alex Turcotte and how apoplectic some wings fans were that he went at 5 and we got that German Andreas Lilja/Brandon Carlo clone. I thought Boldy, Zegras and Caulfield were far better but Turcotte was the 1C and went ahead of them. Position plays a part in where he’s ranked.

So basically you think everyone who has him ranked 5/6/7 is egregiously wrong and you’re right? Interesting. I’ll tell you what’s more likely to be true…

I would be over the moon if we drafted Smith in addition to what we have been building. Same for Dvorsky. I really don’t understand the pushback on either and where these narratives come from. Sign me up for 6’0/6’1 centers with skill all day.

 

[NickH8]

So basically you think everyone who has him ranked 5/6/7 is egregiously wrong and you’re right. Interesting. I’ll tell you what’s more likely to be true…

I would be over the moon if we drafted Smith in addition to what we have been building. Same for Dvorsky. I really don’t understand the pushback on either and where these narratives come from. Sign me up for 6’0/6’1 centers with skill all day.

What would be the point of discussing the draft if we just appealed to authority for every ranking we do? This thread would only be active when Bob posts his list.

 

[wingerdinger]

I dont catch many USNDP games so they all look like they are superior athletes and have more chemistry then there opponents to me. I like judging the guys at the U18 tourney.

But I don't like appealing to the expert/consensus. Both get it wrong all the time.

 

[Frk It]

What would be the point of discussing the draft if we just appealed to authority for every ranking we do? This thread would only be active when Bob posts his list.

It comes across to me like you guys are looking for something that isn’t there. If there were all these flaws and they were as significant as is being suggested than I am just genuinely perplexed why he is so well regarded by so many.

I think you could sit here and nitpick any player we are looking at in the 5-15 range if you really wanted to.

Sorry I am going to be skeptical that these are legitimate concerns when talking about the guy who is playing the most important position on the best line on the US program and is widely regarded as their best player.

I haven’t seen him enough to say the consensus is wrong, so I’m more inclined to side with the consensus here. I also don’t think he plays like some players he has been compared to in this thread. I think he plays more like Zegras than Turcotte. Some people had similar concerns with Zegras.

 

[Frk It]

From Bob’s mid season rank with feedback from NHL scouts:

6. Will Smith. The U.S. National Development Team U-18 centre is a shade under 6 feet tall but many scouts identify him as having the highest hockey IQ in the entire draft. He uses a vast array of offensive skills to drive a line

Yeah I’d hate to have that guy…

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

So basically you think everyone who has him ranked 5/6/7 is egregiously wrong and you’re right? Interesting. I’ll tell you what’s more likely to be true…

I would be over the moon if we drafted Smith in addition to what we have been building. Same for Dvorsky. I really don’t understand the pushback on either and where these narratives come from. Sign me up for 6’0/6’1 centers with skill all day.

I think he’s easily a first round talent. Not a top 5 guy though. Top 12-15? Sure. But I don’t think he projects to be as impactful as others in the top 10. I have him lower than Dvorsky on my list who you think I bash.

Are the scouts wrong? In this case I think yes and I’m entitled to that opinion. Will I be right? I don’t know. Time will tell. But Smith is a player that doesn’t give me warm fuzzies. And he plays in a way that I’m 100% certain Detroit’s GM would pass over him in place of someone with less perceived talent but much higher intensity.

 

[Frk It]

I think he’s easily a first round talent. Not a top 5 guy though. Top 12-15? Sure. But I don’t think he projects to be as impactful as others in the top 10. I have him lower than Dvorsky on my list who you think I bash.

Are the scouts wrong? In this case I think yes and I’m entitled to that opinion. Will I be right? I don’t know. Time will tell. But Smith is a player that doesn’t give me warm fuzzies. And he plays in a way that I’m 100% certain Detroit’s GM would pass over him in place of someone with less perceived talent but much higher intensity.

Just be careful thinking every forward needs to play like Kasper. The reality is we will need a mix of guys that bring different things. I think we can all agree we need more offense and line drivers.

And we all act like we know what Yzerman likes… he has drafted a pretty wide spectrum of players when you really look at it.

 

[wingerdinger]

From Bob’s mid season rank with feedback from NHL scouts:



Yeah I’d hate to have that guy…

if he's that type of player at the nhl level he'd be exactly what we need. We have enough workhorses we need a throughbred to bring some x factor.

 

[DanielMarois]

Imagine if during the pre-draft team interviews with prospects one of the prospects says Vrana when asked which current player most resembles their style of play lol

 

[wings95]

I would like to see the Wings draft a winger with some size, skill, grit. Prefer that winger to be able to skate well for his size. Not sure who fits that bill. Also want the wings to find a playmaker or sniper with one of their first round picks. A decent sized offensive dman who can also play in his own end, probably hard to find one of those in this draft

 

[jaster]

Which RHD are we going to take with one of our top picks?

 

[jkutswings]

Imagine if during the pre-draft team interviews with prospects one of the prospects says Vrana when asked which current player most resembles their style of play lol

Yzerman: Which current NHL player most resembles your style of play?

Prospect: Vrana.

Yzerman: Good to know. We'll see if you're still there in the 7th round.

 

[DanielMarois]

Yzerman: Which current NHL player most resembles your style of play?

Prospect: Vrana.

Yzerman: Good to know. We'll see if you're still there in the 7th round.

Prospect: you do realize that you won the lottery and that I am Connor Bedard, right?

 

[NickH8]

It comes across to me like you guys are looking for something that isn’t there. If there were all these flaws and they were as significant as is being suggested than I am just genuinely perplexed why he is so well regarded by so many.

I think you could sit here and nitpick any player we are looking at in the 5-15 range if you really wanted to.

Sorry I am going to be skeptical that these are legitimate concerns when talking about the guy who is playing the most important position on the best line on the US program and is widely regarded as their best player.

I haven’t seen him enough to say the consensus is wrong, so I’m more inclined to side with the consensus here. I also don’t think he plays like some players he has been compared to in this thread. I think he plays more like Zegras than Turcotte. Some people had similar concerns with Zegras.

I get where you're coming from but some of us have watched a decent bit of the USDP and have seen some stuff that we find concerning. He's still top 10 for me and right above Leonard. I just think Moore is better.

 

[jfrank21]

I would like to see the Wings draft a winger with some size, skill, grit. Prefer that winger to be able to skate well for his size. Not sure who fits that bill. Also want the wings to find a playmaker or sniper with one of their first round picks. A decent sized offensive dman who can also play in his own end, probably hard to find one of those in this draft

See Barlow, Colby and be happy! Colby goes top cheddar and goes to the hard areas to do it. Definitely not a soft cheese

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

Prospect: you do realize that you won the lottery and that I am Connor Bedard, right?

And good luck to you we’ll take the 8’3 Dman out of the Belarus Coal Miner league

 

[NickH8]

I just want to bring up how crazy of a playmaker Musty is. He's not your typical perimeter playmaker either. Most of his offense he creates off the rush. Getting a guy like him to improve our rush offense would help a ton. It's probably the area we're worst at.

 

[Frk It]

I get where you're coming from but some of us have watched a decent bit of the USDP and have seen some stuff that we find concerning. He's still top 10 for me and right above Leonard. I just think Moore is better.

Do you like Moore the best out of all of them? Is that just because of how high end the skating is? I like him because I think his game can continue to get better with that skating foundation, like we saw with Larkin.

I just want to bring up how crazy of a playmaker Musty is. He's not your typical perimeter playmaker either. Most of his offense he creates off the rush. Getting a guy like him to improve our rush offense would help a ton. It's probably the area we're worst at.

Very good dual threat in terms of shooting/passing. Really good sized too. Not sure if he is interested improving his game when team doesn’t have the puck though.

I like Musty and Perreault for similar reasons in a way - I think they are both really dangerous as shooters and passers.

 

[NickH8]

Do you like Moore the best out of all of them? Is that just because of how high end the skating is? I like him because I think his game can continue to get better with that skating foundation, like we saw with Larkin.


Very good dual threat in terms of shooting/passing. Really good sized too. Not sure if he is interested improving his game when team doesn’t have the puck though.

I like Musty and Perreault for similar reasons in a way - I think they are both really dangerous as shooters and passers.

Elite skating is always a plus. I also love how committed he is to playing defense and how his speed helps him cover a ton of ice. There is a lot of similarities to Larkin.
I will admit Smith has a higher ceiling if he rounds things out, but Moore is such a slam dunk top 6 NHLer.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Which RHD are we going to take with one of our top picks?

Reinbacher, David. From Austria.

With how tough Detroit’s remaining schedule is and how shitty they’ve played lately it’s not hard to imagine Detroit sliding to 7th worst in the league. That’s about where I think Reinbacher will go.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Just be careful thinking every forward needs to play like Kasper. The reality is we will need a mix of guys that bring different things. I think we can all agree we need more offense and line drivers.

And we all act like we know what Yzerman likes… he has drafted a pretty wide spectrum of players when you really look at it.

I don’t think every player has to play like Kasper, (but it would be great if they did) and fully agree that this team needs more line drivers. That said, it also needs some stick-tuitiveness, gumption, grease and grit, too. Getting guys with high skill AND sandpaper high in the draft is where you’re most likely to find it.

 

[Tetsuo]

Reinbacher, David. From Austria.

With how tough Detroit’s remaining schedule is and how shitty they’ve played lately it’s not hard to imagine Detroit sliding to 7th worst in the league. That’s about where I think Reinbacher will go.

Reinbacher and Cristall is my dream draft right now (minus moving up but we know that ain't happenin').

 

[NickH8]

It's hard to keep my rankings consistent because every time I watch a guy I fall in love with them again This draft is too good. Also a ton of my top guys flip flopping. Smith was above Moore on my most recent list I posted but now I've flipped again. Mostly due to good performances from Moore. Good problem to have.

 

[Fyodorov]

I would argue he’s not. Every time I catch an NTDP game it’s Moore, Perrealt and Leonard that catch the eye. Some Coke Eiserman too. He might get get selected before the others but I have my doubts about him being as successful as the others.

I forget which game it was, but Smith had 5 points. Almost all of which came after his team was up by 5 already after the other team basically gave up. That kind of sums him up for me. Leonard and Moore were the guys skating hard and fast early and creating turnovers and locking the other team in their zone early in the match.

fortunately he's scored a few more than 5 points in one blowout the whole year

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

fortunately he's scored a few more than 5 points in one blowout the whole year

My point is that Smith seems to score more in garbage time when his team is up 4 or 5 goals already than when the score is close, and it’s not just one game that this happened in. It makes the stats look great but is misleading.