2023 Draft Discussion

[ShanahanMan]

I agree with the first part, but Kasper and Veleno are worlds apart.

Really? I don’t know, I feel like Kasper is just a more aggressive Veleno. Safe players with meh ceilings.

 

[jaster]

Really? I don’t know, I feel like Kasper is just a more aggressive Veleno. Safe players with meh ceilings.

The idea that Kasper could turn out no better than Joe Veleno is super depressing. Thanks a lot.

 

[newfy]

I'd trade back to like 48 and add a 5th if that's the pick. I'd rather target someone with upside than what looks to be another bottom 6 guy. We have savage Nilsson james already in the system need some offense in the lineup

I absolutely hate when people say this. If a guy isnt 5'10, dangling junior players for 100 points people on here always say they dont have offence or high upside. Theres more ways to create offence than that.

This attitude would have the wings draft Sonny Milano or Fabbri over Larkin in 2014. The same people complained about Bertuzzi being a second rounder because he doesnt have "upside" even though its the second round we're talking about. Hockey is played a variety of ways. The same people at the 2018 draft on here hated the idea of drafting Brady Tkachuk where Zadina was picked. Matthew Tkachuk was drafted "way too high" when Marner and Dvorak were both obviously the ones carrying that line in London.

It gets said every draft and its one of the dumbest thing come draft time. Effective hockey players, not play styles, win hockey games.

 

[ShanahanMan]

The idea that Kasper could turn out no better than Joe Veleno is super depressing. Thanks a lot.

Trust me dude, it’s depressing for me too. But literally the only guy I’ve been wrong about in the last like 15 years has been Zadina (I thought he was gonna be this goal scoring phenom).

 

[norrisnick]

The idea that Kasper could turn out no better than Joe Veleno is super depressing. Thanks a lot.

I mean, Larkin is just Veleno+. Basically the same player. Remember that when Larkin f'd his hand up, all Lalonde did for that game is slot Veleno in his place...

 

[ShanahanMan]

I mean, Larkin is just Veleno+. Basically the same player. Remember that when Larkin f'd his hand up, all Lalonde did for that game is slot Veleno in his place...

I agree. A safe, consistent, 2nd line center. But thats exactly where he was projected at 14th.

 

[lhsgolf19]

Really? I don’t know, I feel like Kasper is just a more aggressive Veleno. Safe players with meh ceilings.

Kasper has played 1 freaking game lol come on man… this is rough even with your shtick ha

 

[norrisnick]

I agree. A safe, consistent, 2nd line center. But thats exactly where he was projected at 14th.

Now you don't have to worry as much @jaster

 

[Pavels Dog]

Really? I don’t know, I feel like Kasper is just a more aggressive Veleno. Safe players with meh ceilings.

Kasper was better in the SHL as an 18 year old than Veleno was as a 21 year old.

 

[jkutswings]

Really? I don’t know, I feel like Kasper is just a more aggressive Veleno. Safe players with meh ceilings.

@OgeeOgelthorpe triggering in 3... 2... 1...

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

The idea that Kasper could turn out no better than Joe Veleno is super depressing. Thanks a lot.

It's also stupid.

The Wings didn't bring Veleno along full time until his D+4. Kasper is likely to be a full timer in his D+2.

Kasper had a terrific season on a team that struggled with injuries. In a defensive role from the 3rd line he scored the 2nd most points of an under 19 player in the league and had the top corsi/fenwick on his team. The guy that scored the most, Leo Carlsson, had 2 more points while drawing comparisons to Mats f***ing Sundin and Nick f***ing Backstrom and was playing on Orebro's 1st line. Oh yeah, and Kasper was apparently playing with an injury for an indeterminant amount of time.

 

[letsgowings9999]

I absolutely hate when people say this. If a guy isnt 5'10, dangling junior players for 100 points people on here always say they dont have offence or high upside. Theres more ways to create offence than that.

This attitude would have the wings draft Sonny Milano or Fabbri over Larkin in 2014. The same people complained about Bertuzzi being a second rounder because he doesnt have "upside" even though its the second round we're talking about. Hockey is played a variety of ways. The same people at the 2018 draft on here hated the idea of drafting Brady Tkachuk where Zadina was picked. Matthew Tkachuk was drafted "way too high" when Marner and Dvorak were both obviously the ones carrying that line in London.

It gets said every draft and its one of the dumbest thing come draft time. Effective hockey players, not play styles, win hockey games.

I dont care if a guy gets 100 pts in the juniors,maltby got 100 pts. I've read a lot of ppl say good things about Lind but that hes likely to be a bottom 6 guy and like I said we have alot of those guys in the pipeline and need to take more risk and go for high upside

This team desperately need players who can put up numbers

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

I guess in a reductive enough sense, every player is just some variation of Helm, Larkin, or Veleno.

 

[lilidk]

Really? I don’t know, I feel like Kasper is just a more aggressive Veleno. Safe players with meh ceilings.

We know about Veleno sealing , it's solid #3 center . Kasper is a lot of unknown, we never seen him playing with high end skilled players. At the moment I believe he's first line center. He doesn't have great hands, but very smart and hard work. I believe he is bigger and fester Bertuzzi version

 

[RedHawkDown]

I absolutely hate when people say this. If a guy isnt 5'10, dangling junior players for 100 points people on here always say they dont have offence or high upside. Theres more ways to create offence than that.

This attitude would have the wings draft Sonny Milano or Fabbri over Larkin in 2014. The same people complained about Bertuzzi being a second rounder because he doesnt have "upside" even though its the second round we're talking about. Hockey is played a variety of ways. The same people at the 2018 draft on here hated the idea of drafting Brady Tkachuk where Zadina was picked. Matthew Tkachuk was drafted "way too high" when Marner and Dvorak were both obviously the ones carrying that line in London.

It gets said every draft and its one of the dumbest thing come draft time. Effective hockey players, not play styles, win hockey games.

On the other hand, that attitude could also lead you to pick Pastrnak in 2014. Or Necas in 2017. It’s cherry picked examples both ways. We missed on Zadina trying to shoot for star upside, we missed on Svechnikov and Rasmussen (relatively) trying to shoot for size and strength.

 

[ZDH]

Kasper gonna make a lot of these takes look silly. Can't wait.

 

[Oddbob]

I agree. A safe, consistent, 2nd line center. But thats exactly where he was projected at 14th.

Larkin is a 1C. What a bogus take. 79 pts in 80 GP with no proper linemates helping him get more. Ridiculous!!!

 

[newfy]

I dont care if a guy gets 100 pts in the juniors,maltby got 100 pts. I've read a lot of ppl say good things about Lind but that hes likely to be a bottom 6 guy and like I said we have alot of those guys in the pipeline and need to take more risk and go for high upside

This team desperately need players who can put up numbers

And like I said, theres all kinds of ways to put up numbers. Everyone drafted in the second round arent projected to actually play for sure in the top 6 or they wouldnt be in the second round. You dont need to be small and flashy to have "upside" like hfboards likes to pretend.

On the other hand, that attitude could also lead you to pick Pastrnak in 2014. Or Necas in 2017. It’s cherry picked examples both ways. We missed on Zadina trying to shoot for star upside, we missed on Svechnikov and Rasmussen (relatively) trying to shoot for size and strength.

Yep exactly, so like I said, you pick the effective hockey players with where your picks are. Play style doesnt matter, effectiveness does. I'm not saying dont draft the small, skilled guys... I'm saying you dont avoid one style of play because of some fake upside of another

 

[RedHawkDown]

And like I said, theres all kinds of ways to put up numbers. Everyone drafted in the second round arent projected to actually play for sure in the top 6 or they wouldnt be in the second round. You dont need to be small and flashy to have "upside" like hfboards likes to pretend.



Yep exactly, so like I said, you pick the effective hockey players with where your picks are. Play style doesnt matter, effectiveness does. I'm not saying dont draft the small, skilled guys... I'm saying you dont avoid one style of play because of some fake upside of another

I cna get behind that. I think Benson is the right kind of small player and Cristall is the wrong kind. Leonard the right kind and Honzek not.

 

[letsgowings9999]

And like I said, theres all kinds of ways to put up numbers. Everyone drafted in the second round arent projected to actually play for sure in the top 6 or they wouldnt be in the second round. You dont need to be small and flashy to have "upside" like hfboards likes to pretend.

Yes there's lots of ways to put up numbers but from what I've read around hes not projected to be a point producer.

Obviously I might be wrong but in the first 2 rounds I'd rather take shots at high upside guys. Tristan bertucci is 18 in july and I think has upside . Felix Nilsson is 18 in a few days I think has some upside (with our 2nds) etc... obviously all depends who drops and whos there on draft day

 

[newfy]

Yes there's lots of ways to put up numbers but from what I've read around hes not projected to be a point producer.

Obviously I might be wrong but in the first 2 rounds I'd rather take shots at high upside guys. Tristan bertucci is 18 in july and I think has upside . Felix Nilsson is 18 in a few days I think has some upside (with our 2nds) etc... obviously all depends who drops and whos there on draft day

If these guys had real scoring upside though, they would be drafted higher than the second round. Youre reading about guys having scoring "upside" because they play a flashier game, thats it. At some point in the second round, Lind is going to become just as likely to be a guy who scores like a Bertuzzi type as some "skill" player is going to start scoring at a high level.

A lot of upside talk, especially once you get out of the first round is just mumbo jumbo to be honest. All the prospects are going to have glaring flaws at that point and teams will figure out which players have the best chance of ironing them out

Zach Hyman would have no "upside" as a second rounder but hes on what should be 5 straight 20 goal seasons now despite that, while a guy like Zadina and that crazy upside hasnt put together much to show for it yet

 

[DamonDRW]

Trust me dude, it’s depressing for me too. But literally the only guy I’ve been wrong about in the last like 15 years has been Zadina (I thought he was gonna be this goal scoring phenom).

That's pretty impressive actually if it is true.

What do you think about Lombardi then? In my opinion, we've got a second line center in him that we've been waiting for.

 

[Gniwder]

If these guys had real scoring upside though, they would be drafted higher than the second round. Youre reading about guys having scoring "upside" because they play a flashier game, thats it. At some point in the second round, Lind is going to become just as likely to be a guy who scores like a Bertuzzi type as some "skill" player is going to start scoring at a high level.

A lot of upside talk, especially once you get out of the first round is just mumbo jumbo to be honest. All the prospects are going to have glaring flaws at that point and teams will figure out which players have the best chance of ironing them out

Zach Hyman would have no "upside" as a second rounder but hes on what should be 5 straight 20 goal seasons now despite that, while a guy like Zadina and that crazy upside hasnt put together much to show for it yet

All you're doing is naming a late bloomer that didn't produce in his draft season. Bert was .5 ppg his draft season but improved considerably the next 2. Pretty much everyone here felt he would've been there in the 3rd round.

The last guy you mentioned doesn't even support your argument. Zach Hyman was a 5th rounder that scored 75pts in 48 games, but he did it in Junior A. That's why he fell. Very few players out of Junior A get picked in the first 2 rounds.

If your argument is to pick late bloomers and junior A guys in the second round while avoiding kids that scored in the CHL, you'll get laughed at by pretty much anyone that follows hockey. It's nice to snag late bloomers like Bert, Elmer, or even Helm, but that shouldn't be the draft plan, especially for the first 2 rounds. 3rd round or later? Yeah sure, swing away at guys like Mazur or Lombardi. I mean how do you even tell if a kid is gonna be a late bloomer or just stay sucky? Because he plays tough? Givani had twice as many points as Bert in his draft year.

 

[jfrank21]

That's pretty impressive actually if it is true.

What do you think about Lombardi then? In my opinion, we've got a second line center in him that we've been waiting for.

Here's a hint....it's not true. He's literally Mr Debbie Downer. Consistently negative about everyone and everything drafted by the Wings. So if someone does well *cough Mazer cough* he doesnt acknowledge their existance.

 

[Pavels Dog]

That's pretty impressive actually if it is true.

This is what Mr. "never been wrong about anyone except Zadina" said about Seider:

Big player with questionable puck handling and an offensive black hole. He plays in one the most terrible leagues in the world and still can’t muster points.

This pick is a joke.