2023 Draft Discussion

[SantosHalper]

CHL kids typically sign 2 way contracts because there's no path forward for them aside from the AHL. College kids can choose to stay in college. That is the risk.

But the decision has to be done sooner, every player has their own development curve. Some might be ready sooner or someone might need more time. That extra year gives more leverage, if they sign him or not. And if NHL organizations were afraid of that risk, nobody would draft college kids.

To further the point - it's not exactly binary. "Liking" them is part of the equation but it's more nuanced than that. At some point, they may not think he is worth where he was being taken given concerns. Could he have more upside than Buium? Of course. But they need to weigh that against the likelihood they think he's going to succeed and where he's being drafted. They skipped over him in the first two rounds, maybe they take him with their third pick if he's still there where the potential of his upside outweigh the probability of his success?

As for saying something like "He could've been traded for...". We don't know that. VAN Scouting could see Raty as a total and complete no-value project and wouldn't just accept him as the trade piece for Horvat. Even though you value him highly, doesn't mean that they will as well.

I would say that Red Wings has reached more often than picked players who are falling. Also the "liking" includes the whole package imo, upside, character, developmental program, risk.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

It's actually graduating class. So if the kid is already in college then 3 years, but typically they haven't started college yet before the draft, so in the vast majority of cases it's 4 years. CBA text:

(c) College Players.

(i) If a Player drafted at age 18 or 19 is a bona fide college student at the time of his selection in the Entry Draft, or becomes a bona fide college student prior to the first June 1 following his selection in the Entry Draft, and remains a bona fide college student through the graduation of his college class, his drafting Club shall retain the exclusive right of negotiation for his services through and including the August 15 following the graduation of his college class. The Club need not make a Bona Fide Offer to such Player to retain such rights.



With name changes you can only bet with one person at a time, if newfy doesn't pony up (which I totally expect him not to) then you're on. Let's give him a week.

Loser changes his user name to "Kienan Draper's #1 fan".

FYI, by the time Buium and James graduate, the Wings will have plenty of bottom pair D and bottom 6 wingers, I see them signing elsewhere even if they become pro.

How about this, if James doesn't have an NHL contract by the time he graduates, I won't post at all for a full year. If he does, you agree not to post on here for a year.

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

How about this, if James doesn't have an NHL contract by the time he graduates, I won't post at all for a full year. If he does, you agree not to post on here for a year.

spicy

 

[Gniwder]

How about this, if James doesn't have an NHL contract by the time he graduates, I won't post at all for a full year. If he does, you agree not to post on here for a year.

That doesn't really work because you'll just set up another account, just like everyone who's lost a bet so far.

The entire point of a name change is to show that you're a man of your word. So far nobody here wants to back their mouth up.

Someone here still owes me a name change because Cholo washed out, just like I said he would.

 

[SantosHalper]

 

[Electric Eric]

Yzerman really doesn’t like the QMJHL

 

[TheOctopusKid]

But the decision has to be done sooner, every player has their own development curve. Some might be ready sooner or someone might need more time. That extra year gives more leverage, if they sign him or not. And if NHL organizations were afraid of that risk, nobody would draft college kids.

I would say that Red Wings has reached more often than picked players who are falling. Also the "liking" includes the whole package imo, upside, character, developmental program, risk.

I’m a big supporter of “Go get your guy”. If you love a guy and are convinced he’s going to be a player, take him and the hell with what other people and “experts” say. It’s why you spend 365 days a year watching these kids.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Picking college kids carries a bigger risk than CHL kids. It's always been that way. The "loss" is opportunity cost.

Draper picks Buium instead of Raty, Raty (plus Hronek) could have been traded for Horvat. Horvat looks a whole lot better than having the rights to Buium. (I couldn't have predicted Raty would get traded for Horvat, but I did have him over Buium, so don't give me the hindsight BS.)

I didn't like the James pick, thought they should have picked one of the centers. Just hate it more now.

Dude the wings wouldn’t have traded for Horvat. He would not have been Detroit’s savior. He wasn’t that great in NYI after arriving.

Also Raty sucks. The dude might be a 3rd line center in the AHL.

 

[norrisnick]

Dude the wings wouldn’t have traded for Horvat. He would not have been Detroit’s savior. He wasn’t that great in NYI after arriving.

Also Raty sucks. The dude might be a 3rd line center in the AHL.

We'd still be playing if only we had Graves and Raty...

 

[ricky0034]

That doesn't really work because you'll just set up another account, just like everyone who's lost a bet so far.

The entire point of a name change is to show that you're a man of your word. So far nobody here wants to back their mouth up.

Someone here still owes me a name change because Cholo washed out, just like I said he would.

why are you trying to collect on a bet that you're currently losing?

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

black book has perrault at 9. Love to see it

 

[jaster]

Are we really trying to make a bet that a 19yo 2nd round pick who just finished his freshman year of college and put up ok numbers can be written off already?

 

[Detroit Knights]

Whoever we pick at #9, are you guys thinking that player could make the AHL team? or does it not make sense to go to AHL?

I guess, is it more of he either makes the NHL roster (longshot for a #9 I know), or they go back to junior/college/euro because AHL isn't worth it? Yzerman has said that AHL is better than almost all other leagues that isn't the NHL, so I would think that could still be a factor.

 

[Gniwder]

Dude the wings wouldn’t have traded for Horvat. He would not have been Detroit’s savior. He wasn’t that great in NYI after arriving.

Also Raty sucks. The dude might be a 3rd line center in the AHL.

Rumor is Stevie inquired. Truth is, Vancouver would have taken Raty + Hronek for Horvat because they traded the picks for Hronek.

I don't care what Raty becomes, I know the Wings could have gotten Horvat for Hronek and Raty. That matters. For all I care, at this point he could be the next coming of the Great Zadina. Who cares, he had trade value.

I'm not saying Horvat is a savior, but he'd be the second best forward on the team. I'd rather have Horvat than DeBrincat, by a mile. Plus Horvat gets this team closer to a playoff spot, and if Kasper winds up being a great center then Horvat could always move to wing.

Whoever we pick at #9, are you guys thinking that player could make the AHL team? or does it not make sense to go to AHL?

I guess, is it more of he either makes the NHL roster (longshot for a #9 I know), or they go back to junior/college/euro because AHL isn't worth it? Yzerman has said that AHL is better than almost all other leagues that isn't the NHL, so I would think that could still be a factor.

CHL transfer agreement prevents most of the CHL kids from playing in the AHL. College kids usually prefer to wait until they're NHL ready (Larkin/Beniers/Power/etc).

There's a chance that a European pick winds up in the AHL (like Seider), but Stevie's MO has been to let them play in the SHL for a year (Ray/Kasper).

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

That doesn't really work because you'll just set up another account, just like everyone who's lost a bet so far.

The entire point of a name change is to show that you're a man of your word. So far nobody here wants to back their mouth up.

Someone here still owes me a name change because Cholo washed out, just like I said he would.

I need more juice than a silly name change my friend. If the loss doesn't hurt, the bet just doesn't mean much. I am happy to send booze your way or happy to leave this place during what should be a more competitive and interesting year for the Wings. Your pick.

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

Dude the wings wouldn’t have traded for Horvat. He would not have been Detroit’s savior. He wasn’t that great in NYI after arriving.

Also Raty sucks. The dude might be a 3rd line center in the AHL.

i’m curious on your thoughts about the nhl scouts quotes on reinbacher in the black book

 

[Frk It]

i’m curious on your thoughts about the nhl scouts quotes on reinbacher in the black book

What was the general tone of the comments?

It just came out today. I know personally I hold out for the hard copy.

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

What was the general tone of the comments?

It just came out today. I know personally I hold out for the hard copy.

not pleasant

terrible in his own zone.
Has problems passing to teammates who’s not open

 

[newfy]

Really? Isn't pretty much everything about prospects a guess? Or are you always right, and implying that I'm always wrong? How's Cholo doing? We got to actually watch him in the NHL and the vast majority (over 90% easily) got him wrong, and I'm under the assumption you were one of them.

I'm writing them off because they haven't played well enough in college to go pro within the 4 year time frame. James would have to take a giant leap from this season. Could happen but very doubtful.

What's really dumb is Draper picking his own kid when he should have known he'd go to college, lol.

Anyways, if you got the balls to call me dumb, put your money where your mouth is. Let's do a username bet. Bet you won't back up your mouth, so far everytone that's lost that bet has created a new account.

I would love to see your draft takes about Bertuzzi and Larkin since youre bragging about your Cholowski one.

I'm not in here trying to say I'm always right. I'm in here saying its dumb to say a 2nd rounder one season removed from the draft wont even get a contract. Then have the smugness to talk about it like its already happened.

I would also love to see proof of all these username bets youve made to the point multiple people have had to create new accounts lol

 

[Gniwder]

I would love to see your draft takes about Bertuzzi and Larkin since youre bragging about your Cholowski one.

I'm not in here trying to say I'm always right. I'm in here saying its dumb to say a 2nd rounder one season removed from the draft wont even get a contract. Then have the smugness to talk about it like its already happened.

I would also love to see proof of all these username bets youve made to the point multiple people have had to create new accounts lol

Then it must be really dumb to assess prospects before they're even drafted. My point went well over your head. We're here to discuss prospects before they hit the NHL.

I liked Larkin, but then again everyone here knows I love fast skaters. (Helm with hands, lol) Bert? For sure he did better than everyone expected, but everyone here felt he could have been picked later considering he only had 22 points in his draft year. I'll admit to being part of that consensus.

It's just my thoughts on the draft, but any of those "hard to play against" type players should be 3rd round or later, and even then I'd prefer kids with more upside like Lombardi. Those players can always be picked up in free agency or trade, and the obvious need for this team is scoring. This team has enough bottom 6 players, we need players that can force them down to their proper spots.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

not pleasant

terrible in his own zone.
Has problems passing to teammates who’s not open

I haven’t bought the blackbook yet but that might be the worst assessment of Reinbacher yet. Is it the same scout that said all Reinbacher did was pile on secondary assists despite the fact that Reinbacher had more primary assists this year?

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

I haven’t bought the blackbook yet but that might be the worst assessment of Reinbacher yet. Is it the same scout that said all Reinbacher did was pile on secondary assists despite the fact that Reinbacher had more primary assists this year?

those were 2 different scouts . Another one said they want whatever people are smoking who have him top 5

 

[Henkka]

I’m a big supporter of “Go get your guy”. If you love a guy and are convinced he’s going to be a player, take him and the hell with what other people and “experts” say. It’s why you spend 365 days a year watching these kids.

It doesn't have to be one way or another. Just be smart and turn the switch during the draft.

I would do extremely hard reaches on the top picks before 50 overall with this "get your guy tactics". It's fine there.

But after that (late 2nd from 3rd round) I would start picking just fallers on the late picks. With late picks I would go mostly with data, if the numbers are great, but the guy falling for some reason. Forgot some character or personality things totally. Quite sure Pavel Datsyuk didn't have any kind of super personality at draft time.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Does it seem like Dvorsky is picking up steam to be available at 9? 6' 1" 200 center is pretty good in your first draft year. He has good skills and abilities...what is he lacking?

NHL draft prospect rankings have him as the third best euro skater. I know not everyone likes nhl draft rankings, but being behind carlsson then michkov aint terrible.

IDK it kind of seems like Dvorsky, if available, is the best choice for us to take given his size and position

 

[ZDH]

I'm good with it. Saw a few different people compare his game to Yzerman's...