GDT: 2023 Caps NHL Draft Thread

trick9

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Trading up 1 spot would be silly and ridiculous. If there is a team willing to trade down that spot you already know they aren't going to pick that player you want. I mean what are they going to do if you reject that trade? Change their pick for the sake of it? :laugh:

Regarding Michkov while i would propably pick him if there @ 8 but with all those red flags i wouldn’t move up for him.
 
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ArmadilloThumb

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Trading up 1 spot would be silly and ridiculous. If there is a team willing to trade down that spot you already know they aren't going to pick that player you want. I mean what are they going to do if you reject that trade? Change their pick for the sake of it? :laugh:

Regarding Michkov while i would propably pick him if there @ 8 but with all those red flags i wouldn’t move up for him.

And I agree, my talk about moving up to 7 was to contrast the high cost to move above 7 (and reluctance of anyone above 7 to move down).

I think Langway 's position is well reasoned, where we disagree is how good the depth is with this draft. I think this is an opportunity to get a star 1st liner, and possibly an additional solid 1st liner if things go well and we are reasonably aggressive/have willing trade partners.

This, and playing CMM/Protas/another Bear pretty much full time allows us to hold off on long term UFA/trade decisions for a year. Giving the youth an opportunity to rise to the occasion buys us some time to make more informed decisions once we have a better handle on Backstrom's future along with increasing prospect depth.
 
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ArmadilloThumb

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I still think we could be surprised at 8OA if a couple of teams ahead of us go with a D/Dvorsky/another pick a little off the board (Wood/Honzek/other).

One of Smith/Leonard falling to us would be a big deal. Not likely, but not impossible.
 
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Ridley Simon

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Trading up 1 spot would be silly and ridiculous. If there is a team willing to trade down that spot you already know they aren't going to pick that player you want. I mean what are they going to do if you reject that trade? Change their pick for the sake of it? :laugh:

Regarding Michkov while i would propably pick him if they’re @ 8 but with all those red flags i wouldn’t move up for him.
Flyers will sell it to the best bidder. That’s what will happen if the Caps reject a fair deal. What the Flyers will pick isn’t really relevant.

I’d highly doubt that Washington would be the only club interest in Michkov around 4-10. Team could easily jump over us (to the Flyers!) if they really want him.
 

trick9

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Flyers will sell it to the best bidder. That’s what will happen if the Caps reject a fair deal. What the Flyers will pick isn’t really relevant.

I’d highly doubt that Washington would be the only club interest in Michkov around 4-10. Team could easily jump over us (to the Flyers!) if they really want him.
How is it not relevant what the Flyers will pick? Trading down happens when you think your initial target is going to be there later on. It doesn't happen if there is a possibility that the team you are trading that pick to might take your guy.

Flyers can go sell that pick and move down below us if they wish. I don't think us moving up is still a viable scenario there. If the Flyers think their target is there after our pick, they are going to move the pick further because the return will likely be much better to move back 2-3 spots rather than 1. If they are worried we pick their target then they won't trade that pick at all.
 

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How is it not relevant what the Flyers will pick? Trading down happens when you think your initial target is going to be there later on. It doesn't happen if there is a possibility that the team you are trading that pick to might take your guy.

Flyers can go sell that pick and move down below us if they wish. I don't think us moving up is still a viable scenario there. If the Flyers think their target is there after our pick, they are going to move the pick further because the return will likely be much better to move back 2-3 spots rather than 1. If they are worried we pick their target then they won't trade that pick at all.
It's irrelevant who the Flyers want after moving down. What's relevant is who teams moving into their spot would want - presumably Michkov. If Michkov is there at 7 and you want him, it's perfectly reasonable to move up one spot to grab him, rather than some team like Detroit, or (Ovy forbid) Pittsburgh jumping ahead of you to pick him.
 
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trick9

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It's irrelevant who the Flyers want after moving down. What's relevant is who teams moving into their spot would want - presumably Michkov. If Michkov is there at 7 and you want him, it's perfectly reasonable to move up one spot to grab him, rather than some team like Detroit, or (Ovy forbid) Pittsburgh jumping ahead of you to pick him.
It's not really irrelevant because the whole scenario is dependant on the Flyers willingness to move down. Teams rarely do that in the top-10 because teams don't want to pay to move up 1 spot and moving down multiple spots puts you at risk of missing out on your top target.

I still wouldn’t pay to move up for Michkov. If someone else wants to do it, let them. We are already starving for assets as is and there are several other great candidates at 8.

Pittsburgh is the last team that would move up for Michkov. They already rejected Hextall's rebuild plan and now they would pay the assets (which they don't even have to begin with) to draft a player for post-Crosby era? Doesn't seem likely.
 

Langway

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Dvorsky does seem like the odds on favorite at 8, mostly since it seems more likely Reinbacher and Leonard are off the board. Given long-term uncertainty at the center position it would be a pretty convenient fit and one that offers a different blend compared to more finesse options in CMM/Lapierre. One could argue maybe there's offensive upside left on the table compared to Moore or Benson but Dvorsky is bigger and a bit more put together. Teams tend to opt for more size up the middle and Dvorsky has pretty much dominated his peers. He checks off most boxes as a future two-way middle six C. His skating needs work but they've shown little concern for that not being fixable and his instincts suggest strong two-way upside provided improved skating.
 

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I'd be pretty ok with Dvorsky based on my limited knowledge of these guys (99% just reading others' analysis.)

One of Dvorsky, Michkov, Reinbacher or Leonard will be available to us. And while I have my preferences (M, D, L, R) all will likely be fine NHLers.
 
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trick9

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Dvorsky does seem like the odds on favorite at 8, mostly since it seems more likely Reinbacher and Leonard are off the board. Given long-term uncertainty at the center position it would be a pretty convenient fit and one that offers a different blend compared to more finesse options in CMM/Lapierre. One could argue maybe there's offensive upside left on the table compared to Moore or Benson but Dvorsky is bigger and a bit more put together. Teams tend to opt for more size up the middle and Dvorsky has pretty much dominated his peers. He checks off most boxes as a future two-way middle six C. His skating needs work but they've shown little concern for that not being fixable and his instincts suggest strong two-way upside provided improved skating.
Dvorsky is a very tough read for me. I think that's part of the reason why he is behind Benson for example, in my eyes. Skating could improve, to a degree, but that prevents him from elite status in my books, or atleast makes it unlikelier. He does have several great traits. Great hands, good defensive instincts, excellent hand-eye coordination and a really smart player who processes the game well and is good in tight spaces (this is a weakness for some Europeans).

But i keep coming back to the offensive upside with him. There are concerns regarding his lack of production. Mature beyond their age sort-of players that produce in the Juniors but not against men (atleast yet) is a bit worrying. He also gets a lot of rave for being good around the net, but that side of him is missing when playing against men. Against Juniors it's far easier to score around the net because the defensive level isn't there yet. That gets tougher at every level and very few manage to translate that to the NHL-level. I do like his hand-eye coordination like i said but he hasn't been able to translate it to points against men. He does have a solid shot but again, little bit of question mark that he hasn't gotten into scoring areas and utilize it more. It's easier on the PP where he does have few goals but if finding scoring areas is an issue at that level, significant step is required before it translates into NHL-production. He does have good numbers against Juniors and in tournaments but that’s a really small sample size and the level of goaltending is really bad compared to the NHL-level (or even any top men's league) where goalies don't let in long-range shots.

He's an infuriating player to judge and i'd wish he was a few months younger to have another year to get a read on him. For me i think right now i'm at the stage where i would hope for one of the other options but i do recognize that with Dvorsky everything really relies on what kind of step he takes for next season playing against men.
 
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Pronman put out a new top 142 draft ranking this morning for the Athletic. He notes that this is the ranking at which he would draft players, and acknowledges that he is more aggressive with drafting Russians than his sources around the league. Top 10:
Bedard
Fantilli
Michkov
Carlsson
Smith
Reinbacher
Danielson
Dvorsky
But
Simashev

Pretty weird draft ranking by Pronman but naturally it is just his opinion.

Do not get Nate Danielson ranked that high watched several videos I don't see the vision at all there.
 

ArmadilloThumb

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I've warmed a little more to Dvorsky, but still think (assuming Michkov is taken and someone ahead of us takes a D...) I lean Leonard/Smith/Benson and then Moore/Dvorsky. Would be pleased with any.

I'm glad Carberry will have strong input. I also wonder if he meets with Kuzy and if that changes things (trade, or stay and try with new coach). If Kuzy is already going out (and the Carberry addition only reconfirms and reinforces that decision), maybe that increases the push to move Kuzy for a pick in this draft, given a willing partner.

A lot of fans have been hoping for Michkov, and as i dont think thats likely I'm hoping even harder for a second top 20ish 1st. And now Carberry would be able to have a huge say in who we would pick. Imagine:

Leonard and But, or
Smith and Halttunen, or
Moore and Lardis or
Dvorsky and Richie, or
Benson and Wood
..etc...

Carberry will be able to interview these guys, and if they can get them here in 2 years, there is something to be said for that kind of familiarity and potential sympatico for the last two of his contract.

Opportunity here to use this draft strategically has increased significantly. It would be fantastic if they could move pieces and get four picks in the first 40. Carberry and the staff get to help mold the future - all on the same page - starting now.
 
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SecretaryofDefense5

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I've warmed a little more to Dvorsky, but still think (assuming Michkov is taken and someone ahead of us takes a D...) I lean Leonard/Smith/Benson and then Moore/Dvorsky. Would be pleased with any.

I'm glad Carberry will have strong input. I also wonder if he meets with Kuzy and if that changes things (trade, or stay and try with new coach). If Kuzy is already going out (and the Carberry addition only reconfirms and reinforces that decision), maybe that increases the push to move Kuzy for a pick in this draft, given a willing partner.

A lot of fans have been hoping for Michkov, and as i dont think thats likely I'm hoping even harder for a second top 20ish 1st. And now Carberry would be able to have a huge say in who we would pick. Imagine:

Leonard and But, or
Smith and Halttunen, or
Moore and Lardis or
Dvorsky and Richie, or
Benson and Wood
..etc...

Carberry will be able to interview these guys, and if they can get them here in 2 years, there is something to be said for that kind of familiarity and potential sympatico for the last two of his contract.

Opportunity here to use this draft strategically has increased significantly. It would be fantastic if they could move pieces and get four picks in the first 40. Carberry and the staff get to help mold the future - all on the same page - starting now.
It feels like the Kuzy ship may have sailed.


Definitely has talent but I’d argue Suzdalev may have better hands.
 
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Langway

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With Dvorsky I'm inclined to believe glimpses shown in international play are indicative of what there is to work with. It's a matter of tapping into it and helping him put it together. Mostly his skating has to take off to be able to dictate. But the instincts are at least largely there.

Analytics would say take Benson instead. There's an easier offensive profile that should mesh well with skilled players. It's more whether his frame limits reliability and to what extent his battle level improves. He and Michkov both would be the shortest first rounders in franchise history. Benson kills penalties so he's not a complete shit show in his own end compared to some but is he so dynamic an NHL coach would overlook some battle limitations? If the Caps had a stronger foundation up the middle--or defensively in general--I'd sooner take Benson as more of an X factor. But they're still likely to play a methodical grinding game and I'm not sure Benson improves their skill substantially enough to discount his near-term limitations. Hence, why a guy like Moore also deserves consideration as a potential force-multiplying all-situations center. Speed isn't everything but plus pace up the middle can do an awful lot covering for an older, somewhat sloppy team. His offensive IQ may not be elite but if it was he wouldn't be there at 8. As a 200 ft. center that can make at least routine system plays and thrive largely off the puck there's a lot to like as a fit. The main obstacle is likely size and, in the near-term, strength. If they can get over that there's got to be appeal adding probably the best skater in the draft and at center ice. Outside of Wilson's physicality they need more disruptive forwards and Moore supplies that in some pretty varied, valuable fronts. They shouldn't key in on current need too much but they do need to project near-term weaknesses and whether it's realistic to expect to add them by other means. A lot can change but I doubt it will be easy vastly improving pace, nor securing that up the middle.

The various candidates at 8 may also need to be valued in relation to trade possibilities. It's here also where I think Benson falls short. If they could net an Ehlers would you not make that move compared to waiting a year or two for Benson? Whereas for a potential top six center--if they are indeed bullish on their upside--it's an easier argument to accept the value of patience. They need to pick a substantial, scarce talent ideally impacting all game phases in order to rationalize keeping the pick. Otherwise they may be better off cashing the asset for someone further along and more proven. I think shooting for something like a higher floor at 8 would be very foolish. Just move it if that's a key motivator. Depending on the trade market, should it be stronger than an Ehlers for instance, even the 2C prospects could struggle to match up. As much as they need youth they've got to be open for business and a variety of ways to improve and maximize value.
 
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OV Rocks

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With Dvorsky I'm inclined to believe glimpses shown in international play are indicative of what there is to work with. It's a matter of tapping into it and helping him put it together. Mostly his skating has to take off to be able to dictate. But the instincts are at least largely there.

Analytics would say take Benson instead. There's an easier offensive profile that should mesh well with skilled players. It's more whether his frame limits reliability and to what extent his battle level improves. He and Michkov both would be the shortest first rounders in franchise history. Benson kills penalties so he's not a complete shit show in his own end compared to some but is he so dynamic an NHL coach would overlook some battle limitations? If the Caps had a stronger foundation up the middle--or defensively in general--I'd sooner take Benson as more of an X factor. But they're still likely to play a methodical grinding game and I'm not sure Benson improves their skill substantially enough to discount his near-term limitations. Hence, why a guy like Moore also deserves consideration as a potential force-multiplying all-situations center. Speed isn't everything but plus pace up the middle can do an awful lot covering for an older, somewhat sloppy team. His offensive IQ may not be elite but if it was he wouldn't be there at 8. As a 200 ft. center that can make at least routine system plays and thrive largely off the puck there's a lot to like as a fit. The main obstacle is likely size and, in the near-term, strength. If they can get over that there's got to be appeal adding probably the best skater in the draft and at center ice. Outside of Wilson's physicality they need more disruptive forwards and Moore supplies that in some pretty varied, valuable fronts. They shouldn't key in on current need too much but they do need to project near-term weaknesses and whether it's realistic to expect to add them by other means. A lot can change but I doubt it will be easy vastly improving pace, nor securing that up the middle.

The various candidates at 8 may also need to be valued in relation to trade possibilities. It's here also where I think Benson falls short. If they could net an Ehlers would you not make that move compared to waiting a year or two for Benson? Whereas for a potential top six center--if they are indeed bullish on their upside--is an easier argument to accept the value of patience. They need to pick a substantial, scarce talent ideally impacting all game phases in order to rationalize keeping the pick. Otherwise they may be better off cashing the asset for someone further along and more proven. I think shooting for something like a higher floor at 8 would be very foolish. Just move it if that's a key motivator. Depending on the trade market, should it be stronger than an Ehlers for instance, even the 2C prospects could struggle to match up. As much as they need youth they've got to be open for business and a variety of ways to improve and maximize value.
What does the draft order look like where the 8th overall pick starts to hold more value in trading for a player like Ehlers, Keller, Bratt, Necas, Marner, Konecny?

I think if the best player available is Benson, Moore, Perreualt, or Reinbacher, nothing like that excites me.
 

twabby

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Not a Caps quote, but it's a philosophy I think they should follow this draft.

If there's no gamebreaking talent available at #8 then I'd say trade it for immediate help. It's easy enough to get those second tier type players via trade and free agency. No reason to waste a premium asset in #8 overall on a lower ceiling type player.
 
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ArmadilloThumb

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Trotz is clearly referring to 3rd & 4th liners. I'm certainly not expecting anything like that being all that is left at 8 OA in this draft.

This is a pretty decent and comprehensive review of one set of 60. Of course, any of these are objective, and nothing is guaranteed, but there are quite a few forwards assessed here with top three potential, and another decent sized group assessed as having strong top 6 potential. Caps will have their own list, but I don't think they are assessing everyone below the top 5 as 3rd and 4th liners. YMMV.

I am pretty sure the Caps still hold Hockey IQ and compete as priority characteristics (they have mentioned this in prior years). If this is indeed a good assessment, I wonder if the Caps' internal list has similarities to this.


Mahoney et al sometimes go their own way, and we could see a surprise. From this list Honzek, Wood, Perreault, Sale, and Stenberg could all be players that check the Hockey IQ enough, and may be high on their list if they think upside is top 3.

I'm not advocating for any of them, just trying to guess how Mahoney and staff may be thinking. I'm still hoping for one of Smith/Leonard/Benson and think they definitely have career/star 1st line potential.

Also think teams ahead of us may have very different lists and may surprise, meaning we may have someone very good available (like one or two of the three I mentioned). Seems like a draft where many teams have to think on the fly.
 
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pman25

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Good motto to follow. Of course that means different things to different people. Some might pass on a Nate Danielson given that advice since he looks like a solid middle 6 guy but others might see the next Patrice Bergeron

like who right now in 10-25 range could you see turning into a legit star that a lot of teams passed on. Like the next Pastrnak, Thompson, or O’Reilly?

I’d say: Perreault, Wood look like good bets to be stars but might wait until the teens to get picked due to less than ideal skating
 

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