Pre-Game Talk: 2023/24 Training Camp

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Foppa2118

Registered User
Oct 3, 2003
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Donskoi - lost to ExD
Graves - trade forced by ExD
Zadorov - traded as an RFA when he would have priced himself out
Kerfoot - traded as an RFA
Cole - trade forced because of cap reasons due to EJ and Francouz being on IR.
Jost - traded with one year and a bit left, had previously requested trade
Kaut - had requested trades
Barrie - traded with one year left to UFA as he (i.e. Newport) priced himself out and Makar was clearly taking his place

So yeah, unless trades are forced the Avs are actually pretty loyal to their guys. The Cole trade in particular does give some hope that the front office can be ruthless when they need to be though, as will likely need to happen next off-season.

I don't know, I think they can be pretty cold businessmen too.

- Sakic trading his buddy Alex to the Coyotes at the deadline for Boedker, instead of letting him retire as an Av.
- Letting Duchene suffer for a year or so after requesting a trade, until they found a deal they liked
- Asking EJ to waive his NTC
- Dragging out negotiations with their captain Landeksog until the eery last minute to et the deal they wanted, which wasn't sitting well with him at the time
- Almost letting Mikko hold out
- Trading MacKinnon's buddy Barrie instead of re-signing him
- Trading a vet like Cole for Pateryn halfway through the season because they needed cap space
- Seemingly not trying to bring back a fan favorite in Stastny after he implied he'd stay during his first stint, but then seemed to pursue top dollar in UFA
- Walking away from Grubauer
- Walking away from Kuemper after he won them a Cup
- Not bringing back a fan favorite key Cup contributor in Naz, because of his age, unless he took a bargain deal
- Makar's buddy Toews?
 

lionsDen

Hated And Proud
Jan 26, 2022
3,765
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He admitted in several interviews that he didn't go back to Toronto (his choice) because of market pressure. Here's one:

CpysMmv.png


I stand corrected. He did say those things and it was my assumption that he didn’t go back because of dollars. Props for the screenshot
 
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Richard88

John 3:16
Jun 29, 2019
19,320
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I don't know, I think they can be pretty cold businessmen too.

- Sakic trading his buddy Alex to the Coyotes at the deadline for Boedker, instead of letting him retire as an Av.
- Letting Duchene suffer for a year or so after requesting a trade, until they found a deal they liked
- Asking EJ to waive his NTC
- Trading MacKinnon's buddy Barrie instead of re-signing him
- Trading a vet like Cole for Pateryn halfway through the season because they needed cap space
- Seemingly not trying to bring back a fan favorite in Stastny after he implied he'd stay during his first stint, but then seemed to pursue top dollar in UFA
- Walking away from Grubauer
- Walking away from Kuemper after he won them a Cup
- Not bringing back a fan favorite key Cup contributor in Naz, because of his age, unless he took a bargain deal
- Makar's buddy Toews?
Most of those were either UFA's or pending UFA's. Point being that the Avs tend to honour contracts they sign with a player, unless unforeseen or outside circumstances forces their hand.

Other than Graves (forced by ExD) and Duchene and Jost (both of whom requested trades) when is the last time the Avs traded a player with multiple years left on their contract?
 

Foppa2118

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Most of those were either UFA's or pending UFA's. Point being that the Avs tend to honour contracts they sign with a player, unless unforeseen or outside circumstances forces their hand.

Other than Graves (forced by ExD) and Duchene and Jost (both of whom requested trades) when is the last time the Avs traded a player with multiple years left on their contract?

It's not really that common for teams to sign a player to a multi year deal and then trade them with multiple years left though.

Something usually has to force their hand like the cap or a need for another position and they're forced to part with someone they don't want to.

Either that or they're a rebuilding team that wants to sell as opposed to a buying team like the Avs that wants to make additions.

Also the Avs are a team with a plan at all times. They plan ahead multiple years and tend to stick to it. When other teams might sign a player they're iffy on and then trade them, the Avs just won't sign them.
 
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Pokecheque

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The Avs 22 man roster including Francouz and with Hunt as 7D and MacDermid as 13F has $537.5k in capspace.

If MacDermid was making league minimum ($775k) the Avs would have an extra $212.5k, giving them $750k in capspace.

That's just $25k short of being able to keep a 23rd guy with a league minimum $775k caphit (eg.Tufte) on the roster when Francouz returns.

Kinda makes it a shame they couldn't sign MacDermid for under $962.5k instead of $987.5k, because right now if Francouz was healthy MacDermid would effectively be taking up two roster spots as his csphit precludes you from having a 23rd guy (whereas if you had someone with a caphit of $962.k or less in his place you could actually go with a 23 man roster).

All of which is a moot point right now though since Francouz is out, but it might be something that becomes annoying later in the season when Francouz returns and they are forced to waive one of Tufte, Hunt, or Olofsson...

I get it, but rightly or wrongly you ain't gonna get a guy like MacDermid for league minimum. I would've loved for the Avs to just get rid of him and just not worry about goon stuff until later, but alas, they're not going to.
 

henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
Feb 24, 2012
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Alright... as camp wraps up. Some of my thoughts.

Drouin - looks great on the PP as you'd expect. 5v5 much less so. That's going to have to change for him to work in the top 6. He's not taking Rants' role on the PP, so his PP points are likely more limited.

Olofsson - Props to him on winning the 4C role. Not that the Avs had a ton of guys there who you'd pencil in that role, but he flat out won it. Something you like to see.

Tufte - He shouldn't be a center, but I think he earned a NHL job. I'm not sure what that says about the depth, but always good to see guys come in an earn spots.

Olausson - No doubt he has issues, but he flashed his shot multiple times. At this point that flash will get him a shot at somepoint. Gotta round out the rest of the game.

RyJo - You see the talent one minute (like his tip last night) and then you see all the BS that goes along with. He played lazy hockey. That can't keep up.

Colton - This line without Tatar might be limited offensively a bit more than expected, but you know what you get with Colton. Straight ahead, [MOD]. He won't make any friends across the western conference and that is a good thing.

Clurman - He presented himself as an option. Again, this can make you question somehings about the depth like some of the other guys... but props to him for showing up.

Malinski - IMO he's the exact wrong fit right now. I think on certain teams, he could be a NHL player today and find a role. On this team, he's not steady enough defensively, he takes bad penalties, he turns over the puck, and he's not a guy who will add offense in comparison to many on the Avs' backend (at best he's the 5th best offensively there). I don't see a reason to keep him up. Let him marinate in the AHL and if a couple offensive guys on the backend go down, he can be called up.

MacK - He looks primed and ready to go for a great season.

Other vets - It is always hard in preseason. Some are clearly going through the motions. Still with that you'd like to see more out of Nuke, JMFJ, LOC, Toews, etc. I'll give Makar a pass as he just looked a bit tentative to me... maybe motions, maybe just getting up to game speed. The third line right now looks like high event hockey in good and bad ways. Bednar won't like that, he wants the energy and offense, but if they give up more than they put up... their usage will be limited quickly.

When you dive into the stats... there are some ugly things here. xGF% 5v5... there were only 6 regulars who were over 50% for their preseason work. Makar, MacK, Rants, Colton, Wood, and Girard. With two guys who I think will make the team, you can extend that to 8 with Tufte and Olofsson. 9 if you include Dermy, but for the love of god he should not be. Off hand that's not the worst though. If guys are 47-48-49, whatever preseason things can ramp. Specifically with Toews, RyJo, Drouin, Nuke and Byram... that was not the case. All were below 40%. We need that whole group to be 53+ this season. It is preseason, so it isn't an alarm bell... but that is not a great piece of first evidence. We need to see that be much better to start the season. On chances, RyJo basically created almost nothing 5v5 and neither did Nuke. Those two are likely to be on a line together, they need to find chemistry. Byram and Toews bled chances against. Colton and Malinski were give away machines (even Byram had issues).

All and all... lots to clean up right now. I'm keenly interesting in RyJo and Nuke's start to the season and if the 3rd line can limit the chances they give up. Those two lines will probably determine how the start of the season goes. The need to mesh and get going, otherwise we're going to be relying a lot on MacK and Mikko to start the season strong.
 
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Pokecheque

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John Mandalorian

2022 Avs: The First Dance
Nov 29, 2018
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As the season moves along, I expect Johansen to thrive in the bumper position. He thrives in this spot and he’ll be fed a lot of chances. 5 on 5 will depend on his line mates. It has he potential to be frustrating if Rantanen isn’t on his wing.
 

Foppa2118

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xGF stats in pre-season are completely meaningless. The road team ices a mostly AHL team on lines with vets, against the home team icing mostly NHLers, and there's usually at least one AHL goalie in the game.

Plus vets usually mail it in during pre-season, just trying to get in shape, shake off the rust, and not get injured.

Didn't catch the last game yet, but Malinski hasn't looked good enough in pre-season to make the team. Not bad enough to be concerned though. He's just clearly not used to the pace. He's hurrying passes, late to anticipate loose pucks, and taking penalties, because of this.

He'll get some time in the AHL and get another callup or two before the deadline to re-evaluate.
 

niwotsblessing

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xGF stats in pre-season are completely meaningless. The road team ices a mostly AHL team on lines with vets, against the home team icing mostly NHLers, and there's usually at least one AHL goalie in the game.

Plus vets usually mail it in during pre-season, just trying to get in shape, shake off the rust, and not get injured.

Didn't catch the last game yet, but Malinski hasn't looked good enough in pre-season to make the team. Not bad enough to be concerned though. He's just clearly not used to the pace. He's hurrying passes, late to anticipate loose pucks, and taking penalties, because of this.

He'll get some time in the AHL and get another callup or two before the deadline to re-evaluate.
Malinski played for a month in Windsor after he finished college. Maybe he needs a little more time?
 
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Foppa2118

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Malinski played for a month in Windsor after he finished college. Maybe he needs a little more time?

Yeah the AHL is perfect for him right now. He'll get a big role and get more used to the pro pace and physicality. It's not NHL pace, but he only played a few games there last year and then had the summer break. So it might not have helped him enough to adjust this year.

Half a season down there and he cold look very different in his next stint. Or sooner if they have injuries and need him. Maybe he doesn't even need half an AHL season, we'll have to see.

Shattenkirk for example played a few AHL games after his BU season. Then didn't look so great in camp the next year, got sent down and played 10 AHL games, then came back up and never went back.
 

niwotsblessing

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Yeah the AHL is perfect for him right now. He'll get a big role and get more used to the pro pace and physicality. It's not NHL pace, but he only played a few games there last year and then had the summer break. So it migth not have helped him enough to adjust this year.

Half a season down there and he cold look very different in is next stint. Or sooner if they have injuries and need him. Maybe he doesn't even need half an AHL season, we'll have to see.

Shattenkirk for example plays a few games after his BU season. Then didn't look so great in camp the next year, got sent down and played 10 AHL games, then came back up and never went back.

Obviously Malinski is the next Shatty.
 

Chiarelli

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Jan 27, 2019
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I expect Johansen to only give a f*** on the PP this season and if Bednar tries to take that role away from him as a means of motivation RyJo won’t respond.

Playoffs I bet he makes up for a lazy season as long as the relationships haven’t soured.

People expecting more than 65+ points this season from him are going to be disappointed imo
 
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expatriatedtexan

Habitual Line Stepper
Aug 17, 2005
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I expect Johansen to only give a f*** on the PP this season and if Bednar tries to take that role away from him as a means of motivation RyJo won’t respond.

Playoffs I bet he makes up for a lazy season as long as the relationships haven’t soured.

People expecting more than 65+ points this season from him are going to be disappointed imo
I imagine as long as the W's are coming people will be somewhat tolerant of lower point production. I'm not expecting RyJo to be a world beater, but I do expect him to be an upgrade offensively from JT2C. I think it's fair to say he's got better offensive instincts than Compher, and I also believe he's a better passer. He should be as good if not better on the dot as well. As long as he isn't holding Mikko, Nuke or Lehky back with his play I think there's a fair chance of this working out okay.
 

Sea Eagles

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Feb 7, 2012
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Alright... as camp wraps up. Some of my thoughts.

Drouin - looks great on the PP as you'd expect. 5v5 much less so. That's going to have to change for him to work in the top 6. He's not taking Rants' role on the PP, so his PP points are likely more limited.

Olofsson - Props to him on winning the 4C role. Not that the Avs had a ton of guys there who you'd pencil in that role, but he flat out won it. Something you like to see.

Tufte - He shouldn't be a center, but I think he earned a NHL job. I'm not sure what that says about the depth, but always good to see guys come in an earn spots.

Olausson - No doubt he has issues, but he flashed his shot multiple times. At this point that flash will get him a shot at somepoint. Gotta round out the rest of the game.

RyJo - You see the talent one minute (like his tip last night) and then you see all the BS that goes along with. He played lazy hockey. That can't keep up.

Colton - This line without Tatar might be limited offensively a bit more than expected, but you know what you get with Colton. Straight ahead, [MOD]. He won't make any friends across the western conference and that is a good thing.

Clurman - He presented himself as an option. Again, this can make you question somehings about the depth like some of the other guys... but props to him for showing up.

Malinski - IMO he's the exact wrong fit right now. I think on certain teams, he could be a NHL player today and find a role. On this team, he's not steady enough defensively, he takes bad penalties, he turns over the puck, and he's not a guy who will add offense in comparison to many on the Avs' backend (at best he's the 5th best offensively there). I don't see a reason to keep him up. Let him marinate in the AHL and if a couple offensive guys on the backend go down, he can be called up.

MacK - He looks primed and ready to go for a great season.

Other vets - It is always hard in preseason. Some are clearly going through the motions. Still with that you'd like to see more out of Nuke, JMFJ, LOC, Toews, etc. I'll give Makar a pass as he just looked a bit tentative to me... maybe motions, maybe just getting up to game speed. The third line right now looks like high event hockey in good and bad ways. Bednar won't like that, he wants the energy and offense, but if they give up more than they put up... their usage will be limited quickly.

When you dive into the stats... there are some ugly things here. xGF% 5v5... there were only 6 regulars who were over 50% for their preseason work. Makar, MacK, Rants, Colton, Wood, and Girard. With two guys who I think will make the team, you can extend that to 8 with Tufte and Olofsson. 9 if you include Dermy, but for the love of god he should not be. Off hand that's not the worst though. If guys are 47-48-49, whatever preseason things can ramp. Specifically with Toews, RyJo, Drouin, Nuke and Byram... that was not the case. All were below 40%. We need that whole group to be 53+ this season. It is preseason, so it isn't an alarm bell... but that is not a great piece of first evidence. We need to see that be much better to start the season. On chances, RyJo basically created almost nothing 5v5 and neither did Nuke. Those two are likely to be on a line together, they need to find chemistry. Byram and Toews bled chances against. Colton and Malinski were give away machines (even Byram had issues).

All and all... lots to clean up right now. I'm keenly interesting in RyJo and Nuke's start to the season and if the 3rd line can limit the chances they give up. Those two lines will probably determine how the start of the season goes. The need to mesh and get going, otherwise we're going to be relying a lot on MacK and Mikko to start the season strong.
What a fantastic post and summary. One thing I WILL say , is that with such change, chemistry and building combinations will be key, and that takes time, so we need a little patience as the top roster starts cliquing.

One thing we do know, AVS fans aren't the most patient, because their expectations are always so sky high (and rightly so).

But this is a process here. Let them build into the season, and grow together. We are going to rock the house this season.
 
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Alienblood

Registered User
Nov 22, 2021
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On one hand, yeah, dude probably knows he lost a step and isn't really an impact player anymore, so he chose a softer market knowing he'd get eaten alive in Toronto.

On the other hand, f*********ck you, ROR.
He was the Leafs best forward or certainly top 2 in the playoffs
 

JLo217

Registered User
Jul 22, 2009
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Is Tufte signed or on a PTO?

Do Ivan Ivan and someone else sent down (blanking on the name) need to be signed too?
 

Freaky Styley

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Aug 14, 2007
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When you dive into the stats... there are some ugly things here. xGF% 5v5... there were only 6 regulars who were over 50% for their preseason work. Makar, MacK, Rants, Colton, Wood, and Girard. With two guys who I think will make the team, you can extend that to 8 with Tufte and Olofsson. 9 if you include Dermy, but for the love of god he should not be. Off hand that's not the worst though. If guys are 47-48-49, whatever preseason things can ramp. Specifically with Toews, RyJo, Drouin, Nuke and Byram... that was not the case. All were below 40%. We need that whole group to be 53+ this season. It is preseason, so it isn't an alarm bell... but that is not a great piece of first evidence. We need to see that be much better to start the season. On chances, RyJo basically created almost nothing 5v5 and neither did Nuke. Those two are likely to be on a line together, they need to find chemistry. Byram and Toews bled chances against. Colton and Malinski were give away machines (even Byram had issues).

All and all... lots to clean up right now. I'm keenly interesting in RyJo and Nuke's start to the season and if the 3rd line can limit the chances they give up. Those two lines will probably determine how the start of the season goes. The need to mesh and get going, otherwise we're going to be relying a lot on MacK and Mikko to start the season strong.
A simple solution is to put Nuke with Drouin and Mack and move Rants down with RyJo. I bet we see that after 5 games max
 

AvsFan2123

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Jan 21, 2014
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Like Tiger previously mentioned, I’m a little weirded out by the contracts. Like we HAD to sign Weinstein but we didn’t send Hanzel back to juniors with one? I also would’ve signed Ivan Ivan to an ELC. I know he’s on an AHL contract, but can’t they sign him to an ELC starting 24/25 season? I’ve seen the Avs sign guys to ELC’s/NHL contracts that were previously on AHL deals but they usually do that closer to TDL around March. I also would’ve considered signing Jedlicka. From what we’ve seen it sounds like he looked really good and got praise from Bednar. Sounds like his injury is kind of serious. And like Hench mentioned, we always do seem to be wasting a contract space or two on people with literally next to nothing to offer. Beaucage, Henry, Lewis, Josh Anderson, etc.
 
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