Pre-Game Talk: 2023/24 Training Camp

[NateTheGreat]

Tatar is going to end up being a Top 6 forward for ice in ice time, he's hardly a big difference to the likes of Seguin, Pavelski, Benn.

The only guy you just listed that's going to be relied upon like a true core player is Doughty. All of the rest will be in the same "Complimentary to the core" role as the likes of Tatar/Manson.

Pavelski, Benn and Seguin were 2nd, 3rd and 6th on the Stars last year in points. I’d wager that Cogs, Tatar and RyJo won’t be anywhere near that important to the Avs.

Kopitar led the Kings in points, is their 1C and Doughty is by far their best D-man.

It’s blatantly wrong to suggest there’s hardly a big difference in those teams’ older players and ours. We can win the division with JJ, Cogs and Tatar playing poorly, if those teams players play poorly, they cannot.

 

[henchman21]

I'll argue that RyJo is the single most important player on the Avs this year. If he plays like last year, the Avs will be turning to Colton as a 2C (IE not significantly different than Compher). If he plays like his younger self, the Avs will have a great 1-2 punch. He may not end up top 6 in points, but if he doesn't that is a huge problem.

People can debate this in a million different ways. What it comes down to is the Avs are primarily in the 25-30 age with a specific concentration around 27-28 up front. Other teams have a wider distribution and that has pros and cons to it.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Pavelski, Benn and Seguin were 2nd, 3rd and 6th on the Stars last year in points. I’d wager that Cogs, Tatar and RyJo won’t be anywhere near that important to the Avs.

Kopitar led the Kings in points, is their 1C and Doughty is by far their best D-man.

It’s blatantly wrong to suggest there’s hardly a big difference in those teams’ older players and ours. We can win the division with JJ, Cogs and Tatar playing poorly, if those teams players play poorly, they cannot.

Ah, points... nevermind.

Kopitar will be the 3rd most important Center for LA this year, behind PLD who will be the 1C and Danault who will continue to be the matchup guy for them.


Also let's just say this... If Ryan Johansen isn't in the The Top 4 for points on the Avs, we're in a lot of trouble.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Pavelski, Benn and Seguin were 2nd, 3rd and 6th on the Stars last year in points. I’d wager that Cogs, Tatar and RyJo won’t be anywhere near that important to the Avs.

Kopitar led the Kings in points, is their 1C and Doughty is by far their best D-man.

It’s blatantly wrong to suggest there’s hardly a big difference in those teams’ older players and ours. We can win the division with JJ, Cogs and Tatar playing poorly, if those teams players play poorly, they cannot.

I mean RyJo is a very significant piece of this roster? If he fails this team will be in a similar spot to last year and the pre Kadri years.

 

[Avs9296]

Ah, points... nevermind.

Kopitar will be the 3rd most important Center for LA this year, behind PLD who will be the 1C and Danault who will continue to be the matchup guy for them.


Also let's just say this... If Ryan Johansen isn't in the The Top 4 for points on the Avs, we're in a lot of trouble.

You keep saying this as if it's gospel, yet Kopitar is better than both Danault and Dubois.

And yes, points matter, a lot. You win games by scoring more goals than the other team. Kopitar gets it done on both ends of the ice.

 

[AvsCOL]

Can't wait to talk about Ritchie like this in 2-3 years.

Feel the same way. I’m so glad Gulyayev was there at 31 when they picked again, because missing him would’ve haunted me. I really believe Gulyayev is going to be a huge piece in the future.

 

[The Merchant]

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I mean RyJo is a very significant piece of this roster? If he fails this team will be in a similar spot to last year and the pre Kadri years.

Another huge difference is both of those teams have young players on the roster right now expected to have increased roles this year that decreases the reliance on the old veteran guys.


Wyatt Johnston, Logan Stankoven, Quinton Byfield, Brandt Clarke... That's the new core guys for those teams moving forward. Avs simply don't have any of those type anywhere near ready to take over increased responsibility

 

[the_fan]

So we love and hate this f***en team!

Am I doing this right?

 

[Ararana]

Big Sam Malinski wearing the 'C' yesterday, and leading the team to victory.

Sam Girard [5'10" 170lbs] - Sam Malinski [5'11" 190lbs]

That can only go well.

 

[AvsGuy]

Have we seen Kiviranta and Maenalanen on the ice yet? Is there a strong chance either of those guys makes the roster? I'd like to see Kiviranta in an Avs jersey honestly

 

[NorthernAvsFan]

Francouz, when asked how often he’ll be ‘banged up’:

 

[NateTheGreat]

You keep saying this as if it's gospel, yet Kopitar is better than both Danault and Dubois.

And yes, points matter, a lot. You win games by scoring more goals than the other team. Kopitar gets it done on both ends of the ice.

Point totals are irrelevant on other teams but vital when it comes to us.

 

[John Mandalorian]

A big hope should be that the Avs find a suitable cheap option at RD. Being able to trade Girard and/or Manson can go a long way in re-signing key guys.

Even if Manson continues with the injuries like last year, the Avs will be able to trade him because of what he represents. The return might be affected but if part of the motivation is cap space, this matters less.

 

[sethro109]

If Colton does have to step into the 2nd line role that's obviously not great for us. However, I do wonder if he'll be better for us there than Compher was. Compher was a pure shutdown guy. If in reading these right, the fancy stat charts on Colton seem to show he has a lot more of an offensive upside than Compher did. If that's the case, we already have some great shutdown wingers. So I'm basically hoping that balance leads to a better 2nd line. I know it's a bit of a stretch, considering their TOI numbers. I also don't know if these things factor in the quality of opponents.

 

[henchman21]

If Colton does have to step into the 2nd line role that's obviously not great for us. However, I do wonder if he'll be better for us there than Compher was. Compher was a pure shutdown guy. If in reading these right, the fancy stat charts on Colton seem to show he has a lot more of an offensive upside than Compher did. If that's the case, we already have some great shutdown wingers. So I'm basically hoping that balance leads to a better 2nd line. I know it's a bit of a stretch, considering their TOI numbers. I also don't know if these things factor in the quality of opponents.

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Some caveats... Colton has played lower competition and had a much lesser defensive impact. I think Colton can be better than Compher on both ends of the ice, but I think the improvement would be marginal at best defensively and a few more goals offensively. Wouldn't be a huge difference. Neither would be plus guys in a top 6 role.

I really like Colton, but him being a 2C would be disastrous for the Cup chances.

 

[sethro109]

Some caveats... Colton has played lower competition and had a much lesser defensive impact. I think Colton can be better than Compher on both ends of the ice, but I think the improvement would be marginal at best defensively and a few more goals offensively. Wouldn't be a huge difference. Neither would be plus guys in a top 6 role.

I really like Colton, but him being a 2C would be disastrous for the Cup chances.

In the grand scheme a few more goals won't help us, but that would have gotten us past Seattle. And that's basically what I'm hoping for from a guy getting 3C money.

 

[henchman21]

In the grand scheme a few more goals won't help us, but that would have gotten us past Seattle. And that's basically what I'm hoping for from a guy getting 3C money.

I’d say just getting past Seattle isn’t the goal. If we’re okay making the playoffs and maybe winning a round… Colton would be fine. Anything beyond that, he’s just not that guy.

 

[sethro109]

I’d say just getting past Seattle isn’t the goal. If we’re okay making the playoffs and maybe winning a round… Colton would be fine. Anything beyond that, he’s just not that guy.

The next few years are definitely cup or bust. I was basically just trying to envision what a nightmare scenarios where RyJo doesn't work out or gets hurt after the TDL. Being down our 2C shouldn't equal a first round exit. Having a healthy Nuke back will also be huge.

 

[John Mandalorian]

The next few years are definitely cup or bust. I was basically just trying to envision what a nightmare scenarios where RyJo doesn't work out or gets hurt after the TDL. Being down our 2C shouldn't equal a first round exit. Having a healthy Nuke back will also be huge.

Though unlikely, if Rantanen plays 2C, it’s an upgrade. The offseason moves, however, suggest the front office sees him as a RW even though CM name dropped him as a 2C possibility at every opportunity last year.

 

[henchman21]

Though unlikely, if Rantanen plays 2C, it’s an upgrade. The offseason moves, however, suggest the front office sees him as a RW even though CM name dropped him as a 2C possibility at every opportunity last year.

If Rants was a legit option, he would have played there last year.

 

[John Mandalorian]

If Rants was a legit option, he would have played there last year.

I elaborated on that. He might be a nuclear option if at all.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Depends on the team, but some of those teams have an abundance of 20-24 year old guys who are looking like future key players. Avs have Byram. So while in Dallas, Seguin is regressing hard, they have Johnston who looks like a legit future 1C.

What all of this means, is the Avs window is finite. How finite is up for debate. There is a lot of history showing that pure age wise… a year or two is most likely. Three tops. That excludes the cap issues. Avs need to simply be all in because they don’t have reinforcements coming that can sustain. Win while you can

Ok so they have Johnston who might become a 1C...might being the operative word here. If he does let's say in one year then Hintz becomes their 2C but he will be turning 28 then. Two years....Hintz is now on the wrong side of 28. Ritchie by then could be our 2C.

Every window is finite. Nobody is arguing the Avs isn't old. They are one of the oldest collectively. All people are saying is that looking at the average age is misleading. Like you always say context matter. For the next couple of years they are in better shape than most of those older teams because their best players are still relatively young. Furthermore those best players are also better than any of those teams' best players (although TOR is close).

 

[henchman21]

Ok so they have Johnston who might become a 1C...might being the operative word here. If he does let's say in one year then Hintz becomes their 2C but he will be turning 28 then. Two years....Hintz is now on the wrong side of 28. Ritchie by then could be our 2C.

Every window is finite. Nobody is arguing the Avs isn't old. They are one of the oldest collectively. All people are saying is that looking at the average age is misleading. Like you always say context matter. For the next couple of years they are in better shape than most of those older teams because their best players are still relatively young. Furthermore those best players are also better than any of those teams' best players (although TOR is close).

Ritchie could also be struggling in the AHL.

People have been saying the Avs are not old and that they core is one of the younger in the league. Which is just not true. Core average is over 27 now, will be over 28 next year. Avs are an elder team now. Not the oldest... but top 5-10 depending on which way you look at it... with the only sure reserve being Byram. A number of other teams have a better set of reserves coming up.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Ritchie could also be struggling in the AHL.

People have been saying the Avs are not old and that they core is one of the younger in the league. Which is just not true. Core average is over 27 now, will be over 28 next year. Avs are an elder team now. Not the oldest... but top 5-10 depending on which way you look at it... with the only sure reserve being Byram. A number of other teams have a better set of reserves coming up.

And Johnston could be one and done. It goes both ways.

I only saw a few people say they have one of the younger core in the league. I saw a lot more people argue that they are in a better shape than the other older teams.