Rumor: 2023-24 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Season Thread

[Pierce Hawthorne]

If we’re of the belief that the Avs injuries won’t be much better this year, I don’t think the cap will be a problem for a deadline acquisition. Manson and Nuke will be on LTIR with bad ankles and they’ll be “questionable” to make a return around game 1 of the playoffs. Teams get creative at the deadline, even if it costs you a little more in assets.

It won't be an issue anyways, at least it shouldn't be. You can make a $6M player cost just $1.5M at the trade deadline with double retention.

Send MacDermid the other way in a deal and you're good to go.

Even if we don't have any injuries by the deadline, cap space should absolutely never be an excuse to not get anything done to improve the team. It just means having to get a little more creative to find solutions.

 

[Richard88]

I agree with you on this which is really a shame. The Avs should be all chips in for the next 2-3 seasons. Use LTIR, trade all the picks and use all your capspace. Don’t go down with any bullets left in the chamber.

I’d be more satisfied as a fan knowing management did all they could when they had a chance of winning as opposed to half-measures with a balance of trying to win now and an eye towards the future.

Its probably a budget issue from ownership. Im sure CMac would love to spend over the cap if he could. Getting an extra 1st for taking on the Marleau contract would have been nice too and the Avs had that capspace, but chose not to use it for some reason.

 

[henchman21]

With enough assets you can make pretty much any cap situation work. Wherewithal is more of the question. Would the Avs be ruthless to a guy like Frank or Tatar and move them if they have to? Will the Avs be willing to spend a 1st ++ if needed at the deadline? We really don't have good answers to that. The answers/assumptions we have now would actually point to no's on both.

 

[RockLobster]

With enough assets you can make pretty much any cap situation work. Wherewithal is more of the question. Would the Avs be ruthless to a guy like Frank or Tatar and move them if they have to? Will the Avs be willing to spend a 1st ++ if needed at the deadline? We really don't have good answers to that. The answers/assumptions we have now would actually point to no's on both.

While I agree pretty much with your assumption of the answer, I think I leave just enough of the door cracked open because we've seen this FO make changes we never thought they'd make before. Now, not all at once, but they started scouting more overseas, drafting Euros and Russians, taking more chances in leagues like the BCHL and AJHL, learning from their Jost mistake and not repeating it w/ Newhook (and apparently even trying to move down from the two 1st's they had, just didn't find a worthwhile deal).

Basically...I'm leaving just enough open to see how CMac runs the ship. Again, not expecting a drastic change or anything, but more open to seeing if his philosophy running the show is different than Joe's.

 

[NateTheGreat]

With enough assets you can make pretty much any cap situation work. Wherewithal is more of the question. Would the Avs be ruthless to a guy like Frank or Tatar and move them if they have to? Will the Avs be willing to spend a 1st ++ if needed at the deadline? We really don't have good answers to that. The answers/assumptions we have now would actually point to no's on both.

The results from the 2022 deadline suggest we should, the actions from all other deadlines with this group suggest we won’t. The answer like you said is probably a no until proven otherwise.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

The results from the 2022 deadline suggest we should, the actions from all other deadlines with this group suggest we won’t. The answer like you said is probably a no until proven otherwise.

Even 2022 deadline, they didn't really send out the high value assets. But it is definitely the best example of management being willing to pay to get players that will help.

Even last year they did move a 2nd for Eller... I'd venture to guess a 2nd round pick will be in play this year at the very least

 

[henchman21]

While I agree pretty much with your assumption of the answer, I think I leave just enough of the door cracked open because we've seen this FO make changes we never thought they'd make before. Now, not all at once, but they started scouting more overseas, drafting Euros and Russians, taking more chances in leagues like the BCHL and AJHL, learning from their Jost mistake and not repeating it w/ Newhook (and apparently even trying to move down from the two 1st's they had, just didn't find a worthwhile deal).

Basically...I'm leaving just enough open to see how CMac runs the ship. Again, not expecting a drastic change or anything, but more open to seeing if his philosophy running the show is different than Joe's.

The results from the 2022 deadline suggest we should, the actions from all other deadlines with this group suggest we won’t. The answer like you said is probably a no until proven otherwise.

I'd agree we have an inconclusive, but I was adamantly on the other side of this prior. Saying the Avs 22 deadline and Kuemper move showed they were wiling. Truth is, that is the only season they have gotten aggressive. That season also had some key expirations that made it more critical to try to win a Cup. They could certainly change course, but I'd say odds are much more in favor of them not spending.

 

[Tommy Shelby]

Now I'm wondering if the only reason we were so aggressive was because Sakic was tired of being GM and wanted to get his Cup before handing the reins over to Cmac. It's certainly plausible

 

[henchman21]

Now I'm wondering if the only reason we were so aggressive was because Sakic was tired of being GM and wanted to get his Cup before handing the reins over to Cmac. It's certainly plausible

IMO it was simply the contract/cap situation. They had just lost Grubi and Saad to UFA, then a rough negotiation with Landy. Then look at all the UFAs that the Avs had that summer even prior to the deadline... Kadri, Burkie, Nuke, and Kuemper. It was very plain to see that the cap and contracts were going to start having a major impact. It became a shit or get off the pot situation. Win now or maybe don't win at all.

 

[RockLobster]

IMO it was simply the contract/cap situation. They had just lost Grubi and Saad to UFA, then a rough negotiation with Landy. Then look at all the UFAs that the Avs had that summer even prior to the deadline... Kadri, Burkie, Nuke, and Kuemper. It was very plain to see that the cap and contracts were going to start having a major impact. It became a shit or get off the pot situation. Win now or maybe don't win at all.

Man that negotiation w/ Landy....

Am I the only one who felt like it didn't HAVE to go down to the wire like it did? I mean he signed, we won, he was a crucial part of it (sacrificed his knee for it and was a total f***in warrior in the PO's), but goddamn it feels like that was kind of an unneeded negotiation. Also feels like if they'd have went the full 8 years sooner that they might have gotten him for a little under 7M AAV too, though that's just me spitballing.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Man that negotiation w/ Landy....

Am I the only one who felt like it didn't HAVE to go down to the wire like it did? I mean he signed, we won, he was a crucial part of it (sacrificed his knee for it and was a total f***in warrior in the PO's), but goddamn it feels like that was kind of an unneeded negotiation. Also feels like if they'd have went the full 8 years sooner that they might have gotten him for a little under 7M AAV too, though that's just me spitballing.

It's tough to say IMO. How much did the Avs/Landy know about the significance of his knee injury at that point.

We won the very next year with Landy so it was obviously immediately well worth the contract regardless of what has happened since. But especially if it was known by the Avs brass that Landy's knee was pretty messed up and the long term future for him was kind of up in the air, I think it made sense to be a tough negotiation.

If we didn't win in 2022 I feel like a lot of people would be talking about that contract in a different way at this point.

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

Any trade is basically dollar in/dollar out. The chatter around Frank isn't about a season long LTIR, but seems like a 2 month thing.

Again, I state, 637k in extra space would be really nice to have.

Did the retention on Eller helped reduce the carryover ?
I always thought the only reason they would have retained was because they had another trade in the pipeline that didn't materialize. But I'm wondering now if there could also have been considerations given to reducing the bonus excess carryover... but I don't know enough about how the cap works to conclude... Do you know ?

 

[Foppa2118]

If the Avs don't have the injury season from hell last year, they wouldn't have had to spend $3M+ towards the cap on injury callups, and they wouldn't have $637k in bonus overage.

 

[henchman21]

Did the retention on Eller helped reduce the carryover ?
I always thought the only reason they would have retained was because they had another trade in the pipeline that didn't materialize. But I'm wondering now if there could also have been considerations given to reducing the bonus excess carryover... but I don't know enough about how the cap works to conclude... Do you know ?

Nope… bonuses are weird with cap and LTIR. There is a specific accrual for it and the Avs didn’t have a bank for it to cover the overage.

If the games played group get their bonuses, they’ll essentially add to next years cap hit.

 

[Richard88]

Just looking ahead to the TDL at who will likely be available Vs the Avs needs.

4/5 RHD looks like the biggest need. Could DeMelo be a fit to give the roster another meat-and-potatoes RHD? $3m caphit so at 50% ($1.5m) or 75% ($750k caphit) it's probably workable.

The forward group looks ok, especially with the potential Landeskog return and Kovalenko joining. A solid 4C would be useful though... Perhaps Teddy Blueger ($950k caphit @50%)?

 

[John Mandalorian]

Just looking ahead to the TDL at who will likely be available Vs the Avs needs.

4/5 RHD looks like the biggest need. Could DeMelo be a fit to give the roster another meat-and-potatoes RHD? $3m caphit so at 50% ($1.5m) or 75% ($750k caphit) it's probably workable.

The forward group looks ok, especially with the potential Landeskog return and Kovalenko joining. A solid 4C would be useful though... Perhaps Teddy Blueger ($950k caphit @50%)?

They definitely need a meat and potatoes RHD with Manson’s dedicated convalescence. One with another year wouldn’t be horrible because it potentially gives them flexibility to trade Manson in the off-season.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Just looking ahead to the TDL at who will likely be available Vs the Avs needs.

4/5 RHD looks like the biggest need. Could DeMelo be a fit to give the roster another meat-and-potatoes RHD? $3m caphit so at 50% ($1.5m) or 75% ($750k caphit) it's probably workable.

The forward group looks ok, especially with the potential Landeskog return and Kovalenko joining. A solid 4C would be useful though... Perhaps Teddy Blueger ($950k caphit @50%)?

Funny you mentioned this as I was building a cap friendly roster on my lunch break today.


The two deadline trades I had made were:

- Backlund + 5th(To 3rd team) for 2024 1st + Behrens + Meyers

- DeMelo for our 2026 2nd + MacDermid, and our 2025 4th to a 3rd team for another 50% retention.


So our playoff roster would look like:


Colton - Mackinnon - Nichushkin
Lehky - RyJo - Rantanen
Landy - Backlund - Tatar
Wood - Cogs - LOC
Kovalenko/Drouin

Toews - Makar
Byram - DeMelo
Girard - Manson
Johnson - Malinski

Georgiev
Francouz

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Funny you mentioned this as I was building a cap friendly roster on my lunch break today.


The two deadline trades I had made were:

- Backlund + 5th(To 3rd team) for 2024 1st + Behrens + Meyers

- DeMelo for our 2026 2nd + MacDermid, and our 2025 4th to a 3rd team for another 50% retention.


So our playoff roster would look like:


Colton - Mackinnon - Nichushkin
Lehky - RyJo - Rantanen
Landy - Backlund - Tatar
Wood - Cogs - LOC
Kovalenko/Drouin

Toews - Makar
Byram - DeMelo
Girard - Manson
Johnson - Malinski

Georgiev
Francouz

We need our picks from this summer to hurry up and get good enough to trade. We are rapidly running out ammunition.

That's a damn stacked roster though. If healthy that D unit...damn.

 

[Balthazar]

4/5 RHD looks like the biggest need.

This. One that can PK.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

We need our picks from this summer to hurry up and get good enough to trade. We are rapidly running out ammunition.

That's a damn stacked roster though. If healthy that D unit...damn.

The forwards look even more impressive to me


If RyJo works out, Mack/RyJo/Backlund down the middle is ridiculous and to still have the winger depth to have Landy return on the 3rd line with Backlund and Tatar... And then still have 2 guys on the bench in Drouin and Kovalenko for injuries.


That's a cup favorite group and it can work with the right retention on those players, Avs just have to be willing to put chips in the middle. Maybe Landy coming back in the playoffs would be the push they need to actually go all in this year.

 

[Richard88]

Funny you mentioned this as I was building a cap friendly roster on my lunch break today.


The two deadline trades I had made were:

- Backlund + 5th(To 3rd team) for 2024 1st + Behrens + Meyers

- DeMelo for our 2026 2nd + MacDermid, and our 2025 4th to a 3rd team for another 50% retention.


So our playoff roster would look like:


Colton - Mackinnon - Nichushkin
Lehky - RyJo - Rantanen
Landy - Backlund - Tatar
Wood - Cogs - LOC
Kovalenko/Drouin

X - Makar
Byram - DeMelo
Girard - MansonJohnson - Malinski

Georgiev
Francouz

Backlund would be really nice, but I don't foresee CMac being willing to spend a 1st++ on him when he already settled for RyJo and Colton down the middle, especially given his history of not trading 1sts at the TDL. Calgary are unlikely sellers too most likely.

With only one usable 2nd (i.e. 2026 2nd) realistically the best we could hope for is a 2nd + Behrens/Olausson sort of trade. And if that firepower is used on a RHD (which should be the priority) then any forward add would need to be done with lesser picks.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Backlund would be really nice, but I don't foresee CMac being willing to spend a 1st++ on him when he already settled for RyJo and Colton down the middle, especially given his history of not trading 1sts at the TDL. Calgary are unlikely sellers too most likely.

With only one usable 2nd (i.e. 2026 2nd) realistically the best we could hope for is a 2nd + Behrens/Olausson sort of trade. And if that firepower is used on a RHD (which should be the priority) then any forward add would need to be done with lesser picks.

Agree it's probably a dream scenario given the Avs history and willingness to trade 1sts, hopefully we're wrong and the Avs finally get aggressive though.


I can also see them targeting a winger like DeBrusk if the Drouin experience doesn't work out... But again I think it's more likely they don't do anything significant with the forwards and continue to play passive.

 

[Richard88]

Agree it's probably a dream scenario given the Avs history and willingness to trade 1sts, hopefully we're wrong and the Avs finally get aggressive though.


I can also see them targeting a winger like DeBrusk if the Drouin experience doesn't work out... But again I think it's more likely they don't do anything significant with the forwards and continue to play passive.

If Landeskog returns the roster would be pretty stacked even with "just" adding DeMelo and a good 4C like Blueger.

Landeskog - MacKinnon - Nichushkin
Lehkonen - RyJo - Rantanen
Wood - Colton - Kovalenko
Cogliano - Blueger - LOC
Tatar, Drouin, Meyers, etc.

Toews - Makar
Byram - Manson
Girard - DeMelo
JJ, Malinski, MacDermid

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I kinda hope that one of Cogliano, Meyers, or Ondrej step up and make spending assets on a 4C not necessary. I can't remember has Riley Tufte played center before? Could he be in the mix at camp?

 

[Balthazar]

Someone please start the official 2023-24 injury thread