Rumor: 2023-24 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Season Thread

[The Abusement Park]

Yeah, and I think Dahlin and Power are going to be quite a bit ahead of Hughes/Nemec.

Yeah I don’t think they quite hit franchise level dmen. But if you to get say a Morgan Rielly out of Hughes and a Toews out of Nemec those two that defense would be as good as almost any defense would out there.

And still to be decided in Buffalo obviously, but I think NJD’s forward composition is better at the moment. Elite franchise C in Hughes and a ~70pt selke contender at 2C. Doesn’t get much better than that.

 

[redacted]

And give Kaut a real chance, too.

By all accounts, he's worked hard for the opportunity.

 

[Balthazar]

By all accounts, he's worked hard for the opportunity.

This happened several times, too.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

When the Avalanche fall off happens, does everyone think they'll try to hang on for 2 decades like Detroit? Or eternally like NY? Or do we think they've learned?

They'll definitely try to hang on... Honestly it'll be pretty painful as fans anyway.


I think most of us(Well, maybe most of us us) are going to recognize that the window has closed and that the team is regressing but they'll continue to push to be a playoff team with this group. Likely resulting in a lot of very mediocre years where we're a bottom seed in the playoffs and 1st or 2nd round fodder for the real contenders.


The most frustrating part will likely be all the decent futures assets we end up giving up just to continue being a bottom half playoff team with no real hope to actually win. Basically the Caps/Pens of the last few years(Pens have a small chance at one last decent run this year at least for them), or San Jose from 3-4 years ago.

 

[redacted]

This happened several times, too.

It was pretty much a yearly occurrence.

 

[Foppa2118]

Well at least we've finally admitted the Zadorov can't improve after 25 meme was wrong, by pointing out his best seasons were the last two at 27 and 28.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Yeah I don’t think they quite hit franchise level dmen. But if you to get say a Morgan Rielly out of Hughes and a Toews out of Nemec those two that defense would be as good as almost any defense would out there.

And still to be decided in Buffalo obviously, but I think NJD’s forward composition is better at the moment. Elite franchise C in Hughes and a ~70pt selke contender at 2C. Doesn’t get much better than that.

I dunno. I think Buffalo can match New Jersey down the middle. I like Thompson just as much as Hughes personally, especially his size for once the playoff hockey starts.

Same thing with Cozens. He's not as strong of a two way guy as Hischier though but I still think that combo in Buffalo will be right up alongside New Jersey in a couple years.



The thing about Buffalo is they have a ridiculous number of good prospects right now that stand to further bolster that forward group. Benson, Savoie, Ostlund, Kulich, Rosen, Quinn. All 1st round picks in the last 4 years and with the exception of Kluich they were all Top 16 picks as well.

I think they're a year or two behind New Jersey but once a couple of those kids get to the NHL and start having an impact they're quickly gonna be among the very best in the league IMO.

I think they're a playoff team next year tbh but not a real cup threat quite yet.

 

[Foppa2118]

Both things can be true. Manson played a role in the cup win for sure. But it’s looking like a Bickell situation here.

Sure it's possible, but we're comparing a relatively healthy Manson who played well in the Cup run, to a Manson who tried to play most of last year with a high ankle sprain he kept re-injuring.

Wouldn't the difference in play that was separated by just a few months, by far most likely be due to injury, and not a sudden over night regression?

The way I see it, it's totally fair to call him injury prone and talk about the risk associated with that, but much of the conversation about Manson is just that he sucks now. Meaning when he's healthy.

It's not really fair or accurate to use the games he played when injured to support a view on how he plays when healthy.

 

[JLo217]

They'll definitely try to hang on... Honestly it'll be pretty painful as fans anyway.


I think most of us(Well, maybe most of us us) are going to recognize that the window has closed and that the team is regressing but they'll continue to push to be a playoff team with this group. Likely resulting in a lot of very mediocre years where we're a bottom seed in the playoffs and 1st or 2nd round fodder for the real contenders.


The most frustrating part will likely be all the decent futures assets we end up giving up just to continue being a bottom half playoff team with no real hope to actually win. Basically the Caps/Pens of the last few years(Pens have a small chance at one last decent run this year at least for them), or San Jose from 3-4 years ago.

For sure. That's why I'm hoping they go hard this year. It's gonna be hard when Georgie, Byram and Rants are all up for UFA. Unless the cap skyrockets.

After that, make smart moves and keep drafting. Get some high end guys and let them learn under Mack.

 

[95snipes]

I like Buffalo almost as much as New Jersey tbh. I think they'll have the even better Defense and goaltending. Just a question of how deep the forwards can become but they have a pretty damn good Center punch to go up against the Devils in that regard as well.

I think their forward depth will be tremendous.

Thompson / Tuch / Cozens / Peterka / Quinn are already established or well on their way.

I'm a pretty big fan of all of Benson / Kulich / Wahlberg / Ostlund / Savoie as prospects. I think they all have legit top 6 potential and should be NHL players in some capacity.

Then you still have Krebs / Mittlestadt / Greenway / Jost? / Rosen / Miedema / Rousek / Weissbach as guys who could establish roles for themselves.

If things go semi well for the Sabres, they could have an insane forward group. Still maybe 2 years away from legit contention, but after so many dark years, its a great time to be a Sabres fan.

 

[redacted]

Hughes will be a top 15 level defensemen (not sure he's offensively gifted enough to be much higher)... Dahlin will be above that and Power below. Nemec is probably more of a #2 at best sorta guy. Where I think New Jersey gets underrated on defense is beyond those guys. Hamilton will regress, but he's still very good. Siegenthaler has turned into one of the best pure shutdown guys in the league... he's fantastic and still in his prime. Same with Marino. The last two should have a good 3-4 seasons left. Then you have Bahl who should be a nice depth piece and add a lot of physical edge.

Then the guy that nobody talks about Seamus Casey. He's going to be a phenomenal middle pairing puck mover. Especially when you see he'll be fairly well insulated size wise.

After Dahlin and Power for Buffalo you have Samuelsson who should be a Siegenthaler sorta guy. After him though a lot more question marks exist. They need one more top 4 guy and they probably need to be a high end puck mover sort too. IMO they should hockey trade one of the young great NHL forwards for the best RD they can get.

 

[sethro109]

Since we don't have a dedicated off-season thread to talk about the team. I'm gonna post this here.



I think Girard is gonna have a big season for us. He looks healthy again and at 25 he should be primed to go. His movements in the video are much better than at the beginning of last season and the year before.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Sure it's possible, but we're comparing a relatively healthy Manson who played well in the Cup run, to a Manson who tried to play most of last year with a high ankle sprain he kept re-injuring.

Wouldn't the difference in play that was separated by just a few months, by far most likely be due to injury, and not a sudden over night regression?

The way I see it, it's totally fair to call him injury prone and talk about the risk associated with that, but much of the conversation about Manson is just that he sucks now. Meaning when he's healthy.

It's not really fair or accurate to use the games he played when injured to support a view on how he plays when healthy.

But it’s not only this year. He’s been regressing for years. He had a good playoffs, but is still a far less impactful player than he was a few years ago. Add in the constant injuries and it’s certainly not going to help his long term impact as a player. If he wasn’t 31 I think there’d be less pushback on his contract and the prospect of him on the backend. But he’s a guy who’s been regressing, has been highly injured, and plays a style that ages by far the worst of any in the league. Plenty of reason to be concerned.

That doesn’t mean he didn’t have a positive impact on the team when he joined and played a part in the cup run. Both things can true.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I think their forward depth will be tremendous.

Thompson / Tuch / Cozens / Peterka / Quinn are already established or well on their way.

I'm a pretty big fan of all of Benson / Kulich / Wahlberg / Ostlund / Savoie as prospects. I think they all have legit top 6 potential and should be NHL players in some capacity.

Then you still have Krebs / Mittlestadt / Greenway / Jost? / Rosen / Miedema / Rousek / Weissbach as guys who could establish roles for themselves.

If things go semi well for the Sabres, they could have an insane forward group. Still maybe 2 years away from legit contention, but after so many dark years, its a great time to be a Sabres fan.

Yeah they have a pretty nasty group of forwards coming up in the next couple of years...


But I also agree with Hency that they need 1 more Dman to fill out that group. I think Power is going to be a borderline Top 10D in the game, he'll still need a partner to play big minutes with him.


Samuelsson - Dahlin
Power - xxxx

Girard would fill that Top 4 out very nicely especially if he could prove he can play the Right side at a high level this year(But at the same time having 4 LHD in your Top 4 still isn't ideal).

 

[Foppa2118]

But it’s not only this year. He’s been regressing for years. He had a good playoffs, but is still a far less impactful player than he was a few years ago. Add in the constant injuries and it’s certainly not going to help his long term impact as a player. If he wasn’t 31 I think there’d be less pushback on his contract and the prospect of him on the backend. But he’s a guy who’s been regressing, has been highly injured, and plays a style that ages by far the worst of any in the league. Plenty of reason to be concerned.

That doesn’t mean he didn’t have a positive impact on the team when he joined and played a part in the cup run. Both things can true.

The problem with this "he's been regressing for years" thing is it's pretty ambiguous as to how much, and it's based on others subjective opinions who can be wrong or exaggerate the extent.

We also don't know if those evaluations are based on him playing injured, just like the evaluation of him last year.

Either way, if he really did regress before coming to Colorado, but he still played at the level he did in the playoffs, that's a positive sign that he can play that way again, as long as he's not playing with one leg essentially.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I dunno. I think Buffalo can match New Jersey down the middle. I like Thompson just as much as Hughes personally, especially his size for once the playoff hockey starts.

Same thing with Cozens. He's not as strong of a two way guy as Hischier though but I still think that combo in Buffalo will be right up alongside New Jersey in a couple years.



The thing about Buffalo is they have a ridiculous number of good prospects right now that stand to further bolster that forward group. Benson, Savoie, Ostlund, Kulich, Rosen, Quinn. All 1st round picks in the last 4 years and with the exception of Kluich they were all Top 16 picks as well.

I think they're a year or two behind New Jersey but once a couple of those kids get to the NHL and start having an impact they're quickly gonna be among the very best in the league IMO.

I think they're a playoff team next year tbh but not a real cup threat quite yet.

We’ll see. I certainly believe in this Buffalo rebuild, but the Devils forward core is the thing of dreams right now. Not potentially. Hughes and Thompson are probably a wash, but even as a huge Cozens guy I don’t think he matches Hischier.

And I think the Devils have a comfortable advantage on the wings right now. Obviously there’s talent thats young and in the pipeline for the Sabres but I think the Devils are more talented and well rounded there while still having Holtz in the pipeline.

Regardless both teams are set up incredibly well to contend and both play entertaining af hockey which is awesome.

 

[The Abusement Park]

The problem with this "he's been regressing for years" thing is it's pretty ambiguous as to how much, and it's based on others subjective opinions who can be wrong or exaggerate the extent.

We also don't know if those evaluations are based on him playing injured, just like the evaluation of him last year.

Either way, if he really did regress before coming to Colorado, but he still played at the level he did in the playoffs, that's a positive sign that he can play that way again, as long as he's not playing with one leg essentially.

It’s not that ambiguous. He‘s gone through normal regression ages, plays a very physical style and has had tons of injuries. It’s a bad combo. I don’t think he’s as bad as he was in the playoffs, but the talk of him regressing certainly isn’t unfounded.

 

[RockLobster]

Peter Holland lol

 

[Valushkin]

So I guess no one gives a shit about that Holland dude signing a PTO with the Avs. Don’t see anything about it, and I do believe I’m on the Avs board

 

[Foppa2118]

It’s not that ambiguous. He‘s gone through normal regression ages, plays a very physical style and has had tons of injuries. It’s a bad combo. I don’t think he’s as bad as he was in the playoffs, but the talk opinions. him regressing certainly isn’t unfounded.

How much he supposedly regressed in Anaheim and whether it was while playing injured is what's ambiguous. Especially when it's based on other's opinions, often from the more negative fans.

A slight regression even when healthy isn't that big a deal. But the talka bout him is like he turned into Nate Guenin.

 

[95snipes]

Yeah they have a pretty nasty group of forwards coming up in the next couple of years...


But I also agree with Hency that they need 1 more Dman to fill out that group. I think Power is going to be a borderline Top 10D in the game, he'll still need a partner to play big minutes with him.


Samuelsson - Dahlin
Power - xxxx

Girard would fill that Top 4 out very nicely especially if he could prove he can play the Right side at a high level this year(But at the same time having 4 LHD in your Top 4 still isn't ideal).

Agree they could use another minute eater back there. I think we see a deal along the lines of 1 of Quinn/Peterka + 1 of Ostlund/Wahlberg/Rosen + a high pick for an impact blueliner in the next 12-18 months. I doubt they'd move Kulich or Benson. Maybe Savoie for the right player.

 

[Foppa2118]

How much of it does anyone believe is authentic vs schtick?

There are people on here who have claimed to not care what others think but confront others every time they even slightly disagree with them.

I don't know, but aside from forsberg I do think there are some people just trolling to start arguments. . I'm also getting the feeling like they may be the same person. So you may be right with your question.

 

[CobraAcesS]

All of the talk about how bad Manson supposedly is now, is based on him playing most of last year with a high ankle sprain that's notoriously easy to re-injure.

And you know it was bad when a guy like Josh Manson couldn't even play in the playoffs because of it.

If you acknowledge he played well and played a part in them winning the Cup, then you shouldn't think he went from that to dog shit in just a few months. That doesn't make any sense.

Which is why I'm hopeful but concerned.

 

[Foppa2118]

Which is why I'm hopeful but concerned.

That's fair. His injury history specifically is concerning.

They need him healthy without EJ. JJ can't be the only phsycial defenseman with size.

Also why I think ideally they could use another top 4 capable LD with size. If they move Girard or Toews, this is the kind of D man they should replace them with.

 

[Avsboy]

Manson is an important piece of the D group and complements Girard well. He’s worth it. I wish they had kept EJ