Rumor: 2023-24 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Season Thread

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

I think on paper this team should be good. Hell, I even said that I thought this team is deeper than the cup team, but chemistry is just way too important. Losing so many key guys and replacing them with bunch of guys who never played together will have this type of struggles.

For example, if Vegas lost Stone which is Landy for us, Stephenson I guess would be Kadri, and one of their bottom pair D and another bottom 6 forward which would equal EJ and JTC, there is no way in hell they can win right away no matter who they replace them with

Vegas replaces guys they lose. And upgrades the team.

When's the last time the team objectively improved? Since 2020 they've consistently lost talent aside from the 2022 deadline when they obviously loaded up and it paid off.

The question isn't how long will it take to replace the lost pieces but can they replace the lost pieces?

Cmacs hands were tied last year with losing Landy and being a new GM it's hard to dismantle a cup defending team. So it's hard to blame him for not really making any moves.

This offseason he dumpster dove and so far other teams trash looks like our teams trash too.

 

[the_fan]

Vegas replaces guys they lose. And upgrades the team.

When's the last time the team objectively improved? Since 2020 they've consistently lost talent aside from the 2022 deadline when they obviously loaded up and it paid off.

The question isn't how long will it take to replace the lost pieces but can they replace the lost pieces?

Cmacs hands were tied last year with losing Landy and being a new GM it's hard to dismantle a cup defending team. So it's hard to blame him for not really making any moves.

This offseason he dumpster dove and so far other teams trash looks like our teams trash too.

They haven’t lost key players though, other than Reilly Smith which they replaced with Barbashev. Stephenson is a UFA next year, and they might not be able to resign him. Marchessault is also a UFA. Next year might be the year Vegas loses real key players and unable to replace them like the Avs did

 

[the_fan]

Not to nitpick but Stone is significantly higher in Vegas food chain than Landy was here. He's their #1 or #2 best forward, depending if you have Eichel ahead of him or not.

Also I don't know if it's relevant but cup year Kadri was a one year thing, even if we'd have kept him. Look at how he plays now...or how he was playing the previous season. That's the real Kadri.

Or maybe if Kadri stayed with the Avs he’d continue to produce at PPG level. He fit in really well with the Avs, not so much with Calgary

 

[GeoRox89]

When you think about what Avs lost since the cup win, it’s not surprising at all what’s happening to them right now.

Landy- captain, power forward, point production and two way game

Kadri- 80 plus point season 2C, heart and soul guy

JTC- while he’s not a top 6 forward, he was a very solid 3C for this team who was with them for a long time

EJ- another heart and soul guy and was a very solid bottom pair D and a leader, longest tenure player on the Avs

Burakovsky- very nice depth winger who could score 20 plus goals and 50 to 60 points


Those are not easy to replace overnight. It’s gonna take time

The biggest problem when it comes to replacing guys is that our amateur scouting has been downright awful

Look at the Hawks, they lost lots of players between their Cup wins but had guys like Crawford, Bickell (he was insane that one year), Saad, Shaw, Kruger and Teravainen that were all Chicago draft picks who won 1-2 Cups with them but were not on the 2010 team. Oduya for a 2nd and 3rd was a great Sakic style pickup who contributed significantly to those other 2 runs.

Boston somehow continues to be competitive for over a decade and now without Bergeron and Krejci despite completely flubbing the 2015 draft.

Our situation would be very different right now if Newhook was a 2C and we’d hit on some of our other picks outside the top 10.

 

[the_fan]

The biggest problem when it comes to replacing guys is that our amateur scouting has been downright awful

Look at the Hawks, they lost lots of players between their Cup wins but had guys like Crawford, Bickell (he was insane that one year), Saad, Shaw, Kruger and Teravainen that were all Chicago draft picks who won 1-2 Cups with them but were not on the 2010 team. Oduya for a 2nd and 3rd was a great Sakic style pickup who contributed significantly to those other 2 runs.

Boston somehow continues to be competitive for over a decade and now without Bergeron and Krejci despite completely flubbing the 2015 draft.

Our situation would be very different right now if Newhook was a 2C and we’d hit on some of our other picks outside the top 10.

No argument there as far as Avs and drafting or lack there of outside the top 10 picks. That’s why they have to trade for a guy like Colton or sign a UFA like Wood because they can’t draft bottom 6 forwards

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

They haven’t lost key players though, other than Reilly Smith which they replaced with Barbashev. Stephenson is a UFA next year, and they might not be able to resign him. Marchessault is also a UFA. Next year might be the year Vegas loses real key players and unable to replace them like the Avs did

Part of this is their pro activeness in getting rid of guys so they have the cap space and roster spots and don't need to lose those important guys.

It does remain to be seen how their management team will do in the post cup seasons.

The Avs could have dumped EJ and not re upped Manson last off season. Or if Cmacs mind was made up that JTC wasn't going to be there long term then trading him for a piece that fits better.

That and not getting good value from drafted players has really been the killer for the Avs.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

The way Mack is playing right now has nothing to do with chemistry. He has never been a high IQ player but right now he is playing like a LOW IQ player.

 

[the_fan]

Part of this is their pro activeness in getting rid of guys so they have the cap space and roster spots and don't need to lose those important guys.

It does remain to be seen how their management team will do in the post cup seasons.

The Avs could have dumped EJ and not re upped Manson last off season. Or if Cmacs mind was made up that JTC wasn't going to be there long term then trading him for a piece that fits better.

That and not getting good value from drafted players has really been the killer for the Avs.

We really can’t compare the Avs to Vegas because they are built differently. Avs are more superstar focused, where Vegas just has a roster full of solid players who bought into their system from top to bottom. They’re tough to play against because they rarely make mistakes and they don’t give you much. Gotta earn it against that team.

Avs are built more like, hey MacK, Mikko and Cale, go win us the game. We still won the cup without using bogus LTIR though, so f*** Vegas. We had more impressive cup run and a very deep team. Not sure how we get to that again, but I hope we do it at least one more time.

I get the not resigning Manson argument, but with EJ also pretty much being done, or nowhere near a top 4 D, the Avs would still need to find a top 4 right handed D. We’ve seen how G and Bo on a pair just doesn’t work

Also JTC was becoming a UFA, how much would they get for him if they traded him? And he definitely isn’t worth the 5 mill he got

 

[CobraAcesS]

Or maybe if Kadri stayed with the Avs he’d continue to produce at PPG level. He fit in really well with the Avs, not so much with Calgary

Yeah, I don't regret losing Kadri for some reason. I think he'd have done the same thing here. Very inconsistent effort levels.

Ryjo is the same, different, but they have that in common. Too bad this isn't a contract year lol, but he'll be even more motivated next year.

Remember how frustrated we were with Kadri before that year?

You don't commit to these guys, you ride them, and jump off before they go over the cliff.

 

[Muffin]

It’s 10 games into the season with a lot of new players. Chemistry will come, the team is literally 7-3. I’d think were the Oilers the way people are talking about the team here.

 

[the_fan]

Yeah, I don't regret losing Kadri for some reason. I think he'd have done the same thing here. Very inconsistent effort levels.

Ryjo is the same, different, but they have that in common. Too bad this isn't a contract year lol, but he'll be even more motivated next year.

Remember how frustrated we were with Kadri before that year?

You don't commit to these guys, you ride them, and jump off before they go over the cliff.

Yeah, I mean I wouldn’t give Kadri what Calgary gave him, but Avs offered him lesser term and little less money, and I wouldn’t mind having Naz back for that. Even if he didn’t put up 80 plus points, he’d still produce very well as a 2C for the Avs. He’d still put up at least 60 points or so and be that tough to play against guy.

Not sure how else the Avs could find that legit 2C. Maybe they could trade bunch of stuff for Lindholm and give him all Landy LTIR money, but then what? They would have to build the bottom 6 with waiver pick ups or unproven prospects on ELC

 

[the_fan]

It’s 10 games into the season with a lot of new players. Chemistry will come, the team is literally 7-3. I’d think we’re the Oilers the way people are talking about the team here.

That’s exactly what this team needs right now. Chemistry

 

[CobraAcesS]

Yeah, I mean I wouldn’t give Kadri what Calgary gave him, but Avs offered him lesser term and little less money, and I wouldn’t mind having Naz back for that. Even if he didn’t put up 80 plus points, he’d still produce very well as a 2C for the Avs. He’d still put up at least 60 points or so and be that tough to play against guy.

Not sure how else the Avs could find that legit 2C. Maybe they could trade bunch of stuff for Lindholm and give him all Landy LTIR money, but then what? They would have to build the bottom 6 with waiver pick ups or unproven prospects on ELC

If he had done what Towes did, sure. He didn't though.

Ryjo is a good shot, Bednar knows him, and has a positive history of getting the best out of him when he was younger.

I'm at least willing to give it a bit.

It's early in the season tbH, on the hardest team to play for with one of the most demanding coaches that plays with his lineup like my 5yr old plays with his food.

Actually Tartar sort of pisses me off the most if anyone wants my opinion. Basically does nothing, doesn't create, doesn't jam, but leaches points being about as effective as an oven warmer.

Drouin takes chances, makes plays, and his skill is evident. He still is a 2D forward that needs to be used right, but the things he does well are high end like Bura in a way.

Although I'm not really going to cry over it if he fails. He can be zeroed out with a waiver. That was some balls, considering his contract can actually be wiped out.

It would be great if everything clicked right off, but it didn't. Let's watch some hockey, and see what this team turns into.

 

[the_fan]

If he had done what Towes did, sure. He didn't though.

Ryjo is a good shot, Bednar knows him, and has a positive history of getting the best out of him when he was younger.

I'm at least willing to give it a bit.

It's early in the season tbH, on the hardest team to play for with one of the most demanding coaches that plays with his lineup like my 5yr old plays with his food.

Actually Tartar sort of pisses me off the most if anyone wants my opinion. Basically does nothing, doesn't create, doesn't jam, but leaches points being about as effective as an oven warmer.

Drouin takes chances, makes plays, and his skill is evident. He still is a 2D forward that needs to be used right, but the things he does well are high end like Bura in a way.

Although I'm not really going to cry over it if he fails. He can be zeroed out with a waiver. That was some balls, considering his contract can actually be wiped out.

It would be great if everything clicked right off, but it didn't. Let's watch some hockey, and see what this team turns into.

I still say it’s way too early and Avs have way too many new players for things to work quickly. Need more time.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I still say it’s way too early and Avs have way too many new players for things to work quickly. Need more time.

It's funny, we both are pretty harsh critics, but still part of few people saying that.

Like.. in January if it's still a shit show I'll be holding a pitchfork, but not yet lol.

 

[the_fan]

It's funny, we both are pretty harsh critics, but still part of few people saying that.

Like.. in January if it's still a shit show I'll be holding a pitchfork, but not yet lol.

I’m willing to go little bit more. I’ll give it until March then go full panic mode if things aren’t better by then.

And by better I mean if the Avs don’t look like they can win the cup, because they don’t right now

 

[lionsDen]

All I heard this summer… wha are the Ava doing… why haven’t they signed Tatar!!! ^smh*

 

[dahrougem2]

It’s 10 games into the season with a lot of new players. Chemistry will come, the team is literally 7-3. I’d think were the Oilers the way people are talking about the team here.

I've ripped on them (I think rightfully so after their most recent road stretch) but yeah, to put things into perspective after 10 games the Avs are:

3rd in the NHL in Corsi
3rd in Scoring Chance %
3rd in High Danger %
28th in Shooting %
26th in Save %
30th in PDO

To me, this signifies that either the Avs are going to be unlucky for the entire regular season (unlikely) or the shooting/goaltending will improve and a lot more of those scoring chances and high danger chances will start going in.

Obviously I think that number for goaltending gets skewed after the Vegas loss, because Georgiev was great the first 6 games of the season before the most recent stretch of road games.

The Avs have 4(!) high danger goals at even strength this season. That's just 1 more than the last place San Jose Sharks

Compare this to a team like the Vancouver Canucks, who have generated 20 less high danger chances yet have scored 14 more goals from high danger areas than the Avs have.

Oh btw, for those amazed by the Golden Knights' hot start consider this:

They are currently a 45% Corsi team and have been outchanced, both overall and high danger, through their first 13 games of the season. They have actually given up the 2nd most high danger chances in the league with only San Jose ahead of them. So unless Adin Hill is somehow the new Patrick Roy/Dominik Hasek I think some serious regression is on the way for Vegas.

 

[The Moops]

I've ripped on them (I think rightfully so after their most recent road stretch) but yeah, to put things into perspective after 10 games the Avs are:

3rd in the NHL in Corsi
3rd in Scoring Chance %
3rd in High Danger %
28th in Shooting %
26th in Save %
30th in PDO

To me, this signifies that either the Avs are going to be unlucky for the entire regular season (unlikely) or the shooting/goaltending will improve and a lot more of those scoring chances and high danger chances will start going in.

Obviously I think that number for goaltending gets skewed after the Vegas loss, because Georgiev was great the first 6 games of the season before the most recent stretch of road games.

The Avs have 4(!) high danger goals at even strength this season. That's just 1 more than the last place San Jose Sharks

Compare this to a team like the Vancouver Canucks, who have generated 20 less high danger chances yet have scored 14 more goals from high danger areas than the Avs have.

Oh btw, for those amazed by the Golden Knights' hot start consider this:

They are currently a 45% Corsi team and have been outchanced, both overall and high danger, through their first 13 games of the season. They have actually given up the 2nd most high danger chances in the league with only San Jose ahead of them. So unless Adin Hill is somehow the new Patrick Roy/Dominik Hasek I think some serious regression is on the way for Vegas.

Great context, thanks!

 

[Pokecheque]

Exactly this, it was just 29 spitting the truth. The team looks completely off.

2nd line sucks because RyJo sucks because he can't even remotely generate offense. 3rd line works hard but isn't producing and 4th line is whatever. And 29 and 96 aren't playing to their capabilities.

All this equals complete suck and getting shutout 3 times in 4 games.

Agreed on all points.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

RyJo is so frustrating to watch as you can see all that natural skill and vision, and if he had any form of conditioning or regular effort he’d be so good.

 

[Alienblood]

If he had done what Towes did, sure. He didn't though.

Ryjo is a good shot, Bednar knows him, and has a positive history of getting the best out of him when he was younger.

I'm at least willing to give it a bit.

It's early in the season tbH, on the hardest team to play for with one of the most demanding coaches that plays with his lineup like my 5yr old plays with his food.

Actually Tartar sort of pisses me off the most if anyone wants my opinion. Basically does nothing, doesn't create, doesn't jam, but leaches points being about as effective as an oven warmer.

Drouin takes chances, makes plays, and his skill is evident. He still is a 2D forward that needs to be used right, but the things he does well are high end like Bura in a way.

Although I'm not really going to cry over it if he fails. He can be zeroed out with a waiver. That was some balls, considering his contract can actually be wiped out.

It would be great if everything clicked right off, but it didn't. Let's watch some hockey, and see what this team turns into.

precisely, Tatar sucks

 

[Metallo]

That’s exactly what this team needs right now. Chemistry

Looking at you Nuke.

 

[missionAvs]

I've ripped on them (I think rightfully so after their most recent road stretch) but yeah, to put things into perspective after 10 games the Avs are:

3rd in the NHL in Corsi
3rd in Scoring Chance %
3rd in High Danger %
28th in Shooting %
26th in Save %
30th in PDO

To me, this signifies that either the Avs are going to be unlucky for the entire regular season (unlikely) or the shooting/goaltending will improve and a lot more of those scoring chances and high danger chances will start going in.

Obviously I think that number for goaltending gets skewed after the Vegas loss, because Georgiev was great the first 6 games of the season before the most recent stretch of road games.

The Avs have 4(!) high danger goals at even strength this season. That's just 1 more than the last place San Jose Sharks

Compare this to a team like the Vancouver Canucks, who have generated 20 less high danger chances yet have scored 14 more goals from high danger areas than the Avs have.

Oh btw, for those amazed by the Golden Knights' hot start consider this:

They are currently a 45% Corsi team and have been outchanced, both overall and high danger, through their first 13 games of the season. They have actually given up the 2nd most high danger chances in the league with only San Jose ahead of them. So unless Adin Hill is somehow the new Patrick Roy/Dominik Hasek I think some serious regression is on the way for Vegas.

This makes me feel a little better but I'm still pissed off. It's not the fact that we've lost 3 games, that doesn't bug me anywhere near that much. It's the fact we've been blanked on our only 3 losses of the season. That's got to be some record no? We've been shutout more than the Sharks this season lol.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

I've ripped on them (I think rightfully so after their most recent road stretch) but yeah, to put things into perspective after 10 games the Avs are:

3rd in the NHL in Corsi
3rd in Scoring Chance %
3rd in High Danger %
28th in Shooting %
26th in Save %
30th in PDO

To me, this signifies that either the Avs are going to be unlucky for the entire regular season (unlikely) or the shooting/goaltending will improve and a lot more of those scoring chances and high danger chances will start going in.

Obviously I think that number for goaltending gets skewed after the Vegas loss, because Georgiev was great the first 6 games of the season before the most recent stretch of road games.

The Avs have 4(!) high danger goals at even strength this season. That's just 1 more than the last place San Jose Sharks

Compare this to a team like the Vancouver Canucks, who have generated 20 less high danger chances yet have scored 14 more goals from high danger areas than the Avs have.

Oh btw, for those amazed by the Golden Knights' hot start consider this:

They are currently a 45% Corsi team and have been outchanced, both overall and high danger, through their first 13 games of the season. They have actually given up the 2nd most high danger chances in the league with only San Jose ahead of them. So unless Adin Hill is somehow the new Patrick Roy/Dominik Hasek I think some serious regression is on the way for Vegas.

Love this post. No reason to panic. Regular season is good time to build the team up. It's not finished product yet, not even close.