Rumor: 2023-24 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Season Thread

[Richard88]

I disagree. You have to remember that this is a league that always has some GM with his head up his ass willing to pay or acquire players that think they'll be a difference maker. Didn't the Blue Jackets give up a 4X4 contract to a guy like Erik Gudbranson ? This is after he bounced around a bunch of teams and pretty much proved he was a depth guy - they were still willing to pay up to sign him as a UFA.

I'm quite certain that if Manson becomes available at some point that Kenny Holland and the Edmonton Loilers will look at him as the missing piece to what they are trying to do overthere, hopefully by trading for a 2X Stanley Cup Champion at that point.



But we've kind of gone through this though. It wasn't that they thought Newhook was the answer - they HOPED he was the answer and it didn't work. They figured they could address it at the TDL - after all, it worked out 1 year prior but when the TDL rolled around, other teams were all too prepared to make them pay TBL prices for whoever the Avs wanted and with Landeskog's uncertainty + the general health of the team overall, Avs management decided they wouldn't pay those outrageous prices.

Look at the return they got when they decided to address it after the season -> a 1st round pick + Colton in exchange for Newhook was an insane trade and I don't care how many points Newhook puts up for the Habs. Colton is the guy that was needed in that #3C slot and that trade wasn't available at the TDL for sure as Tampa was gearing up for the playoffs themselves.

I know people want the Avs to win every single year but that's going to be pretty tough to do. We have another good shot at it this season and with a much better team with fewer holes this go around.

I hope you're right about Manson, and it's certainly a possibility given how silly GM's can be. Logically though it's going to cost to move him. Gudbranson isn't a great comparable as he came as a package deal with Gaudreau as his best friend.

 

[JH21]

I hope you're right about Manson, and it's certainly a possibility given how silly GM's can be. Logically though it's going to cost to move him. Gudbranson isn't a great comparable as he came as a package deal with Gaudreau as his best friend.

This is rediculous. Manson is still a stud top 4 Dman. Teams would be lining up to get him for his intangibles and locker room presence alone.

2 games in and Bednar has already experimented with dropping Drouin down the lineup because of poor play.

It can happen very soon if he does not play well.

Hate to say I told you so.. but I told you so.

 

[Pokecheque]

ch proved he was a depth guy - they were still willing to pay up to sign him as a But we've kind of gone through this though. It wasn't that they thought Newhook was the answer - they HOPED he was the answer and it didn't work. They figured they could address it at the TDL - after all, it worked out 1 year prior but when the TDL rolled around, other teams were all too prepared to make them pay TBL prices for whoever the Avs wanted and with Landeskog's uncertainty + the general health of the team overall, Avs management decided they wouldn't pay those outrageous prices.

Look at the return they got when they decided to address it after the season -> a 1st round pick + Colton in exchange for Newhook was an insane trade and I don't care how many points Newhook puts up for the Habs. Colton is the guy that was needed in that #3C slot and that trade wasn't available at the TDL for sure as Tampa was gearing up for the playoffs themselves.

I know people want the Avs to win every single year but that's going to be pretty tough to do. We have another good shot at it this season and with a much better team with fewer holes this go around.

I promise you the coaches knew Newhook wasn’t the answer. Management may have hoped but the coaches knew.

For them to head into a championship defense having painted themselves into a corner like that was just plain stupid. And I get you can’t go for it every year but they still should’ve tried last year.

 

[Markster]

I just had a look over at calgarypuck. The natives are getting restless about Kadri. As much as I loved what he did for us and as much as there is still a gaping hole at 2C, letting him walk keeps looking better for the Avs.

Not that I blame him in the slightest. If somebody offered me that kind of money I wouldn't hesitate either.

 

[Pokecheque]

I just had a look over at calgarypuck. The natives are getting restless about Kadri. As much as I loved what he did for us and as much as there is still a gaping hole at 2C, letting him walk keeps looking better for the Avs.

Not that I blame him in the slightest. If somebody offered me that kind of money I wouldn't hesitate either.

Kadri isn’t even close to being the biggest issue in Calgary.

 

[Grigowski]

Patrick Kane wont be coming to Colorado...... And thats it.

He prefers other destinations and we dont have the cap to get it done either.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Some great conversations going on in here, so instead of quoting a whole bunch of people randomly, I'll just post my thoughts on our D and the potential for Patrick Kane to be an Av. I apologize in advance if this turns into a wall of text.

Yeah, I think now that the Avs know Toews number and that the cap is increasing the plan will be to keep all three LDs and Makar. That means Manson is the odd man out. We can't move him until after June 15th and he submits his list.

That being said, I think y'all might be surprised at the return. He's not going to fetch us a 2C but this is not a situation where we will have to ship out a 1st. I think some people are guilty of under-valuing both his actual effectiveness in the playoffs as well as his even higher level of perceived effectiveness that rival GMs view him with once they see 6'3" 100KG. (Paging Dr. @Hasbro, paging Dr. @Hasbro)

Ultimately, his value will be impacted primarily by this season's performance. I think we'll see average 2nd pairing physical defense from him throughout the season. I think that impact will be, like it is every season, stepped up in the playoffs as the refs swallow their whistles a bit more. Or at least attempt to limit the complete bullshit calls to either legitimate mistakes or obvious game management.

As or Kane, I still firmly believe he could come to Colorado. We'd have to trade Frankie to do so and probably roll with either Prosvetov or Justus since they both have sub 1M contracts. That would leave a little 2.525M for Kane. Considering he might not sign until the deadline, that's not bad for a few months of work. That being said, I don't believe he'll come to Colorado. I believe if we reached out, he would consider it, but I think he'll probably get multi-year offers and will probably look to stay in the east with the easier travel like pretty much every other top UFA that actually hits the market.

 

[JH21]

Wait...did we just beat Seattle WITH Nichushkin and Manson??

I thought the sky was falling and this team was regressing because we lost to them in the playoffs??

 

[JH21]

And Drouin played 11 minutes....looks like we will be in the market for a top 6 forward. The experiment lasted 2 games under Bednar.

I gave him 10 games until Bednar made him a healthy scratch...looks like I was generous.

Lehkonen- Mackinnon- Rantanen
Nichushkin- Johansen- Tatar
Wood- Colton- O'Connor
Cogliano- Olofsson- Tufte

 

[Bender]

I promise you the coaches knew Newhook wasn’t the answer. Management may have hoped but the coaches knew.

For them to head into a championship defense having painted themselves into a corner like that was just plain stupid. And I get you can’t go for it every year but they still should’ve tried last year.

Like I said, I think management planned to address it but there probably wasn't a deal to be made that made sense last summer for a solid #2C so they figured they'd just address it at the TDL but I don't think they were prepared for the insane prices that other teams were asking from them. When you're the Champs, you pay extra.

So good on CMac to fill more holes over the off-season rather than risk getting screwed over at the TDL this time around.

 

[Pokecheque]

Like I said, I think management planned to address it but there probably wasn't a deal to be made that made sense last summer for a solid #2C so they figured they'd just address it at the TDL but I don't think they were prepared for the insane prices that other teams were asking from them. When you're the Champs, you pay extra.

So good on CMac to fill more holes over the off-season rather than risk getting screwed over at the TDL this time around.

I think they could’ve addressed it in the 2022 offseason and not re-signed Manson (boy is THAT deal looking horrendous right now). Kicking the can down the road and just desperately hoping Newhook was gonna pan out or some mythical unicorn second line center was just gonna be sitting there was foolish at best.

 

[Bender]

I think they could’ve addressed it in the 2022 offseason and not re-signed Manson (boy is THAT deal looking horrendous right now). Kicking the can down the road and just desperately hoping Newhook was gonna pan out or some mythical unicorn second line center was just gonna be sitting there was foolish at best.

Maybe the Manson re-sign was a mistake - I'll admit, I didn't think they would re-sign him but even despite his injury history, they couldn't have predicted he'd miss as much time as he did last year.

At the same time, who was really available that would have made a huge difference? Trochek? Copp? Kadri was never coming back here with the term he wanted. Then there was Horvat who the Canucks took forever to move and they traded him to to the eastern conference.

Newhook coming into his 3rd pro season with a fantastic opportunity to grab the #2C spot just didn't make the most of his opportunity and the Avs didn't have the patience to see if he'd ever put it together.

But what you're doing is using hindsight to say 'well they should have known that he was never going to make the most of his opportunity in year 3' before it even happened... which is very convenient.

It's kinda like blaming the Calgary Flames for trading Sam Bennett for peanuts suggesting they should have known he was a better player than he'd shown. Very easy to do - after the fact.

The Avs cut bait on Newhook at the right time and got an amazing return. Colton fits this Avs team perfectly and has the right age and experience to fill a giant hole at #3C. It doesn't matter if Newhook puts up 50 pts or more with the Habs... It's a win for us but like I said that guy wasn't available until this year before the draft.

I prefer this Avs team to one that would have signed Trochek or Copp to long-term contracts to be pseudo #2C, personally.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

And Drouin played 11 minutes....looks like we will be in the market for a top 6 forward. The experiment lasted 2 games under Bednar.

I gave him 10 games until Bednar made him a healthy scratch...looks like I was generous.

Lehkonen- Mackinnon- Rantanen
Nichushkin- Johansen- Tatar
Wood- Colton- O'Connor
Cogliano- Olofsson- Tufte

First of all, the idea of Drouin -Mack-Rants is just bad. That line lacks one all around guy who can do the dirty work. No wonder it's failing. Keep MacK with Drouin and put one worker there. Test it for few games.

Like I said, I think management planned to address it but there probably wasn't a deal to be made that made sense last summer for a solid #2C so they figured they'd just address it at the TDL but I don't think they were prepared for the insane prices that other teams were asking from them. When you're the Champs, you pay extra.

So good on CMac to fill more holes over the off-season rather than risk getting screwed over at the TDL this time around.

I mean if you think about it, how many better deals we had available in the off-season compared to trade deadline? We got freaking 20 games of Eller for 2nd round pick.. then compare that trade to trades we made this off-season..

You build a team during the off-season and fill the holes during trade deadline but deadline isn't for the miracle moves. It's just to fill couple holes maximum. To me, off-season is when you make it or break it. Basically.

A lot of trade deadline moves screams panic anyway. I think there's some truth to it.

That's why I loved our off-season. We have a competitive team already and with few adds, this could be a very very good team.

Btw, even if Drouin or Johansen fails, we should have Kovalenko coming over and potentially Landeskog. Things are fine even if one or two guy busts!

 

[The Abusement Park]

Maybe the Manson re-sign was a mistake - I'll admit, I didn't think they would re-sign him but even despite his injury history, they couldn't have predicted he'd miss as much time as he did last year.

Why couldnt they have? The dudes been missing chunks of time since like 2018.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Why couldnt they have? The dudes been missing chunks of time since like 2018.

Like someone mentioned on this thread earlier, it was probably a mistake from the beginning(re-signing him), but it's definitely true we need his profile on our defense.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Like someone mentioned on this thread earlier, it was probably a mistake from the beginning(re-signing him), but it's definitely true we need his profile on our defense.

Sure, I can totally understand the want for a Manson type on the backend. But he should’ve been a rental through and through.

 

[Richard88]

I think they could’ve addressed it in the 2022 offseason and not re-signed Manson (boy is THAT deal looking horrendous right now). Kicking the can down the road and just desperately hoping Newhook was gonna pan out or some mythical unicorn second line center was just gonna be sitting there was foolish at best.

Presumably the Avs plan is to add a RHD at the TDL to have this blueline in the playoffs, with "xxxx" likely being one of DeMelo, Dumba, or Walker as rentals.

Toews - Makar
Byram - xxxx
Girard - Manson
JJ

That's a fine workable solution for this season, but a solution probably has to be found to fill a bottom 4 RHD spot this off-season - especially if Manson gets dumped as a cap casualty.

There's a lot of (logical) calls for CMac to trade Manson, but what should CMac do this off-season to fill the RHD hole(s) behind Makar if he actually does manage to move Manson for capspace?

One option would be to simply roll with Byram-Girard as the defacto 2nd pairing, but that still requires a cheap 3RHD who can eat PK minutes.

Another is to replace Manson with an UFA signing (eg. sign one of the aforementioned rental options Walker/Dumba/DeMelo/etc), though capspace will limit the viability of that approach.

Perhaps a trade for a young and cheap RHD would be a good solution, but the Avs don't have a plethora of good assets to trade, and RHD's usually cost a premium so that wouldn't be cheap.

Maybe they could re-acquire Justin Barron if he continues to stall in Montreal behind a deep pool of RHD's (Reinbacher, Kovacevic, Mailloux, Savard, etc)? Kovacevic would be a decent fit for the role and has a low caphit, but he wouldn't be cheap given the demand for RHD's with low caphits.

 

[Richard88]

If Manson gets moved in the off-season and no significant additions are made other than guys on cheap deals or ELC's (i.e. Kovalenko/Ritchie, Behrens, Pavel, Olofsson, 7D, backup goalie) there would be ~$2m left to replace Manson with.

Landeskog - MacKinnon - Rantanen
Lehkonen - RyJo - Nichushkin
Wood - Colton - Kovalenko/Ritchie
Olofsson ($800k) - Pavel - LOC
Tufte ($775k)

Toews - Makar
Byram - Girard
Behrens ($925k) - RHD ($2m)
7D ($800k)

Georgiev
Annunen/Prosvetov ($775k)

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

 

[Richard88]

The RHD UFA class in 2024 has quite a few options which could be useful for the Avs if they're looking to replace Manson for ~$2m or less.

The best and/or most suitable options like Pesce, Roy, Tanev, and DeMelo would probably cost more than $2m aav, but perhaps you could grab someone like Hakanpaa or Dumba for ~$2m? Or maybe convince Tanev (who will be 34 next off-season) to take a <$2m deal with more term to make the cap work.

Tyler Myers
Zaitsev
Barrie
Tanev
Klingberg
Pesce
Dumba
Montour
Erik Johnson
Matt Roy
Justin Schultz
DeMelo
Lyubushkin
Walker
Carrier
DeAngelo
Colin Miller
Hakanpaa

Looking at this list it probably won't help the Avs that the UFA market for RHD's is so saturated as GM's will have plenty of alternatives other than acquiring a declining Manson at $4.5m X2.

 

[Murzu]

Nice to have you back again @Richard88

 

[Richard88]

In terms of offseason RHD options via trade To replace Manson for ~$2m these might be workable:

Fabbro (RFA with $2.5m QO)

Peeke ($2.75m X2)

Kovacevic ($775k x1)

Note: the $2m figure presumes a 22 man roster, but if they roll with a 21 man roster then they'd have ~$2.8m to play with, which would be enough to add Peeke or qualify Fabbro for example.

 

[Richard88]

Looking at the RHD situation I wonder if the most prudent thing to do wouldn't be be simply give Behrens a real good look down the stretch and maybe even in the playoffs, and then if he looks ready trade Girard and keep Manson.

Trading Girard instead of Manson would give you an extra $500k which in the scenario above gives you ~$2.5m (22 man roster) or ~$3.3m (21 man roster) to play with for a RHD (which probably needs to be added regardless of whether or not Manson is the one traded).

Toews - Makar
Byram - RHD ($2.5m-$3.3m)
Behrens - Manson
7D ($775k)

Having $3m+ to throw at a Dman instead of ~$2m-2.8m might be enough to land someone decent rather than the bottom of the barrel 3rd pairing types.

Moving Girard instead would presumably also net a decent return of assets compared to Manson who likely takes a sweetener to dump with two years remaining.

Girard's 9 team NTC only starts on July 1st, 2024 so around the draft would be the best time to trade him too. But you probably need to assess how Manson amd Behrens do this season before doing that though.

 

[Muffin]

Kadri isn’t even close to being the biggest issue in Calgary.

He looks like 20-21 Kadri, which is not good. Everyone knew 21-22 was a huge outlier.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[Balthazar]

Columbus

Looking at the RHD situation I wonder if the most prudent thing to do wouldn't be be simply give Behrens a real good look down the stretch and maybe even in the playoffs, and then if he looks ready trade Girard and keep Manson.

FWIW Behrens isn't good according to Pronman.