Rumor: 2023-24 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Season Thread

[henchman21]

I can't see the Avs fitting in Peeke's salary. They won't move Frank and unless he's out of the season, they won't bank on LTIR. All the other guys making a decent salary won't be moved.

 

[BobRossColton]

Would probably need to be Francouz for salary purposes at least.

Is their goalie Tarasov any good? He's making what LOC is for the next two seasons

 

[henchman21]

Is their goalie Tarasov any good? He's making what LOC is for the next two seasons

Columbus isn't moving him. He's their goalie of the future. He's also injured currently.

 

[BobRossColton]

Could they retain 750k, for like a 3rd+dermy+francouz for Peeke+Tarasov?

 

[NateTheGreat]

I’m open to the idea of the Avs executing a smart rebuild/retool on the fly, but there seems to be a giant obstacle in the way that people are overlooking.

That is where are we getting these young future top 6 F/top 4 D prospects and players from? These are the types of assets needed to execute a retool to replace the likes of Toews, Landy, and possibly Mikko.

IMO it’s extremely unlikely that the Avs will be drafting in the top 10 anytime soon with Mack and Makar on the team and that has been our only real avenue to getting these types of assets into the organization.

The solution cannot be to sell Toews and Mikko before they hit FA because those moves guarantee an end to this current cores window.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Could they retain 750k, for like a 3rd+dermy+francouz for Peeke+Tarasov?

750k retention on a 3 year deal is probably costing us a 2nd and quite frankly I don't see Columbus entertaining retention.


The only way it could work IMO would be if Francouz was done for the year and they sent MacDermid the other way in the trade.


But I don't see them moving Turd face, and I don't think Frank is done for the year.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I’m open to the idea of the Avs executing a smart rebuild/retool on the fly, but there seems to be a giant obstacle in the way that people are overlooking.

That is where are we getting these young future top 6 F/top 4 D prospects and players from? These are the types of assets needed to execute a retool to replace the likes of Toews, Landy, and possibly Mikko.

IMO it’s extremely unlikely that the Avs will be drafting in the top 10 anytime soon with Mack and Makar on the team and that has been our only real avenue to getting these types of assets into the organization.

The solution cannot be to sell Toews and Mikko before they hit FA because those moves guarantee an end to this current cores window.

Mikko would get us one of those pieces.

I dont buy the argument that the Avs can't finish bottom 10 with Mack/Makar. They finished bottom 10 3 straight years with Mack before. Makar keeps putting off a surgery by the sounds of his nagging injury issues... Have him take 6 months to get that surgery and fully recover.


IMO if that would be the only actual solution if they wanted to go the rebuild root. They can't try and do both things of continuing to contend with this aging core while retooling to bring in a new young core. Pick one direction and go with it fully.

 

[henchman21]

I’m open to the idea of the Avs executing a smart rebuild/retool on the fly, but there seems to be a giant obstacle in the way that people are overlooking.

That is where are we getting these young future top 6 F/top 4 D prospects and players from? These are the types of assets needed to execute a retool to replace the likes of Toews, Landy, and possibly Mikko.

IMO it’s extremely unlikely that the Avs will be drafting in the top 10 anytime soon with Mack and Makar on the team and that has been our only real avenue to getting these types of assets into the organization.

The solution cannot be to sell Toews and Mikko before they hit FA because those moves guarantee an end to this current cores window.

You have to get those pieces from selling off current players for prospects and with good drafting. While it may not be Toews/Mikko... it would have to be somebody.

Re-tools are not easy, and doing so in very tight timelines is even harder. Teams tend to avoid them because so many of them fail. The ones that don't fail tend to be a the teams that rebuild within their core's prime age. IE say they win somewhere between 22-24, then you re-tool for a few years to contend again in their late 20s. It is pretty rare that a re-tool happens with late age cores and is successful. Saying that, we have two examples right now to watch in the Stars and Kings. If they can pull it off, you can make a case for late stage re-tools working. If they don't, you have more evidence of just delaying the inevitable.

 

[Richard88]

Who do we move out?

Columbus fans on the main trade board and on capfriendly have been open to something around COL 2026 2nd + Francouz for Peeke. Capwise that would work well.

Edit: CBJ would need to retain $225k for that trade to be possible for Colorado (with a 22 man roster and MacDermid and JJ as 13F and 7D). Alternatively just send MacDermid down.

 

[Ceremony]

So many Ivans around here now.

Whatever happened to Ivan13? He get banned? Now is a good time for him to return.

Left of his own accord, but I don't remember why.

 

[Balthazar]

Saying that, we have two examples right now to watch in the Stars and Kings.

Neither of those 2 teams really fully bought into it though...Stars lucked out with insane drafting (if that's luck) and the rest of the Kings core just got too old and they managed to unload them while making good moves on the side.

They didn't sell Benn, Seguin, Carter and Brown for good prospects when they could. None of these 2 teams sold core players when they were still worthy, which would be the most efficient way to re-tool.

For us really going for a re-tool would mean swapping Nuke, Lehky, Toews and even Rants in their prime for younger players...but no GM has the balls to do that.

 

[henchman21]

Neither of those 2 teams really fully bought into it though...Stars lucked out with insane drafting (if that's luck) and the rest of the Kings core just got too old and they managed to unload them while making good moves on the side.

They didn't sell Benn, Seguin, Carter and Brown for good prospects when they could. None of these 2 teams sold core players when they were still worthy, which would be the most efficient way to re-tool.

For us really going for a re-tool would mean swapping Nuke, Lehky, Toews and even Rants in their prime for younger players...but no GM has the balls to do that.

CMac won't do that either. Teams are risk averse and won't make those decisions. It is easy to say go all NHL24 on it, but teams don't do that because there are some many reasons to not do it. That level of re-tool doesn't happen unless all players force their way out... and it won't happen here. Your very best case is Stars/Kings. Where you think that lines up on the scale of good or bad probably depends on your opinion of those teams.

 

[NateTheGreat]

Mikko would get us one of those pieces.

I dont buy the argument that the Avs can't finish bottom 10 with Mack/Makar. They finished bottom 10 3 straight years with Mack before. Makar keeps putting off a surgery by the sounds of his nagging injury issues... Have him take 6 months to get that surgery and fully recover.


IMO if that would be the only actual solution if they wanted to go the rebuild root. They can't try and do both things of continuing to contend with this aging core while retooling to bring in a new young core. Pick one direction and go with it fully.

The bottom 10 finishes were before Mack really broke out as one of the better #1C’s in the league. Now with Makar in the mix, it’s really hard to see a top pick coming our way if both of them are healthy and playing.

The bolded is what I’m getting at, you can’t do half measures in this league and expect to win. You either fully commit to winning now, including all current assets and future picks, or you fully commit to a retool and start selling players who will get you the pieces necessary for the next window.

 

[Balthazar]

CMac won't do that either. Teams are risk averse and won't make those decisions. It is easy to say go all NHL24 on it, but teams don't do that because there are some many reasons to not do it. That level of re-tool doesn't happen unless all players force their way out... and it won't happen here. Your very best case is Stars/Kings. Where you think that lines up on the scale of good or bad probably depends on your opinion of those teams.

My problem is, at least with the Stars case, it wasn't a re-tool on purpose. They just happened to draft a shitload of high end prospects while they were still competitive. These good young players are in the NHL now and all of a sudden they are contenders.

You can't duplicate that. Even the Stars wouldn't be able to do that again.

 

[Richard88]

Columbus fans on the main trade board and on capfriendly have been open to something around COL 2026 2nd + Francouz for Peeke. Capwise that would work well.

Edit: CBJ would need to retain $225k for that trade to be possible for Colorado (with a 22 man roster and MacDermid and JJ as 13F and 7D). Alternatively just send MacDermid down.

Further to that...

Doing that trade and sending MacDermid down leaves a 21 man roster and $762.5k in capspace, which is enough to add Hunt for a 22 man roster. Unfortunately just short of adding a $775m forward though.

 

[henchman21]

My problem is, at least with the Stars case, it wasn't a re-tool on purpose. They just happened to draft a shitload of high end prospects while they were still competitive. These good young players are in the NHL now and all of a sudden they are contenders.

You can't duplicate that. Even the Stars wouldn't be able to do that again.

It was certainly on purpose... the Stars didn't have the guns on the first re-boot 13-15, so they tweaked around the edges and relied on their scouts until they found something that worked.

You can say the Stars can't duplicate that, but they are a team that consistently can pick great talent in the late 1st to late rounds. They've done it for years and years. Prior to their haul in 2017 (which wasn't an accident itself and required maneuvering... remember Otter required them to trade up, while retaining the pick to get Robertson), they've gotten Hintz in the 2nd, Paul in the 4th, Lindell in the 3rd, Klingberg in the 5th, Benn in the 5th.... this is a team that can consistently find high end talent. They'll miss just like anybody else, but them finding a guy Johnston to shuffle in isn't a fluke.

If the Avs had the same ability to scout like the Stars and were willing to make the moves, they'd certainly be in a different situation. If you can rely on great scouting, you don't need to make as bold of trades. If you can't, like LA, you have to make bigger trades. There are many ways to skin the cat. With the Avs, we know they can't scout the later parts of the draft worth crap, so they'd have to go the sell route.

 

[Ararana]

Peeke would be an amazing pickup. A Girard and Peeke bottom pairing this year would be hella expensive but really nice. And Peeke could be around for a while to play with Malinski/Behrens when they inevitably trade Girard to keep Toews.

 

[Balthazar]

 

[Ararana]

lol so funny they loaned him to the Eagles BEFORE the trade....

There must have been a paper transaction benefit somehow.

 

[Avaholic29]

Cmac handy work. Prosvetov and Jones for Burke to round out the depth. Beautiful.

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

I think that's the differnce in opinion we have. I think this core is worth riding for the next 4 years as most of of them are in their prime now or just starting to leave it. It sounds like your idea is to blow it up much sooner.

The player ages you reference above happens in 3 years, so to start a 2-3 year rebuild and end up with new core players at that point, we'd need to start the retool right now. That probably looks like trading Towes at this deadline, trading Landy and Nuke whenever/however we can within the next year, and hoping we get back enough prime prospects to translate into impact players in 3 years time. Those would have to be some fantatic trades. I don't see us drafting in the top 10 anytime soon so we'd need some serious luck to hit homerun picks in the back half of the first round and middle rounds. Not really our forte.

Assuming we do find a way to add 3-4 new core peices in about 3 years, we would be adding them to Mack, who will be past his prime, Mikko, who will be just starting to leave his, and Cale, who will be leveling out.

I'd rather push hard now, work with the core we have while they're still elite, and accept that the best chances Cale and Mack have to win another cup is staring us right in the face. I agree with you that there will be a turning point when this core isn't worth investing into anymore and we will have to make smart decisions, but for right now the smartest decisions we can make are to maximize our current cup chances, even if that come at the expense of future cup chances.

I fully agree with you. This second window thing is not happening... it would be risky as hell, with risks way outweighting the potential gains. Teams usually try that when they don't have much of an alternative. I.e. they fell off a cliff and have to try something. They Avs will do like the Pens, they'll squeeze as hard as they can for as long as they can. Because of the quality and number of star players they have, they will never do what would be needed to try for a second window. We tend to forget that there is a business behind the team as well...

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

Neither of those 2 teams really fully bought into it though...Stars lucked out with insane drafting (if that's luck) and the rest of the Kings core just got too old and they managed to unload them while making good moves on the side.

They didn't sell Benn, Seguin, Carter and Brown for good prospects when they could. None of these 2 teams sold core players when they were still worthy, which would be the most efficient way to re-tool.

For us really going for a re-tool would mean swapping Nuke, Lehky, Toews and even Rants in their prime for younger players...but no GM has the balls to do that.

Agreed.
The Stars didn't re-tool at all. They kept squeezing and amazing prospects came out of their ass due to their amazing drafting.

 

[avsfan9]

Who cares? All he has to do is keep the bench warm for a few months until Francouz is back. If Georgiev needs a game off they could still call Annunen up to start a game.

Too much faith in Francouz , and the guy has played a handful of games in the last couple of years. I think he’s cooked.

 

[Avs_19]

I have to be missing something with this Peeke thing. Why would the Avs want him, especially at his cap hit?

 

[Alienblood]

I have to be missing something with this Peeke thing. Why would the Avs want him, especially at his cap hit?

agreed and I don't think they would