Rumor: 2023-24 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Season Thread

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Comparing Manson's contract to Girard

 

[thedoctor]

I've heard that Kadri would have re-signed for 6.5x7 or 6x8. Take that with a grain of salt though.

There are always options out there to solve 2C and middle pairing defensemen needs. It isn't this black and white of just Kadri or just Manson/Newhook. Kadri could have been re-signed. Could have made a sign and trade for Horvat. Could have gone for a rental like ROR. Could have gone risky with a 1 year signing like Domi/Strome. Could have sold Byram. They could have dumped EJ and signed Kadri along with still having Newhook and Manson. There is so much grey here that simply saying it had to be this or that is framing the debate unfairly.

To me, there were two paths that I would have investigated heavily. First would have been to put Byram on the market and tried to find a long-term 2C solution. A kid like Byram suddenly loosens a lot of names, and while I wouldn't have traded him for Dach (as I'm not a huge Dach at center fan)... that's a name that would have been a viable option. IMO there was (and still is) an option to move Bryam for a younger player in than 2C with legit 1C upside. That sort of move to solve the issue for 5-7 years would have been my first option.

I think the other realistic is simply choosing Kadri over Manson. Kadri was certainly going to regress and the contract would end poorly. Zero question about that. It would have certain window shutting moment at somepoint in the future. You also know he fit like a glove here and was still playing at a high level. If you got 3 years out of him at a 2C level, you secured 3 years of a potential to contend. Last year certainly would have been better... and I'd say that having Kadri over RyJo for the 2 seasons would be a lot more comforting. Certainly not without risk, but this would have been a known risk. The Avs were in the negotiations until Klingberg signed in Anaheim. They just were not willing to pay the price.

On Manson... I simply wouldn't have signed him or anybody for that role. Let the top 4 group of Makar, Toews, Byram, and G just figure it out with one of the lefties on their offside. Sign some cheap RD for depth. If/when it proved to be an issue, simply pay a 2nd for a RD rental. They are available every deadline and that cost is worth it to not get tied into a bad contract.

Ok, we're getting somewhere -- reading between the lines here, you are saying you would have kept Kadri at this fictional 6-6.5m rate and not re-signed Manson. I don't agree he would have taken that large a discount but obviously, that's all speculation. let's go with your assumption.
Avs were with ~700k of the cap at year start due to their apparent moral objections to LTIR. to add Kadri at ~6.5m, we must cut further -- and it's obvious who wouldn't have been available to us, the last second signing of Erod at 2m.

So it's + Kadri and - Manson / Erod, and the opening night roster would be something like, iirc:

Lehk - Mack - Rantanen
Nuke - Kadri - Newhook
Cogs - Compher - LOC
AHL - Myers - Hunt

Toews - Makar
Byram - G
Hunt - EJ

Boy I dunno man. That's a pretty non-physical/smallish D corps I think we all would have been dreading fielding in the playoffs. Byram - G is especially scary. The top 6 is marginally better but we're still counting on Newhook in the top 6 and the bottom 6 is still garbage. imo, this roster is about the same level as the one we went with.

Now let's get to the other various ideas you tossed out.

STL almost certainly wouldn't have traded ROR here, in division. ROR very likely would have thrown a fit and torpedoed a deal anyways, probably making the Avs unlikely to try it, the trade price he eventually did get was ridiculous, absolutely astronomical, and he was still a 7.5m cap hit. I don't see that as an option on any level.

EJ said he wasn't going to waive his NTC, and actually exercised it, didn't he?

You wouldn't have traded Byram for Dach, yeah I agree, especially at the time. Who else do you think would accept Byram for this hypothetical young 1C, then or now (probably far more likely now, after a year of relative health)?

Who were these RDs we could have traded for at the deadline?

I still don't see obviously better alternatives anywhere here, and that's my point. It's easy to say stuff like "We should have kept Kadri" or "Just trade EJ duhhh" but the reality is that the other options had undiscussed MAJOR downside or simply weren't on the table.

 

[Hasbro]

Comparing Manson's contract to Girard

Those are 6’3” dollars not 5’10” dollars!

 

[Chiarelli]

 

[dahrougem2]

Because in hockey, 30 is old.


Without Manson, the Avs could have afforded Kadri. And the Avs were trying to re-sign him. Yeah Kadri could have taken 3m, but that’s not realistic.

Gs is better because it can be moved and he’s still a good player. He’ll still be top 4 for years. Manson isn’t a top 4 today.

Kadri wasn't taking 6M or less, even without Manson that's roughly what the Avs had to work with since I doubt they wanted to spend up to the last penny.

Disagree on Girard. I'll bet it will be easier to move Manson than it will be to move Girard. GMs are horny for defensemen like Manson and allergic to defensemen like Girard.

Manson can be a #4 today, he just can't stay healthy. A #4 is also what Girard is and he will not get any higher.

 

[Avaholic29]

Drouin and johansen are going to fit like a glove and be really really productive. Can’t wait to see some summer time whiners on here eat crow.

 

[Balthazar]

Malinski sucks ass, need a RHD.

 

[Avsboy]

Drouin and johansen are going to fit like a glove and be really really productive. Can’t wait to see some summer time whiners on here eat crow.

They're clearly elite players

 

[Muffin]

Comparing Manson's contract to Girard

They’re not as different as you think.

 

[Freaky Styley]

yep, better be on that bottom pairing d waiver wire watch.

 

[Balthazar]

yep, better be on that bottom pairing d waiver wire watch.

If JJ really doesn't have anything left in the tank we need 2 NHL caliber defensemen.

 

[Chiarelli]

Sign Toews before the season plz. He's gonna have a monster season being a contract year and top PP with Byram and Makar playing half seasons

 

[Foppa2118]

The Avs could use a time machine to bring in a healthy prime Peter Forsberg to play 2C and win three Cups in a row and we'd still be talking about Manson costing us Kadri.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

I mean he already cost Kadri in one offseason and hindered the Avs from better solutions this off season. I’d say his contract is already a big hinderance. And his NTC can be designed to make it really tough to move him the next two years. It’s a terrible contract and was terrible from day 1. Don’t re-sign aging physical defensemen who are already regressing and going to be over 30. It almost never works out well.

Kadri would have been terrible contract too. We dodged a terrible contract by signing terrible contract. Pick your poison.

They’re not as different as you think.
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What's up with wood? Basically we spent third line money for a fourth liner?

 

[John Mandalorian]

If you go by the main boards attitude, Manson still has value. He’s physical and an RD. Whether GMs agree, who knows?

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

If you go by the main boards attitude, Manson still has value. He’s physical and an RD. Whether GMs agree, who knows?

GMs always have a hard on for physical defenseman

 

[Richard88]

If you go by the main boards attitude, Manson still has value. He’s physical and an RD. Whether GMs agree, who knows?

Vancouver are apparently desperate for a RHD since Hronek and Myers is all they have on the right with Bear and Poolman out. Guessing they'd gladly take Manson in their top 4 ahead of Myers right now, but they'd have to ship out money the other way, likely a winger (Beauvillier, Garland, Höglander, etc).

 

[John Mandalorian]

Vancouver are apparently desperate for a RHD since Hronek and Myers is all they have on the right with Bear and Poolman out. Guessing they'd gladly take Manson in their top 4 ahead of Myers right now, but they'd have to ship out money the other way, likely a winger (Beauvillier, Garland, Höglander, etc).

Timing. As you’re no doubt aware, Manson becomes easier to trade next summer.

 

[henchman21]

If you go by the main boards attitude, Manson still has value. He’s physical and an RD. Whether GMs agree, who knows?

I wouldn’t say the main boards are a great source for value.

Kadri would have been terrible contract too. We dodged a terrible contract by signing terrible contract. Pick your poison.


What's up with wood? Basically we spent third line money for a fourth liner?

Sure it would have been a bad contract eventually. Manson is a bad contract now.

 

[Richard88]

Timing. As you’re no doubt aware, Manson becomes easier to trade next summer.

Well yeah, the Avs aren't trading Manson now. My point was more that there's always a GM desperate for a big RHD, and right now that happens to be Patrik Allvin. We'll see which GM('s) is desperate next off-season.

 

[John Mandalorian]

I wouldn’t say the main boards are a great source for value.


Sure it would have been a bad contract eventually. Manson is a bad contract now.

It’s worth considering that there’s a certain amount of bias and mimicry due to how the actions of GMs are interpreted.

When Chiarot gets traded for a 1st, a bias is created that D like him are valued by GMs (no matter how ineffective he may be).

 

[Ararana]

yep, better be on that bottom pairing d waiver wire watch.

Ideally Girard is running that third pairing which makes it significantly better, but one top four injury and holy shit they're in trouble.

JJ is done man. It's like watching EJ's last season in Denver.

I think I'd rather them try to pick up a 6th defenseman on waivers over a goalie at this point. Let Justice reign supreme for 10 games this season.

 

[Richard88]

Ideally Girard is running that third pairing which makes it significantly better, but one top four injury and holy shit they're in trouble.

JJ is done man. It's like watching EJ's last season in Denver.

I think I'd rather them try to pick up a 6th defenseman on waivers over a goalie at this point. Let Justice reign supreme for 10 games this season.

There's a good chance that LA have to waive Björnfot this week as they're really squeezed for capspace and can only have a 20 man roster to start the season thanks to Kaliyev's suspension. He'll probably get picked up before reaching the Avs in the order though so CMac would probably have to throw them a late pick to jump the queue if he wants him.

 

[Balthazar]

Let's just hope that Wood isn't done. This signing screams bad long term UFA contract where the player doesn't even have 1 good year left. We've seen it plenty of times before with other teams.

If that happens that's extremely bad pro scouting because there were tons of redflags.

 

[The Abusement Park]

They’re not as different as you think.
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Advanced stats are back on the menu boys.