Rumor: 2023-24 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Season Thread

[Bill Peckerskull]

Everyone cleared waivers yesterday

 

[Pokecheque]

The Avs having a 48 point season was the real fluke. They actually had a pretty decent roster that year. Patty Roy was the real problem.

But it gave us Makar, so all is forgiven.

Ohhhhhhhhhhh no, that team was every bit as bad as those 48 points indicated. They were way too slow and way too soft, and didn't have nearly enough skill or depth anywhere. And that's before you look at the fact they had NO goaltending whatsoever. Once EJ went down that team went from bad to holy-f***in'-shit-avert-your-eyes.

Couple with that an inexperienced coach who was thrust into the role before he had any chance to really prepare and you have the worst team of the modern era. Watching that team try and move the puck up the ice was like watching Matthew Broderick lead his men in the opening scene of "Glory." If you've seen the film you'll know what I mean.

The good news is that Sakic and the organization as a whole learned from that mess and immediately started making the right moves toward fixing it.

 

[henchman21]

I'd love to see MEP get claimed by someone. If the Avs didn't have 18 options already, Pospisil would be interesting in 4th line role.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I agree on most of that -- I agree RyJo has more upside in general, which helps the bet, and that Manson/Newhook were linked.

I ask you the same thing I ask everyone that criticizes that decision: realistically, no hindsight, what would you have done differently for the 2RD/2C position? I think we all forget how grim it was that offseason.

Same for the RyJo hater crew too -- ok, you don't like RyJo, you think the decision has too much risk, fine, I get it. What is your realistic alternative?

In both cases I think it was/is a zero sum game.

For me, it was always to sign Kadri and let Manson walk.


Remember Kadri turned down a trade to Calgary before he was traded to the Avs. He didn't want to play for the Flames, ultimately they gave him the best deal in UFA. I have little doubt he would have stayed with the Avs for 7x$6.5M.


And then you have your 2C solution for at least the next 3 years. Yeah it was highly unlikely we'd see PPG+ Kadri again, but even ~60 point Kadri on this team would be a legit 2C and someone we know we can win a cup with.

Plus, with everything that went on with Naz and the Blues in that playoff run, from a marketing perspective how do you not keep Kadri and his personality from the playoff run going forward... But that's probably my university background speaking out on that topic


Mansons contract has instantly become a significant hindrance to the team and for a position that isn't even close to the importance of a 2C.

To me that was by far the biggest mistake this management group has made since Roy left, and also a mistake that at the time was completely out of character for the type of decisions they usually make. Unfortunately since they signed Manson they have started to trend further into the direction of incredibly dumb decisions, Miles Wood now being suspect #2, yet another regressing player signed long term based on what he used to be as a player instead of what he is currently. Hopefully this one doesn't immediately bite us in the ass at least.

 

[JH21]

For me, it was always to sign Kadri and let Manson walk.


Remember Kadri turned down a trade to Calgary before he was traded to the Avs. He didn't want to play for the Flames, ultimately they gave him the best deal in UFA. I have little doubt he would have stayed with the Avs for 7x$6.5M.


And then you have your 2C solution for at least the next 3 years. Yeah it was highly unlikely we'd see PPG+ Kadri again, but even ~60 point Kadri on this team would be a legit 2C and someone we know we can win a cup with.

Plus, with everything that went on with Naz and the Blues in that playoff run, from a marketing perspective how do you not keep Kadri and his personality from the playoff run going forward... But that's probably my university background speaking out on that topic


Mansons contract has instantly become a significant hindrance to the team and for a position that isn't even close to the importance of a 2C.

To me that was by far the biggest mistake this management group has made since Roy left, and also a mistake that at the time was completely out of character for the type of decisions they usually make. Unfortunately since they signed Manson they have started to trend further into the direction of incredibly dumb decisions, Miles Wood now being suspect #2, yet another regressing player signed long term based on what he used to be as a player instead of what he is currently. Hopefully this one doesn't immediately bite us in the ass at least.

I'm a Josh Manson fan. But I have to agree with you. If it was a choice of keeping Kadri or Manson, I'd have to go with Kadri. That said, if we waited to sign Kadri and lost Manson that would have been a fail too.

Kadri over-valued his market and we didn't want to wait around.

That said, 4.5 million for a top 4 defender in Manson is not a bad deal. He needs to stay healthy and he is a valuable player.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Tbf I think Kadri turning down Calgary was more to keep himself in Toronto than not wanting to be in Calgary.

 

[Foppa2118]

Tbf I think Kadri turning down Calgary was more to keep himself in Toronto than not wanting to be in Calgary.

He said exactly that in 2019 after he was traded to the Avs.

“What happened is they had a deal in place and they wanted me to move my no-trade clause,” Kadri explained on the podcast. “Obviously, for me, it was no disrespect to Calgary or the Flames organization — I love their team and I love the direction they’re headed. I just figured that had I declined, I would have had a better opportunity of being a Maple Leaf next year, and that’s really what it came down to.

“I wanted to play for the Leafs next year. I wanted to be a part of that. In declining that trade, I had aspirations of being a Leaf, and we know clearly that didn’t happen.”

 

[Richard88]

I'd love to see MEP get claimed by someone. If the Avs didn't have 18 options already, Pospisil would be interesting in 4th line role.

Wood - Pospisil - O'Connor... would be a fun line

 

[henchman21]

Wood - Pospisil - O'Connor... would be a fun line

Bednar would have an aneurysm.

 

[Pokecheque]

Geez, that's it? All that just to settle for that number?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Tbf I think Kadri turning down Calgary was more to keep himself in Toronto than not wanting to be in Calgary.

True, and I think he even said as much at the time...

But, I'd say it's also probably pretty clear he preferred the Avs to the Flames since he didn't have us on his NTC unlike the Flames, and then went on to win a cup with us. I'd say almost for certain he would have preferred to sign with the Avs over Flames last summer. The Avs were likely just not willing to go 7 years on a $6-7M deal, instead were probably offering 4-5 years. Especially with those same issues now popping up with Toews reportedly.

 

[Linds]

I wish the season started tonight

 

[Richard88]

In a scenario where Toews does walk presumably the Avs wouldn't look to move Manson, so after filling out the depth roles (marked with "xxxx" below) with cheap contracts there would be around ~$4-5m to spend on a RHD to round out the blueline.

It might be risky to add another regressing UFA Dman but looking at the UFA group someone like Pesce, Matt Roy, or Tanev would balance out the top 6 nicely. Another physical RHD would nicely compliment the group of smaller puck-moving LHD's on the roster (Byram/Girard/Behrens/Gulyayev/Ahcan/Hanzel).

Landeskog - MacKinnon - Nichushkin
Lehkonen - RyJo - Rantanen
Wood - Colton - xxxxxx
xxxxx - xxxxx - O'Connor
xxxxx

Byram - Makar
Girard - Pesce/Roy/Tanev
Behrens - Manson
xxxxx

Georgiev
Annunen


Maybe there is a desire to re-sign Toews, but the cap situation and organizational depth at LHD/RHD does kinda make it seem set up to re-allocate Toews' current ~$4-5m cap towards a RHD.

 

[Balthazar]

I hope both him and Zegras become 11M players in 3 years and wreck their cap during their contending window.

I'm really not impressed with Verbeek so far I must say.

 

[MacKaRant]

Geez, that's it? All that just to settle for that number?

I mean, it's a "nice" number when you sum it all up.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Thank god we tied our cup aspirations to a player with serious motivational issues, and who had problems breaking 40-45 points 3 of the last 4 years.

Oh! There you are!! Right on cue.

 

[Sea Eagles]

For me, it was always to sign Kadri and let Manson walk.


Remember Kadri turned down a trade to Calgary before he was traded to the Avs. He didn't want to play for the Flames, ultimately they gave him the best deal in UFA. I have little doubt he would have stayed with the Avs for 7x$6.5M.


And then you have your 2C solution for at least the next 3 years. Yeah it was highly unlikely we'd see PPG+ Kadri again, but even ~60 point Kadri on this team would be a legit 2C and someone we know we can win a cup with.

Plus, with everything that went on with Naz and the Blues in that playoff run, from a marketing perspective how do you not keep Kadri and his personality from the playoff run going forward... But that's probably my university background speaking out on that topic


Mansons contract has instantly become a significant hindrance to the team and for a position that isn't even close to the importance of a 2C.

To me that was by far the biggest mistake this management group has made since Roy left, and also a mistake that at the time was completely out of character for the type of decisions they usually make. Unfortunately since they signed Manson they have started to trend further into the direction of incredibly dumb decisions, Miles Wood now being suspect #2, yet another regressing player signed long term based on what he used to be as a player instead of what he is currently. Hopefully this one doesn't immediately bite us in the ass at least.

Biggest mistake? He was a monster in the playoffs just prior to renegotiating:

20 games
8 points
plus 6
1 GWG
17.11 minutes on ice (on average)

He then followed that up (prior to getting injured) the next season (our last season) with:

27 games
10 points
plus 13
2 GWG's
17.41 minutes on ice (on average)

I get the frustration with him being injured, but it happens, and is completely out of his control. The reason he gets injured in my opinion, is because of the hard edge he plays with (and that's something we really need in the team).

Not only do I find the contract value NOT a mistake, but his performance both before and after it was signed is justification for doing so. If he can eek out a solid run of games, lookout - he's a beast !

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Ohhhhhhhhhhh no, that team was every bit as bad as those 48 points indicated. They were way too slow and way too soft, and didn't have nearly enough skill or depth anywhere. And that's before you look at the fact they had NO goaltending whatsoever. Once EJ went down that team went from bad to holy-f***in'-shit-avert-your-eyes.

Couple with that an inexperienced coach who was thrust into the role before he had any chance to really prepare and you have the worst team of the modern era. Watching that team try and move the puck up the ice was like watching Matthew Broderick lead his men in the opening scene of "Glory." If you've seen the film you'll know what I mean.

The good news is that Sakic and the organization as a whole learned from that mess and immediately started making the right moves toward fixing it.

Yeah Bednar's problem that season was he kept trying to implement his system with that particular roster. There was no way it was going to work and he was not willing to adjust. That roster was just too damn slow. As you said Sakic started making the changes required to implement Bednar's system right after that season.

 

[RockLobster]

Biggest mistake? He was a monster in the playoffs just prior to renegotiating:

20 games
8 points
plus 6
1 GWG
17.11 minutes on ice (on average)

He then followed that up (prior to getting injured) the next season (our last season) with:

27 games
10 points
plus 13
2 GWG's
17.41 minutes on ice (on average)

I get the frustration with him being injured, but it happens, and is completely out of his control. The reason he gets injured in my opinion, is because of the hard edge he plays with (and that's something we really need in the team).

Not only do I find the contract value NOT a mistake, but his performance both before and after it was signed is justification for doing so. If he can eek out a solid run of games, lookout - he's a beast !

No dude.

No one is debating his contribution to the Cup. Bringing it up when debating the merit of re-signing him to his current contract is bad faith debating.

His current contract is not good and has a high chance of being an anchor for what could be the remainder of this current core’s Cup window

 

[dahrougem2]

No dude.

No one is debating his contribution to the Cup. Bringing it up when debating the merit of re-signing him to his current contract is bad faith debating.

His current contract is not good and has a high chance of being an anchor for what could be the remainder of this current core’s Cup window

Ehhhhhh that last part is a big stretch. He could just as easily have a really good playoff run then be traded next offseason when he no longer has a full NMC. The contract isn't some cap hindering anchor.

 

[henchman21]

Ehhhhhh that last part is a big stretch. He could just as easily have a really good playoff run then be traded next offseason when he no longer has a full NMC. The contract isn't some cap hindering anchor.

I mean he already cost Kadri in one offseason and hindered the Avs from better solutions this off season. I’d say his contract is already a big hinderance. And his NTC can be designed to make it really tough to move him the next two years. It’s a terrible contract and was terrible from day 1. Don’t re-sign aging physical defensemen who are already regressing and going to be over 30. It almost never works out well.

 

[Alienblood]

We have to have some muscle back there, especially against a big team like Vegas

I mean he already cost Kadri in one offseason and hindered the Avs from better solutions this off season. I’d say his contract is already a big hinderance. And his NTC can be designed to make it really tough to move him the next two years. It’s a terrible contract and was terrible from day 1. Don’t re-sign aging physical defensemen who are already regressing and going to be over 30. It almost never works out well.

Why do you always make 30 see old ? I get it for some but not all.

 

[dahrougem2]

I mean he already cost Kadri in one offseason and hindered the Avs from better solutions this off season. I’d say his contract is already a big hinderance. And his NTC can be designed to make it really tough to move him the next two years. It’s a terrible contract and was terrible from day 1. Don’t re-sign aging physical defensemen who are already regressing and going to be over 30. It almost never works out well.

Kadri cost Kadri, not Manson. He wanted to get paid, he got paid. The path to staying in Colorado was laid out for him, he exercised his right to go play for the highest bidder.

Not arguing the logic in re-signing 30+ physical defensemen, but his contract is no more of a hindrance to this roster than Samuel Girard's 5M.

 

[henchman21]

We have to have some muscle back there, especially against a big team like Vegas


Why do you always make 30 see old ? I get it for some but not all.

Because in hockey, 30 is old.

Kadri cost Kadri, not Manson. He wanted to get paid, he got paid. The path to staying in Colorado was laid out for him, he exercised his right to go play for the highest bidder.

Not arguing the logic in re-signing 30+ physical defensemen, but his contract is no more of a hindrance to this roster than Samuel Girard's 5M.

Without Manson, the Avs could have afforded Kadri. And the Avs were trying to re-sign him. Yeah Kadri could have taken 3m, but that’s not realistic.

Gs is better because it can be moved and he’s still a good player. He’ll still be top 4 for years. Manson isn’t a top 4 today.