Rumor: 2023-24 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Part Deux

[JH21]

Obviously don’t mean this year and it’s in the context of trading for Lindholm and Anderson to load up for one last big run and Landy returning to have that contract on the books.

Going into next season is the last year of Mikko’s contract at that point to re-sign him we’ll be paying Mack 12.5, Cale 9, Landy 7, and Toews 7.25 and then have to be paying Mikko 12. The point is to do a mini retool with the assets from him after having re-signed Lindholm so we actually have a bloody second line centre and can get some cheap depth again

If he had 4.5 years left instead of 1.5 then of course you keep him and sort out the depth. It’s the looming big dollar extension on a team that’s already hurting for depth and a 2C with way too much money committed to wingers that becomes the issue

Who cares what position Rantanen plays? He is a top 10 player in the league and you don't get rid of guys like him.

Lindholm and whatever depth we would get from Rantanen makes us considerably worse than us without Rantanen.

Adding a 2C for the sake of it and losing Rantanen is probably not the best buisness model.

The goal is to keep our star players not ship them out.

 

[jabubenice]

If the pro scouts can find the center, playmaking version of Nuke (sans the hookers and blow jokes) I'm fine giving up just about anything outside of the core.

going to be hard to find though to be fair

 

[redacted]

Who cares what position Rantanen plays? He is a top 10 player in the league and you don't get rid of guys like him.

Lindholm and whatever depth we would get from Rantanen makes us considerably worse than us without Rantanen.

Adding a 2C for the sake of it and losing Rantanen is probably not the best buisness model.

The goal is to keep our star players not ship them out.

Teams that get to a point where they only keep 3/4 stars and the rest of the team is trash. See Pittsburgh and imagine them with horrific drafting. Thats the future of the Avs if they keep the stars at all costs.

 

[JH21]

Teams that get to a point where they only keep 3/4 stars and the rest of the team is trash. See Pittsburgh and imagine them with horrific drafting. Thats the future of the Avs if they keep the stars at all costs.

Who cares? Keep the star players and fill the rest with depth guys and hope to hit on a few draft picks. Elite guys are a million times harder to find than average 2nd liners.

Or, to counter that we can trade some of our stars and fill the roster out with mediocre players and end up being the Montreal Canadiens for the next 10 years. A team with good depth but no stars which equals a middle of the pack team for years to come.

And last I checked this team with our stars locked up long term is not "trash". We are the 9th best team in the league as of today without key guys like Lekhonen and guys like Manson and Girard banged up.

 

[redacted]

Who cares? Keep the star players and fill the rest with depth guys and hope to hit on a few draft picks. Elite guys are a million times harder to find than average 2nd liners.

Or, to counter that we can trade some of our stars and fill the roster out with mediocre players and end up being the Montreal Canadiens for the next 10 years. A team with good depth but no stars which equals a middle of the pack team for years to come.

And last I checked this team with our stars locked up long term is not "trash". We are the 9th best team in the league as of today without key guys like Lekhonen and guys like Manson and Girard banged up.

If you want to contend consistently you need both stars and depth. So if you want that you should care. If you just want to cheer on the stars on a wild card team that maybe wins a round… then you’re probably fine going that path.

The hitting in the draft hasn’t happened. So the Avs are heading down the path of 3/4 stars few average players playing out of position and a bunch of garbage depth.

The regular season doesn’t really matter. Who cares if they are 9th now, either way. Actually doing damage in the playoffs matters.

 

[GeoRox89]

Who cares what position Rantanen plays? He is a top 10 player in the league and you don't get rid of guys like him.

Lindholm and whatever depth we would get from Rantanen makes us considerably worse than us without Rantanen.

Adding a 2C for the sake of it and losing Rantanen is probably not the best buisness model.

The goal is to keep our star players not ship them out.

Even if the cap goes up to 94 million for 2025-2026, if we’re signing Rantanen @ 12+ then that’s just over 46.5 million or 49.5% of the cap on 5 players unless Landy is LTIRetired

That leaves 47.5 million for an entire bottom 9, bottom 4 D, 2 goalies and 1-3 depth players/callups.

If you keep Nuke that’s 6.125 gone. Keep Girard or Byram that’s 5+ gone. Keep Colton and Wood (because no one is taking Woods contract) there’s another 6.5 gone. So 17 million and change gone. They leaves 30.5 to still come up with 6 forwards, 3 D, 2 goalies and call up room. 2 of those forwards need to be top 6 players and one D needs to be a top 4 not to mention a starting goalie. All of this is even worse if Landy is playing but at a 3rd liner level

Yes you need stars but clearly the Avs have rightly prioritized Makar and losing Mack was never an option. If you trade Mikko in the summer after one last run you have to get a young top 6 capable forward or NHL ready prospect.

You can have one 100 pt winger in Mikko (who I would love to have stay and watch) or likely 2 60 point top 6 players with that money plus whatever good young depth you can get in a trade

This is the reality of the Cap world. We won when we were spending 10.5 million for 1C and 2C and just over 4 on a top 2 D. Vegas won with Eichel, Stone and Pie on big deals (but the biggest one was 10 million on Eichel) and everyone else under 6 million. Tampa won before Point, Cirelli and Sergachev got paid and no one was making 10+

It depends what you want. 2 years and then the window is slammed shut (as a 1st or second round exit) and locked or all in for 1 more run and hope a retool and more depth keeps it at least a crack open as a good playoff team and dark horse until age completely catches up with Mack

 

[redacted]

Just to be clear I’m not saying trade Rants… I’m saying the path of keeping every star and still contending just isn’t going to happen. Theres a pretty tough choice right there.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Byram is hamstrung on the Avs. I'm fine with sending him out for everyone's best interests but I'm worried after years of concussions and consitent lack of opportunity in Colorado his development has been significantly hampered and his ceiling is no where near what it once was.

The Avs chose Toews, I wildly don't agree with that but they chose him as Makar's long term partner over Byram. Lets move on from Byram and give him the best shot to reach his potential on a club that will use him appropriately.

IMO Bowman absolutely f***ed Byram by not taking him 3rd OA, Chicago was the ideal fit for him. Spend a year mentoring under Duncan Keith as their #1D in grooming and slowly take over their PP1. Who knows how events would have unfolded but Beddard and Byram would have been a fantastic duo.

Said it before. If Byram wants to make alot of money it wont be in Denver. He has to go somewhere else where he gets PP1 time and top minutes. I think theres a 50-60 point dman there still but it wont be with the Avs. Avs would be doin him and themselves a favor if they traded him sorry to say.

 

[Tommy Shelby]

I'm just waiting for the "trade MacK" talk to start up

 

[AvalancheSpeedsters]

Just be thankful we aren’t Edmonton right now …

 

[Chiarelli]

I think you can keep MacK Rants Makar. But ya it’ll be rough our drafting sucks.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I think you can keep MacK Rants Makar. But ya it’ll be rough our drafting sucks.

They definitely can keep them, but the depth issues will likely only get worse...


By the time Makar gets his new deal we're probably at a $100M cap.


Mack - $12.6M
Mikko - $13M
Makar - $12.5M
Toews - $7.25M
Landy - $7M
Nuke - $6.125M
Wood - $2.5M


$60M spent on 5 Forwards and 2 Dmen. $40M left for 8 Forwards, 5 Dmen, and 2 goalies. Not a lot of money to work with.

 

[BobRossColton]

I think Nuke could end up being traded, especially if kovalenko clicks.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

I'm just waiting for the "trade MacK" talk to start up

TRADE MACK!

 

[GeoRox89]

They definitely can keep them, but the depth issues will likely only get worse...


By the time Makar gets his new deal we're probably at a $100M cap.


Mack - $12.6M
Mikko - $13M
Makar - $12.5M
Toews - $7.25M
Landy - $7M
Nuke - $6.125M
Wood - $2.5M


$60M spent on 5 Forwards and 2 Dmen. $40M left for 8 Forwards, 5 Dmen, and 2 goalies. Not a lot of money to work with.

By the time Makar is due an extension though the window is definitely closed unless we hit some real draft home runs. At that point Avs are mostly doing more Makar legacy building and hoping you’ve rebuilt well enough enough by the time he’s ~33-34 to have him be the veteran leader on a new playoff contender (like Doughty and Kopitar now)

 

[JH21]

I'm just waiting for the "trade MacK" talk to start up

I swear to God this is the craziest forum I've ever been on.

Guys are seriously suggesting to trade a top 10 player in the league and a guy who is currently 10th in league scoring to add "depth" pieces.

I f'n give up.

They definitely can keep them, but the depth issues will likely only get worse...


By the time Makar gets his new deal we're probably at a $100M cap.


Mack - $12.6M
Mikko - $13M
Makar - $12.5M
Toews - $7.25M
Landy - $7M
Nuke - $6.125M
Wood - $2.5M


$60M spent on 5 Forwards and 2 Dmen. $40M left for 8 Forwards, 5 Dmen, and 2 goalies. Not a lot of money to work with.

You're assuming Landeskog and his 7 million comes back.

And regardless, you keep that core group of players (including Lehkonen) for as long as possible)

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

By the time Makar is due an extension though the window is definitely closed unless we hit some real draft home runs. At that point Avs are mostly doing more Makar legacy building and hoping you’ve rebuilt well enough enough by the time he’s ~33-34 to have him be the veteran leader on a new playoff contender (like Doughty and Kopitar now)

True, they wont be contenders at that point. For two reasons though, A) A lot of them will be regressing pretty hard by that point, and B) The depth is going to be ugly at that point.

 

[JH21]

True, they wont be contenders at that point. For two reasons though, A) A lot of them will be regressing pretty hard by that point, and B) The depth is going to be ugly at that point.

I like how everyone claims to be psychics and know what the future holds.

If I had a nickle everytime I heard someone say "our window will be closed" I'd be a very rich man.

The fact is as long as we have Mackinnon, Rantanen and Makar we will be contenders.

 

[JH21]

I'm thinking CMac screwed up.

We should have kept Compher, Rodriquez and Newhook over Johansen, Colton and Wood

36 points vs 21

 

[The Abusement Park]

I like how everyone claims to be psychics and know what the future holds.

If I had a nickle everytime I heard someone say "our window will be closed" I'd be a very rich man.

The fact is as long as we have Mackinnon, Rantanen and Makar we will be contenders.

Just like how the Penguins have been contending?

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

The Avs haven’t profited off a Canadian team in a while, clearly Avs going to get McDavid for near nothing and he will help us count to potato

 

[ANewHope]

Just like how the Penguins have been contending?

I mean the NHL isn't predictable unless you just re-write what happened and create another narrative. It's the same thing when people talk about what you need to win a cup but than ignore what things happened when those teams actually won.

Your not going to be able to pin point the exact moment it's all over. There's so much momentum/luck involved come playoff time. I think the days of the Avs being that rare dominant cup team is over but it's not like one of those exist right now today in the league. As time goes on you'll need to hope for those bounces to make a run. If the Avs get another 4 cracks at it it'll be anybody's guess.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Mentioned this on the main boards in a thread but curious to what folks think of the value here?


Ryan Johansen
Bowen Byram

for

Brock Nelson
Alexander Romanov


Avs get a legit 35+ goal scoring 2C for 2 playoff runs, and a bit of a reclamation project in Romanov but should be a decent 3rd pairing LD for us at least. They get out of the RyJo deal without needing to buy him out or move a pick to get rid of him. Losing Byram is a hefty price but I think this kind of trade makes the Avs much better balanced from a roster contruction perspective right now and allows us to keep our draft picks and prospects to use for rorster improvement elsewhere.


I dunno if Nelson would actually be available but the Isles do have an excess number of Centers right now with Barzal, Horvat, Nelson, Pageau, all as natural Top 9 Centers. And the Isles do have a need for a Top 4 LD as Romanov has struggled in that role for them.



Avs would then look like this:


Nuke - Mack - Mikko
Drouin - Nelson - Lehky
Wood - Colton - Tatar
Cogs - Olofsson - LOC


Toews - Makar
Girard - Manson
Romanov - Jones
Johnson - MacDermid




With Kovalenko/Landy potentially pushing Drouin/Tatar out of the lineup by the playoffs and(IMO) you use the draft capital we have to improve on the RD position at the deadline. Ideally you grab someone like DeMelo or Walker to push Manson down to the 3rd pairing.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I mean the NHL isn't predictable unless you just re-write what happened and create another narrative. It's the same thing when people talk about what you need to win a cup but than ignore what things happened when those teams actually won.

Your not going to be able to pin point the exact moment it's all over. There's so much momentum/luck involved come playoff time. I think the days of the Avs being that rare dominant cup team is over but it's not like one of those exist right now today in the league. As time goes on you'll need to hope for those bounces to make a run. If the Avs get another 4 cracks at it it'll be anybody's guess.

I'm not saying were the Pens now. But they had 2 of the ~10 best players in the league and a 1D in Letang for the last ~5 years and haven't been contenders at all. I'm just saying you get to a point in the cap world where it's not possible to have enough depth to keep up with star talent. Obviously Mak/Mack/Mikko are going to drive the bus on this team for some time, but at some point due to the cap were just going to be a playoff team instead of contenders. And that's fine, but those 3 alone aren't enough to be contenders outright.

 

[ANewHope]

I'm not saying were the Pens now. But they had 2 of the ~10 best players in the league and a 1D in Letang for the last ~5 years and haven't been contenders at all. I'm just saying you get to a point in the cap world where it's not possible to have enough depth to keep up with star talent. Obviously Mak/Mack/Mikko are going to drive the bus on this team for some time, but at some point due to the cap were just going to be a playoff team instead of contenders. And that's fine, but those 3 alone aren't enough to be contenders outright.

Those are all valid points but nobody knows how things will look in a few seasons and with the NHL playoffs all it takes is a couple of bounces or a good matchup to win a playoff round or two. The NHL just isn’t that predictable. Who knows if MacKinnon even ages like Crosby. Avs could be missing the playoffs or in the 2nd round with Makar leading the way in 2 seasons.

The whole contender thing is overrated most of the time IMO. It’s valid for 1-2 teams the occasional season or certain cores peaking. I’d agree that the Avs are no longer in that dominant group but as of today nobody is. I think the core until they regress will give them a dart throw/have them in that 3-10 range depending on how good the FO is.