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Rumor: 2023-24 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Part Deux

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dahrougem2

dahrougem2

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I still maintain like I always have that I see Duncan Keith in Bowen Byram. I'm not saying he will become Duncan Keith, but I believe in order to have as much success as possible Byram should model his game after Keith.
 
Ararana

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dahrougem2 said:
I still maintain like I always have that I see Duncan Keith in Bowen Byram. I'm not saying he will become Duncan Keith, but I believe in order to have as much success as possible Byram should model his game after Keith.
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Imagine Chicago not f***ing up and drafting Byram. Bo gets to be mentored BY Duncan Keith and then eventually take over Chicago's PP1.
 
Ararana

Ararana

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Alienblood said:
I'm with you and think Byram needs to go somewhere else unfortunately.
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It's a bit crazy how much of their career is affected by bad draft luck. McDavid's prime is going to be completely wasted by it.

And FWIW, I thought the Avs were an okay-ish fit for Byram at the draft because he was going to be a set and forget partner for Cale f***ing Makar. But that was before Lou randomly gave the Avs a top pair LHD for nothing. Then the Avs became quite a bad fit for Byram.
 
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NateTheGreat

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dahrougem2 said:
I still maintain like I always have that I see Duncan Keith in Bowen Byram. I'm not saying he will become Duncan Keith, but I believe in order to have as much success as possible Byram should model his game after Keith.
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I’ve always liked that comparison for Bo. While he likely won’t ever hit the ceiling that Keith reached, their styles of play are quite similar.

The funny part is that Keith’s rookie year he was the same age that Byram is now. Sure with a 4th overall pick you’d like to have a player quickly develop into a star, but not all players have the same development curve especially when you factor in missed time due to injuries.
 
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Ararana

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AvStock said:
Why can’t we just staple Byram to Makar and let Toews run the 2nd pairing? Bednar being Bednar?
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You don't give a 30 year old 7+ million for 7 years just to NOT play him with the guy that made him successful to begin with.

I was probably the biggest advocate to trading Toews last summer, but now that he's extended you have to play him with Makar until he starts to show age.
 
Pokecheque

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AvStock said:
Why can’t we just staple Byram to Makar and let Toews run the 2nd pairing? Bednar being Bednar?
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I believe they've rotated in with one another. The one rotation that from my observation has been a complete disaster is Toews-Byram.

Also, if you take Toews off the top pairing you're effectively putting the team's best shutdown defender on the second pairing.
 
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AvStock

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Ararana said:
You don't give a 30 year old 7+ million for 7 years just to NOT play him with the guy that made him successful to begin with.

I was probably the biggest advocate to trading Toews last summer, but now that he's extended you have to play him with Makar until he starts to show age.
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I mean sure but that does sound like sunk cost. We need to be creative to squeeze more juice out of our pairings. Run Toews like a “#1” on the second pairing similar to Crosby and Malkin. No need to waste Byram right?
 
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Alienblood

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Ararana said:
You don't give a 30 year old 7+ million for 7 years just to NOT play him with the guy that made him successful to begin with.

I was probably the biggest advocate to trading Toews last summer, but now that he's extended you have to play him with Makar until he starts to show age.
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I'd let Toews anchor the 2nd pair
 
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henchman21

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You don't put Byram with Makar consistently because that pairing makes Makar have to be the cover guy and holding back. If you're overpowering to score a goal and puts a ton of offensive pressure on a team because you're down 2... it works because both are activating and providing heavy pressure. If you're playing up or tied, Byram's riskiness eliminates a lot of Makar's strengths. You're asking one of the most impactful defensemen on the offensive side ever to play, to suddenly play conservative.

Toews simply allows Makar to be Makar and play his game to his strengths at all times... and against any other line.
 
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henchman21

henchman21

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Ararana said:
Does anyone have Makar's WOWY this year to show how well Toews as stood up without Cale?
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Not a ton of sample size this year (we're talking 30-60 minutes... so hardly anything on some)... but 62% xGF Toews w/o Makar and Byram. Toews w/ Makar 58% xGF. Byram w/ Makar 65% xGF. Byram w/ Toews 41% xGF. Byram w/o 50% xGF

If you go back to last year... Toews w/o 54% xGF. Toews w/ Makar 58% xGF. Byram w/ Makar 54% xGF Byram w/ Toews 46% xGF Byram w/o 46% xGF


Pretty clear Byram and Toews don't exactly mesh well though.
 
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AvStock

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If we can get Byram back to the cup winning Byram and play more defensively minded then Toews could definitely anchor the 2nd pairing. Sounds like this is a coaching issue?
 
Ararana

Ararana

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henchman21 said:

Not a ton of sample size this year (we're talking 30-60 minutes... so hardly anything on some)... but 62% xGF Toews w/o Makar and Byram. Toews w/ Makar 58% xGF. Byram w/ Makar 65% xGF. Byram w/ Toews 41% xGF. Byram w/o 50% xGF

If you go back to last year... Toews w/o 54% xGF. Toews w/ Makar 58% xGF. Byram w/ Makar 54% xGF Byram w/ Toews 46% xGF Byram w/o 46% xGF


Pretty clear Byram and Toews don't exactly mesh well though.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I had no idea NST let you pull custom line stats like that.

Yeah, not a huge discrepancy in the pairings other than everyone gets the Makar bump in GF%. Each pairing falls in the 50s for CF%, and don't play your LHD together. Pulling Girard in makes that more evident.

With Toews not going anywhere, ideally Byram and Manson find their chemistry together going forward. I do believe Manson was brought in to play that "Toews" role for Byram on the second pairing. EJ ended up being that guy for Bo in the cup run, and it was the best we've ever seen Byram play.

On the other hand, Girard is a terrible partner for that role. I do not understand at all what Bednar is going for with that pairing. Last year Byram got 169+ more minutes with Girard than any other defenseman. Same story this year. They really need to stop forcing that pairing and just let Makar-Byram-Girard each run their own pairing.

For some reason Bo/Manson haven't quite figured it out yet this year, though Girard has only been gone for 5 games.
 
henchman21

henchman21

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Ararana said:
Thanks, I had no idea NST let you pull custom line stats like that.

Yeah, not a huge discrepancy in the pairings other than everyone gets the Makar bump in GF%. Each pairing falls in the 50s for CF%, and don't play your LHD together. Pulling Girard in makes that more evident.

With Toews not going anywhere, ideally Byram and Manson find their chemistry together going forward. I do believe Manson was brought in to play that "Toews" role for Byram on the second pairing. EJ was that guy for Bo in the cup run, and it was the best we've ever seen Byram play. Girard is a terrible partner for that role. I do not understand at all what Bednar is going for with that pairing.

For some reason Bo/Manson haven't quite figured it out yet this year, though Girard has only been gone for 5 games.
Click to expand...

Bo and G actually have pretty solid underlying together this season. Like nearly 56%xGF. Bo without G or Makar has been a disaster. 41%... even with or without Toews.

Byram/Manson didn't figure it out last season either... people overlook how bad that pairing was last season.
 
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