Rumor: 2023-24 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Part Deux

[ABasin]

And he clearly was. Prime Barrie was a #2D. Only a 2 because his flaws in his all around game made him a high event guy. He was one of the best offensive defensemen in the league in his prime.

Maybe this is the way to put it... Barrie was a poor man's Karlsson... like Byram would be a poor man's Doughty. All the same flaws, just cranked up with flashes of brilliance but never hit the level you want.

Barrie stunk defensively, always.

FWIW, so did JM Liles.

Nice to see a couple of Avs defensemen who can both score and defend.

That is all.

 

[ABasin]

Byram has this issue as a defensemen, but he's not settling into his strengths yet. Part of that has to be coaching, part has to be Byram.



Not finished, but it isn't like he's super young or inexperienced. Luke Hughes is showing flashes of taking control and he just turned 20. Seider is already a #1. Sanderson looks like a #1D at 21. Mid first guys like Guhle, York, Harley, Schneider, etc don't look far off. Byram as a top 5 pick should (rightfully) be expected to be in that Hughes/Seider/Sanderson conversation.

Age is one way to look at this. Games played is another. Byram came into this season having played under 100 NHL games (regular season).

 

[henchman21]

You and I view defenseman wildly different. But, hey, nothing wrong with that I guess. IMO Barrie was a train wreck of a defenseman who was able to hide behind secondary point production. Middle pairing offensive upside, absolutely. Top pair requires two-way game IMO.

But nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree.

I'll give you this though, you're consistent as hell with your opinions

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We can certainly disagree, nothing wrong with that.

It should be clarified that Barrie wasn't a 2nd point production leech. Of all the similar scoring defensemen of the era, he lagged behind them greatly in secondary scoring. Just take 17-18 for instance. Barrie had 14g 43a for 57 points. Carlsson lead the league that year in points by a defensemen... with 15g 53a for 68 points. So one more goal. Carlsson had 26 first assists, Barrie had 24. Barrie's inability to rack up 2nd assists was one of the main reasons he was a mid 50s guy instead of a high 60s guy. The only year Barrie got similar 2nd assists to other defensemen, he led the league in scoring by a defensemen.

I will change my opinions when I have reasons to change my opinions. I'm wrong an awful lot, so it happens a lot. Zero question about that. I just haven't seen anything to change my opinion on Byram, if anything, it is more solidified or weakening on the quality of his balance between scoring and defense.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

If you have a prime Barrie on your top pair you are not going to go far in the playoffs.

 

[henchman21]

Age is one way to look at this. Games played is another. Byram came into this season having played under 100 NHL games (regular season).

Sanderson has less than 100 games played total and looks significantly better. Seider looked better as a rookie than Byram does today. Guhle just recently played his 60th game and he looks better than Byram. In today's NHL, high end talent is expected to come in and play at a high level. This isn't the 90s where you have until 25 to show something (UFA changes have a lot to do with that, and then expansion).

If you have a prime Barrie on your top pair you are not going to go far in the playoffs.

Yeah 2nd round seemed to be the cap.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

People are way too lenient on ages... at 22 Byram should be entering his prime or already a season in it. It isn't that abnormal a peak happens at 22 for defensemen. That isn't always and some teams bring defensemen along slower that might delay a season or two. And when it comes to development, it isn't like Byram is a 6'4"-6'7" defensemen who do tend to take an extra year or two to really get going. He's a great skating, average sized defensemen.... those types usually step in right away at a very high level. They don't have the awkwardness of the big guys nor do they have the strength deficiency of the small guys. Either way, Byram really needs to level out his game over the next 18 months... if he doesn't, it probably won't ever come.

Take in account his injuries and how much those have slowed down his progress though.

That's a lot.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I disagree entirely. Byram's game emulates Makar far more than it does Toews. Byram's ceiling was never capable of coming close to Makar's, but since his days in the WHL he's been a run and gun defenseman.



But this is HFBoards where the last 5 games are the only thing that matters.

A lot of guys put up offensive numbers in Jr, and that only proves they can skate and make a first pass at the NHL level sometimes.

EJ was a run and gun type if I'm not mistaken, and so was JJ.

 

[henchman21]

Take in account his injuries and how much those have slowed down his progress though.

That's a lot.

I just don’t buy that. Other, similar level of prospects have hit higher levels in less games. Plus his style plays into his injuries.

A lot of guys put up offensive numbers in Jr, and that only proves they can skate and make a first pass at the NHL level sometimes.

EJ was a run and gun type if I'm not mistaken, and so was JJ.

Yeah JMFJ especially.

 

[NorthernAvsFan]

I don’t think Byram has the defensive ability to be a stay at home guy.

He seems to be Nurse like, where he thinks defence is cross-checking and not positioning, stickwork, and leaning on people with the body.

He needs to be a guy who’s aggressive offensively and then tries to make up for his aggressiveness with his skating, which is very high-end. He used to skate with the puck way more than he does these days. Not sure what caused him to stop doing it.

 

[ANewHope]

If you have a prime Barrie on your top pair you are not going to go far in the playoffs.

Barrie has to be one of the most overrated Avs ever. I still remember some thinking he'd get himself in the Norris conversation playing in the East lol he was a complete and utter trainwreck defensively. All of his flaws just got exposed with the more attention he got in the bigger markets.

I go back and forth with Byram. He's missed alot of development time. You've seen the flashes but also the warts in his game. I actually hate when he's playing "safe". I think he's at his best when he's aggressive offensively and pushing the pace. If he could ever sustain how he played against Tampa/that cup run for a full season than you'd have a potential 1D/top pairing defensemen but the longer we go without seeing it consistently the more worried I'll get. Still think at this point he's the guy to move in a shake up trade if it's needed.

 

[ABasin]

Sanderson has less than 100 games played total and looks significantly better. Seider looked better as a rookie than Byram does today. Guhle just recently played his 60th game and he looks better than Byram. In today's NHL, high end talent is expected to come in and play at a high level. This isn't the 90s where you have until 25 to show something (UFA changes have a lot to do with that, and then expansion).

I'm not pissing on your assessment of Byram. But I believe in his case, we have to acknowledge that he's played less than a season and a half of actual hockey.

His combination of minor penalties and lack of scoring this season are not positive indicators.

 

[lionsDen]

Anyone expecting Byram to be Makar is being delusional and unfair to Byram.

The hope is that he turns into a top pair defenseman, hopefully an all-star, but to hope he becomes an equal to arguably the greatest defenseman to ever play in the NHL is completely unfair.

Maybe I missed it but I have never heard anyone claim that byram is gonna be makar. Everyone I can recall has the same expectations as you … besides that one guy who thinks byram is our next captain.

 

[John Mandalorian]

These guys don't have Makar in front of them and all those injuries messed with his development so it had to be expected.

Personally I'm not worried about him yet. Not even the slightliest.

Fair. But it’s also fair to think he should be showing progress now or soon. Just because someone is in the habit of defending him, that doesn’t mean they can’t pivot and become concerned at some point.

Add to that the likelihood Byram is going to buck hard on his next contract, the Avs need him to be good on this contract given the possibility of losing him.

 

[The Abusement Park]

These guys don't have Makar in front of them and all those injuries messed with his development so it had to be expected.

Personally I'm not worried about him yet. Not even the slightliest.

I mean Sanderson had Chabot/Chychrun. Hughes has Dougie. Schneider has Fox in front of him. I don't really see how that entirely tracks for Byram and whatever the hell he has going on this season.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

When a player is hurt often he can play between injuries and sometimes do some kind of training during the injuries. In Byram's case because it was concussion he couldn't train/practice at all. That includes the summer as well. That is a lot of time missed compared to his peers. I"m willing to give him more time to adjust.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

I don’t think Byram has the defensive ability to be a stay at home guy.

He seems to be Nurse like, where he thinks defence is cross-checking and not positioning, stickwork, and leaning on people with the body.

He needs to be a guy who’s aggressive offensively and then tries to make up for his aggressiveness with his skating, which is very high-end. He used to skate with the puck way more than he does these days. Not sure what caused him to stop doing it.

Did we ever know 100% what his injury issues were? I thought it was hip related or leg. That could easily affect his skating ability.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I just don’t buy that. Other, similar level of prospects have hit higher levels in less games. Plus his style plays into his injuries.


Yeah JMFJ especially.

Yeah people have completely forgotten that he was an OFD. There was jokes about his plus minus numbers even.

Like worse shit than EK lol.

I still remember when him for Stastny was a rumor Dater was pushing hard.

JMFJs history is pretty crazy. I'm really glad he got a cup with us being a blue collar D man. That's a guy that's been through every rung of the ladder.

 

[niwotsblessing]

Byram played like a Young God against the bolts in the Cup Finals. We all saw his peak capacity.

Now we see him sitting in the sin bin and playing like 3rd pairing Dman. I was hoping that being paired with Manson, which began just before Sammy G. went off to heal (Bless Him!) would allow Byram to thrive on the left side with a reliable partner on the right. That has not come to fruition, and the gap between his current play and the potential he flashed is disconcerting.

Right now we need to be patient and hope he can find his game again, through his own work and with good coaching. Depending on how our season goes the off-season may be the time for a change.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Byram played like a Young God against the bolts in the Cup Finals. We all saw his peak capacity.

Now we see him sitting in the sin bin and playing like 3rd pairing Dman. I was hoping that being paired with Manson, which began just before Sammy G. went off to heal (Bless Him!) would allow Byram to thrive on the left side with a reliable partner on the right. That has not come to fruition, and the gap between his current play and the potential he flashed is disconcerting.

Right now we need to be patient and hope he can find his game again, through his own work and with good coaching. Depending on how our season goes the off-season may be the time for a change.

It's the logical choice to see what he does this season, and I don't mean part of it. I'd probably take the risk and trade him now if the right trade for a young center was offered. Outside of that it's an offseason move for one of Girard or Byram.

 

[AvStock]

Where does Byram lay among Seider and Miller types? Certainly we can’t give up on him now

 

[John Mandalorian]

Where does Byram lay among Seider and Miller types? Certainly we can’t give up on him now

Such a random question about threesomes.

 

[Richard Doll]

Maybe I missed it but I have never heard anyone claim that byram is gonna be makar. Everyone I can recall has the same expectations as you … besides that one guy who thinks byram is our next captain.

I was mentioning it due to a statement I saw in this quote.

 

[henchman21]

I was mentioning it due to a statement I saw in this quote.

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I'm painting the extreme there for sure... but there are posters in this thread recently that stated trading Byram would be Sakic gambling his job (@AvsByram04 ) and the only way they'd trade Byram is for Petey... a legit top 10 NHL player or it flat out untouchable (@AvStock ). We see lots of random comments of how Byram will be an elite #1D and that has softened over the past 18 months, but they are still there. The next time Byram goes on a heater, we will see it crop up again. There will be posters coming in saying he'll be better all around than Makar, that he's a top 10D, etc. It is pretty much like clockwork. It isn't a majority by any stretch, but they certainly exist here. When Byram is struggling, it naturally quiets down.

 

[Grigowski]

I am happy if Byram becomes a Top 4 D-Man for us and maybe can challenge Toews for the spot beside Cale.

For now, and with Girards career in limbo, Byram is as good as untouchable. Unless CMac gets an offer or lines up a trade he cant refuse.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Byram played like a Young God against the bolts in the Cup Finals. We all saw his peak capacity.

Now we see him sitting in the sin bin and playing like 3rd pairing Dman. I was hoping that being paired with Manson, which began just before Sammy G. went off to heal (Bless Him!) would allow Byram to thrive on the left side with a reliable partner on the right. That has not come to fruition, and the gap between his current play and the potential he flashed is disconcerting.

Right now we need to be patient and hope he can find his game again, through his own work and with good coaching. Depending on how our season goes the off-season may be the time for a change.

The thing thats concerning is how he's inverting. If he's going to be a swashbuckling pirate swinging around on chandeliers, it's better if he does this at the offensive end and tone it down at the defensive end. He's becoming more and more the opposite.