Rumor: 2023-24 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Part Deux

[AvStock]

Nobody is saying shoot Byram to the moon. He’s a valuable piece who could solve a significant roster hole.

Why couldn't Ritchie and Gulayev and a couple of firsts solve that? What would fill in our #3D spot? We are doomed if people are relying on Girard during the playoffs.

 

[henchman21]

I'm the first to blame the Nylanders and Matthews of this world when they try to nickel and dime their team at the expense of more chances at winning.

But this is completely different. Byram needs to have a chance to reach his potential as an athlete, there's a hard cap on how much money and the kind of stats he can have on the 2nd pairing with no PP time. Especially here with all the big names making big money.

I don’t see it as all that different. If he was paid and the role above all else… it signals what he really wants. This is speculation though, I don’t think Byram is that guy. I could be wrong, just don’t see it.

I hear you, and I like the sentiment. But we live on planet earth here, Nate took 12.5 and Mikko is probably going to get more. Makar could end up the highest paid player on the Avs in a small handful of years. Players who 'want to win more than anything else' is a myth that they tell the media. Yeah, maybe they'll knock 500k off what they could make - and you're welcome.



No one is arguing against that

It isn’t a myth… players can want to be paid and still want to win. I don’t have a problem with players getting paid.

Guys like Foppa just utterly hated to lose… more than he loved winning. If you’re building the best team… guys like like are worth every penny.

 

[AvsCOL]

If Zegras is actually available, and he’ll be healthy by the time the trade occurs, the Avs should be all over it. U23 centres like this are never available.

 

[henchman21]

Why couldn't Ritchie and Gulayev and a couple of firsts solve that? What would fill in our #3D spot? We are doomed if people are relying on Girard during the playoffs.

If you’re talking about a pending UFA… potentially. If you’re talking about a long term solution, the value likely isn’t there.

 

[Bender]

Fair but shooting Byram to the moon would be a huge mistake because then we most likely get older and have another hole in defense. Hope he gets going soon.

I'd rather have Zegras than Ritchie and Gulyaev. Those 2 will do nothing for us during our window if Zegras can't. But wanting to jettison Byram and keep Girard? People in here have weird takes sometimes.

What if it's not necessarily what people want but what people think will happen ?

I'll be pretty surprised if Byram is still here at the start of training camp next year.

 

[Balthazar]

What if it's not necessarily what people want but what people think will happen ?

I'll be pretty surprised if Byram is still here at the start of training camp next year.

Yep. Byram's place long term was next to Makar but that's no longer possible because of the Toews contract.

 

[RockLobster]

Yep. Byram's place long term was next to Makar but that's no longer possible because of the Toews contract.

Am I incorrect or have the times they've been tried together not typically gone well for either?

 

[henchman21]

What if it's not necessarily what people want but what people think will happen ?

I'll be pretty surprised if Byram is still here at the start of training camp next year.

I'm on the other side... I'll be surprised is Byram is gone prior to 2025. Avs don't typically like to trade their young 'core' guys and they give them a lot of rope. Newhook could be considered an exception here and a signal thinking has changed. But beyond him, they tend to lean towards waiting too long to make changes vs being proactive.

I personally think that the Avs will only move Byram in two situations.. he continues to struggle and they make a change of scenery hockey trade next season near the deadline. Or he's demanding ~$7-8+m on his next deal with stats to support it and the Avs know they can't keep him under the cap. If he plays moderately well (middle pairing level) and is willing to sign something like a 6x6... I'm pretty sure the Avs will just keep him. In any of these instances, it doesn't signal a trade happening this season or summer.

Saying all of that, he'd be the piece I'd shop for a long-term solution.

 

[Balthazar]

Am I incorrect or have the times they've been tried together not typically gone well for either?

They didn't play nearly enough together to reach a conclusion.

 

[henchman21]

Am I incorrect or have the times they've been tried together not typically gone well for either?

Byram-Makar tends to be a good pairing... mostly because anybody with Makar is good. Makar tends to be worse with Byram than with Toews.

 

[Ararana]

Yep. Byram's place long term was next to Makar but that's no longer possible because of the Toews contract.

If Byram stays in Colorado long enough he'll probably still get that spot in 3ish years. But I doubt he wants to wait that long.

 

[Balthazar]

If Byram stays in Colorado long enough he'll probably still get that spot in 3ish years. But I doubt he wants to wait that long.

He's on a 2 year bridge, he wants good stats this year and next year.

 

[henchman21]

He's on a 2 year bridge, he wants good stats this year and next year.

Probably too late for that. He'd have to go on an insane run returning from injury to have good stats this year. Even ignoring the defensive issues... he's only pacing about 24-25 points. Say he comes back with ~35 games to play and he goes PPG... we are still only talking 47 points in 74 games. And that pacing seems incredibly unlikely.

 

[Bender]

Question for @henchman21 :

If Behrens signs with the Avs after his season is over, can he play in the regular season/playoffs ?

(Wasn't there a rule a while back where they could only play in the regular season but not the playoffs)

 

[John Mandalorian]

Byram has to show he’s willing to play defense again. The past two seasons combined, the only ‘defensemen’ who gives up high danger chances at a higher rate is Dermy. In xGA/60,
Dermy and EJ are the only two worse. In actual GA/60 only G gives up at a higher rate.

This idea that Byram is even acceptable defensively right now is a myth. He’s been bad to very bad defensively for two seasons. Capability is there, but he hasn’t shown it in long while now.

Why a myth and not a canard?

 

[henchman21]

Question for @henchman21 :

If Behrens signs with the Avs after his season is over, can he play in the regular season/playoffs ?

(Wasn't there a rule a while back where they could only play in the regular season but not the playoffs)

Behrens can play both. That rule is about the reserve list... if a player is not on the reserve list by the end of the trade deadline, they cannot play in the playoffs for a team. Any player the Avs have rights to (signed, drafted and unsigned, traded for and unsigned) on that day are eligible. College UFAs that are not on a reserve list, like Meyers, are not eligible for the playoffs.

 

[Balthazar]

Probably too late for that. He'd have to go on an insane run returning from injury to have good stats this year. Even ignoring the defensive issues... he's only pacing about 24-25 points. Say he comes back with ~35 games to play and he goes PPG... we are still only talking 47 points in 74 games. And that pacing seems incredibly unlikely.

I don't disagree but that's in line with what I said earlier: taking more risks because he doesn't have opportunities.

I could be wrong of course, perhaps he's OK with being stuck on the 2nd pair with no PP time for his entire bridge and beyond.

I'd be surprised, though. I know I wouldn't be happy in this situation if I were a 4th OA pick and people painted me as a future #1.

 

[henchman21]

I don't disagree but that's in line with what I said earlier: taking more risks because he doesn't have opportunities.

I could be wrong of course, perhaps he's OK with being stuck on the 2nd pair with no PP time for his entire bridge and beyond.

I'd be surprised, though. I know I wouldn't be happy in this situation if I were a 4th OA pick and people painted me as a future #1.

I just come back to this as a problem if it is happening. He's not talented enough to be a #1 and being a #4 pick doesn't make you necessarily better than anybody else. If he wants a bigger role and responsibility, he needs to earn it. Toews is not so amazing that he can't be surpassed and Bednar has shown he will ride hot hands. Play better and the role follows.

This whole idea of top picks always having to be top guys just isn't reality. We have a good example on the roster in Jack Johnson. Even EJ accepted a lower role as time went on. Guys like Bogosian and Schenn just ended up being dudes in the league eventhough they were top 5 picks... Sometimes knowing your role is an important factor in outcome.

 

[JLo217]

Yep. Byram's place long term was next to Makar but that's no longer possible because of the Toews contract.

With the way Towes is playing he’s worth every dollar.

Regarding Byram versus trading prospects in picks. You use Byram for huge need. Picks and prospects help you fill out the other needs. Just my opinion. But they can go into the playoffs as a behemoth if they use their assets correctly, get Landy back, get Kovalenko over, and get some shrewd trades done. Let’s get one more cup!

 

[Bender]

I just come back to this as a problem if it is happening. He's not talented enough to be a #1 and being a #4 pick doesn't make you necessarily better than anybody else. If he wants a bigger role and responsibility, he needs to earn it. Toews is not so amazing that he can't be surpassed and Bednar has shown he will ride hot hands. Play better and the role follows.

This whole idea of top picks always having to be top guys just isn't reality. We have a good example on the roster in Jack Johnson. Even EJ accepted a lower role as time went on. Guys like Bogosian and Schenn just ended up being dudes in the league eventhough they were top 5 picks... Sometimes knowing your role is an important factor in outcome.

That's 100% true but none of those guys 'accepted' their lower roles at age 22 or were probably happy about it being the outcome. Most of those guys' expectations were probably through the roof when they were 22 as well. I believe you are correct with your assessment that's he's likely a middle pairing guy and a Top-4 guy long-term but in his mind, that's probably not his expectation.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Yep. Byram's place long term was next to Makar but that's no longer possible because of the Toews contract.

Well Byram kinda forced the Avs hand on the Toews contract by not being able to stay healthy and just not being that good the last two years. That and Toews has been the perfect partner for Makar while also being a great top pairing guy.

 

[Balthazar]

I just come back to this as a problem if it is happening. He's not talented enough to be a #1 and being a #4 pick doesn't make you necessarily better than anybody else. If he wants a bigger role and responsibility, he needs to earn it. Toews is not so amazing that he can't be surpassed and Bednar has shown he will ride hot hands. Play better and the role follows.

This whole idea of top picks always having to be top guys just isn't reality. We have a good example on the roster in Jack Johnson. Even EJ accepted a lower role as time went on. Guys like Bogosian and Schenn just ended up being dudes in the league eventhough they were top 5 picks... Sometimes knowing your role is an important factor in outcome.

I'm not saying he'll be a #1, I'm saying he'll want the opportunity to prove that he isn't one. He's not going to get that here.

 

[henchman21]

That's 100% true but none of those guys 'accepted' their lower roles at age 22 or were probably happy about it being the outcome. Most of those guys' expectations were probably through the roof when they were 22 as well. I believe you are correct with your assessment that's he's likely a middle pairing guy and a Top-4 guy long-term but in his mind, that's probably not his expectation.

I feel like Bogosian certainly accepted his role. EJ/Schenn were traded roughly in that age range and had to go through another round of expectations. JMFJ was a bit later, but was at a time he was showing a lot more.

I've said before Byram is at a critical age... he's right at the point where teams start ignoring potential and look at what he is. Each will be a little bit different in their timeframe and he's not at the end of the plank yet... he's on that plank though.

 

[Chiarelli]

Yep. Byram's place long term was next to Makar but that's no longer possible because of the Toews contract.

The contract was necessitated from Byram not taking the next step.

 

[dahrougem2]

I can see Byram asking for a trade.

It's not easy to go from being "the man" in junior (and on Canada's WJC team) to the NHL where it's quite obvious two defensemen (arguably three depending on your Girard thoughts) are better than you.

To this guy, there weren't three better defensemen than him in his entire draft - now there are three on his own team? That could cause some negativity even after he won the Stanley Cup at such a young age.

Players have shelf lives to make certain amounts of money. There's a chance Byram looks at other teams needing defensemen and wonders "if I was there, I would be playing 23-24 minutes nightly and PP1 putting up 50+ points."

He might look at Drysdale and think "wow, he's going to a team where he gets to be THE guy" and feel a little jealous. Drysdale goes from a crowded Ducks blueline featuring Mintyukov/Fowler offensively to a Flyers blueline starving for that kind of defensemen. If he produces, he lines up a fat contract for himself.

Money is obviously not everything BUT if you feel like you're capped playing behind guys, there's reason to believe a player would want out not due to dislike of the team/org/teammates but because they want the most for themselves.