Speculation: 2023-24 Roster Thread

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Rybread86

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Lot of nights it feels like his partners are pickin up his slack this year, but people want to ignore that or give it a pass.


And it can be a combination of coaching, management decisions and fowler just taking significant steps back/aging.

I dont see it that way. Some nights? Sure, thats normal, no one is always on. Hes had bad games, and some of those bad games are on him. Some of those games are on his partners. but to say "some people want to ignore that or give it a pass" it goes both ways and Ill lean on the outside factors of his coaches giving him the ice time regardless of the gripes and what this org has done around him. Also, you mean to tell me that a guy playing 25+ minutes may need some help from his D partner from time to time? Weird.

No doubt though that he either has or will start to regress. But his point totals the past 2 seasons have been career highs without having good D partners. Hes also on pace to hit 40 points again.

Hes being asked to do a ton and when you overload someone, you dont always get 5 star performances in every facet of the game.

The stupid thing to me is that anyone would look at him and go "Hes the problem". No, hes a product of the problem.
 

Hockey Duckie

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Fowler's a 2nd pairing OFD forced into a 1st pairing shutdown role. On top of that, he's also forced to play on the PK. Both of these events occurred when Verbeek traded away Lindholm.

Now, could Fowler get respite by not being on the PK unit? Yes, but whoever is in charge of the PK unit is too reliant on Fowler. Once Vaak started playing well, I thought that would have been the perfect time to replace Fowler on the PK unit.

LaCombe-Gudas
Vaak-Lyubushkin

Then Fowler becomes more effective because he's not wearing down even more by not being on the PK unit.

I can't ding Fowler for being put into situation he's not made for. That's not his fault, that's Verbeek's responsibility.
 

Hamilton Bulldogs

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I don't think Fowler works well for a team like the ducks.

His effort isn't always there, he doesn't get engaged in after whistle scrums even if someone is slapping around a rookie, he takes way more shots than he should despite having the accuracy of Stevie wonder, his skating isn't really what it once was and overall I don't see what he brings to the table for Anaheim.

Decent career and at one point he was one the better d-man in the league but I think it's time to find him a new home.
 

The Duck Knight

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I don't think Fowler works well for a team like the ducks.

His effort isn't always there, he doesn't get engaged in after whistle scrums even if someone is slapping around a rookie, he takes way more shots than he should despite having the accuracy of Stevie wonder, his skating isn't really what it once was and overall I don't see what he brings to the table for Anaheim.

Decent career and at one point he was one the better d-man in the league but I think it's time to find him a new home.

He's still worth far more to the Ducks than he is in a trade with his limited NTC.
 
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duckpuck

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This times a thousand

Fowler's contract is not a problem. Had the cap grown as expected (i.e., no COVID), Cam's contract would have been a steal. Currently, its just fine. The only argument that I would make is that the dollars should have been spent on Hampus instead.

And just to be clear, I'm a big critic of Murray and often criticize Fowler's play on the ice. But at worst, he's been a solid 2/3 for the full duration of his contract (which incidentally covers his prime years). The $$ is just fine.
 

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Fowler is such a whipping boy for this board.

He is 17th in PPP among defensemen in the league this year. Wanna guess how many above him have less PP TOI/GP? Zero. In fact, he is 42nd in the league in PP TOI/GP. Despite this people think he shouldnt be on the PP lol.

He is playing out of position, in a role above his abilities, in situations his game is not suited for. If he was on a team like Boston where he could play 20 minutes a game, 17 minutes at ES and 3 minutes on the PP, he would be one of the best #3 in the league.

We need to stop acting like his contract is some boat anchor. It is the 34th highest contract in the league among defensemen and it expires at age 34. It is easily market value for a #2/3 in the NHL. If he went UFA right now he would likely get a raise considering what Orlov, Gavrikov, Severson, etc. have recently signed.
 

AngelDuck

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His contract is not a boat anchor. But I really question where he fits on this team moving forward with Mintyukov, LaCombe, Zellweger, Vaakanainen all on the left side and all in the NHL. Not to mention the possibility of drafting Dickonson

Can anyone answer that?
 

WhatTheDuck

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His contract is not a boat anchor. But I really question where he fits on this team moving forward with Mintyukov, LaCombe, Zellweger, Vaakanainen all on the left side and all in the NHL. Not to mention the possibility of drafting Dickonson

Can anyone answer that?

I don't entirely disagree with the notion, my concern is just that at least one of those guys has to play top pairing minutes every night in the absence of Fowler. If anyone is being forced to tread water I'd rather it be a veteran.
 

The Duck Knight

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His contract is not a boat anchor. But I really question where he fits on this team moving forward with Mintyukov, LaCombe, Zellweger, Vaakanainen all on the left side and all in the NHL. Not to mention the possibility of drafting Dickonson

Can anyone answer that?

Doesn't really matter because it isn't worth giving him away for free until those guys actually supplant him? Mintyukov is well on his way to doing so. The rest not so much.
 

robbieboy3686

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His contract is not a boat anchor. But I really question where he fits on this team moving forward with Mintyukov, LaCombe, Zellweger, Vaakanainen all on the left side and all in the NHL. Not to mention the possibility of drafting Dickonson

Can anyone answer that?
The answer is he doesn’t fit in our longterm plans. I am sticking to my guns, we will sign/trade for a tp potential physical rhd this summer. One who will play with cam next season, and next season cam is traded ( probably in the summer ) by then minty will firmly be our #2 lhd
 

AngelDuck

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Doesn't really matter because it isn't worth giving him away for free until those guys actually supplant him? Mintyukov is well on his way to doing so. The rest not so much.
Not all of them need to supplant him though. You need one guy who can be a passable top pairing guy (Mintyukov) and 2 others to be #3-6’s. Vaakanainen is already a great #5. LaCombe and Zellweger are going to be a lot better this time next season

I just don’t see how they can all get the minutes needed to progress with Fowler playing 25 minutes a night the next 2 seasons

I don't entirely disagree with the notion, my concern is just that at least one of those guys has to play top pairing minutes every night in the absence of Fowler. If anyone is being forced to tread water I'd rather it be a veteran.
Mintyukov is going to be a guy we WANT playing 22+ minutes a night on the top pairing next year IMO
 

Rybread86

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His contract is not a boat anchor. But I really question where he fits on this team moving forward with Mintyukov, LaCombe, Zellweger, Vaakanainen all on the left side and all in the NHL. Not to mention the possibility of drafting Dickonson

Can anyone answer that?

Like we've seen before, guys will play their off side and you still need veteran presence/leadership. I dont see anything happening with Cam until his UFA season at the earliest, and all of those guys you listed still need to beat him out. Minty is trending in that direction. Zelle looked good but hes got a ways to go before he pushes out a veteran like Cam. And then LaCombe and Vaaks aren't in the same league as the others.
 
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AngelDuck

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Like we've seen before, guys will play their off side and you still need veteran presence/leadership. I dont see anything happening with Cam until his UFA season at the earliest, and all of those guys you listed still need to beat him out. Minty is trending in that direction. Zelle looked good but hes got a ways to go before he pushes out a veteran like Cam. And then LaCombe and Vaaks aren't in the same league as the others.
But this is the problem here. You act like guys playing their off side next to Cam is a good thing. It hasn’t been.

I want veterans in the lineup and think Cam is a fine player. He just doesn’t fit here!
 

branmuffin17

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His contract is not a boat anchor. But I really question where he fits on this team moving forward with Mintyukov, LaCombe, Zellweger, Vaakanainen all on the left side and all in the NHL. Not to mention the possibility of drafting Dickonson

Can anyone answer that?
The Ducks are definitely shifting into a different type of composition, specifically because the D men we have in the system are often focused on 2-way and offensive play with mobility. Fowler is older, and management knows he will never be a #1. Fowler's skill set is an aging version of an offensive D.

But I honestly don't get it. Maybe people are just ignoring certain things. This team is not ready to ice Minty, LaCombe, Z, Vaak, Gudas and Lybushkin, or I dunno, replace Vaak and Lybushkin with OTHER prospects...like Hinds, injured Luneau, Helleson, etc. Development is still a thing, and while I think our rookies and prospects could handle high pressure and getting overrun without being completely demoralized, we're not really at that point yet where we need to throw a really young team to the wolves.

Until the point where they're actually ready to push for the playoffs, Fowler's contract and spot isn't really an issue from my perspective. Even when we're ready to push for the playoffs, if we're not in a salary crunch situation, it's not like he's absolutely destroying development of other players.

So does he fit? For right now, yeah I think he still does. In the next season or two? That's more questionable in terms of taking a spot for someone we want to get more experience, but still not the worst thing. And for some players playing opposite side, I probably wouldn't mind seeing Zell playing RD, could be great for one-timers when set up in the O zone or for allowing him to skate in and cross the center line to make the goalie move.
 
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Rybread86

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But this is the problem here. You act like guys playing their off side next to Cam is a good thing. It hasn’t been.

I want veterans in the lineup and think Cam is a fine player. He just doesn’t fit here!

Earning you spot is always a good thing. If these guys can push out Cam, then they havent earned it. Cam fits as long as he isnt pushed out and right now I only see 1 guy capable of pushing him. The others either arent at his level or arent polished enough to do so yet.

1 guy is biting at Cams heels. Minty. The rest arent there yet. And go back to Beeker talking about having patience with the prospects, some of these guys can still play in SD and continue to grow before being called up fulltime.

Maybe the draft changes that. Maybe not. Maybe Zelle pushes himself to an everyday NHLer. Maybe they keep him in SD.

This blueline is not deep, at all. And were talking about pushing out Cam because there are 19 year old prospects that are entitled to his spot? Take it from him.
 

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Doesn't really matter because it isn't worth giving him away for free until those guys actually supplant him? Mintyukov is well on his way to doing so. The rest not so much.
What’s the idea that they all need to supplant him….

Once a player is ready to start taking on 22+ mins a night, which very well could be mintyukov Next year…. Does fowler have much value in our bottom 4? I’d rather use that money + roster spot for a better fit in the line up. Do we keep fowler and continue to force young guys to play their off hand side.

Lacombe/vaaks + gudas has shown to be an acceptable 2nd/3rd pairing combination(and should be better with another year on lacombe/Vaaks).

zellweger is going to be tough to keep out of the nhl next year.

What we need is a solid 2way rhd to pair with Mintyukov, Fowler doesn’t fit that, or someone that can play next to zellweger, again fowler isn’t what I’d call a good fit. Do we put gudas with zellweger, and keep fowler in 2nd pair mins with lacombe? Cause I don’t think that pairing works well regardless of mins and matchups

This all ignores luneau/hinds/helleson… I do think we need at least 1 more older/vet guy on the defense…. I just don’t think fowler is type we need
 
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AngelDuck

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Earning you spot is always a good thing. If these guys can push out Cam, then they havent earned it. Cam fits as long as he isnt pushed out and right now I only see 1 guy capable of pushing him. The others either arent at his level or arent polished enough to do so yet.

1 guy is biting at Cams heels. Minty. The rest arent there yet. And go back to Beeker talking about having patience with the prospects, some of these guys can still play in SD and continue to grow before being called up fulltime.

Maybe the draft changes that. Maybe not. Maybe Zelle pushes himself to an everyday NHLer. Maybe they keep him in SD.

This blueline is not deep, at all. And were talking about pushing out Cam because there are 19 year old prospects that are entitled to his spot? Take it from him.
Disagree that the defense won’t be deep by October next year. It isn’t good but it’s deep and there’s a ton of guys challenging
 

Zegs2sendhelp

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Earning you spot is always a good thing. If these guys can push out Cam, then they havent earned it. Cam fits as long as he isnt pushed out and right now I only see 1 guy capable of pushing him. The others either arent at his level or arent polished enough to do so yet.

1 guy is biting at Cams heels. Minty. The rest arent there yet. And go back to Beeker talking about having patience with the prospects, some of these guys can still play in SD and continue to grow before being called up fulltime.

Maybe the draft changes that. Maybe not. Maybe Zelle pushes himself to an everyday NHLer. Maybe they keep him in SD.

This blueline is not deep, at all. And were talking about pushing out Cam because there are 19 year old prospects that are entitled to his spot? Take it from him.
why are we acting like fowler is some big block for the young guys…. Fowler has looked bad, his body language has looked bad…. His best attribute his skating has not looked anywhere near his level.

Again not saying we don’t need vet, just saying I fowlers isn’t a great fit going forward. If anything he ends up hurting the young players more than he helps them once he’s passed up as top pairing guy
 

Deuce22

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All the people that want Cam here as a placeholder until the young guys are ready are ignoring something. He isn't placeholding well. His pairing is getting abused many nights. He is playing the most minutes on the PP of any D. Why? So the Ducks can win games? He is killing penalties on a bad PK. Why don't we see what Urho or Minty can do there? I don't see it as a positive that he is eating minutes. Those minutes could be going to guys that we are trying to develop. This is a rebuilding year. Fowler and Gibson's cap hits and playing time could could be useful in the rebuild.
 

JAHV

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I don't think Fowler works well for a team like the ducks.

His effort isn't always there, he doesn't get engaged in after whistle scrums even if someone is slapping around a rookie, he takes way more shots than he should despite having the accuracy of Stevie wonder, his skating isn't really what it once was and overall I don't see what he brings to the table for Anaheim.

Decent career and at one point he was one the better d-man in the league but I think it's time to find him a new home.
I have zero reason to question his effort. He gets involved in scrums even if he's not throwing haymakers in there. He takes shots when he's open, he's just not very good at getting them through to the net (this has always been one of his main issues). His skating has declined, but it's fine.

I'm ok if the Ducks can find a trade partner for him, but that's simply because they're stacked on the left side. They'd need to replace him with a veteran right side guy, but I think they probably need to find a RD anyway. I'm not saying he's an indispensable cog in the next great Ducks team.

But I do think he's incredibly valuable as a leader and a veteran mentor for the youngsters right now. I think his presence in the lineup, even if it means playing poorly in a role he's not suited for, is great for the kids' development. As those guys improve and are capable of taking more, tougher minutes, Fowler's ice time will decrease.
 
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