Speculation: 2023-24 Roster Thread

[Hockey Duckie]

"Ice, ice, baby... too cold, too cold."

Here are players who have played in the top-6 role and our top-2 scoring defensemen.

Mac has been finding ways to get onto the scoreboard this season in a majority of games. Also, that Vatrano-Mac-Strome line is effective despite a lull that forced a multi-line roster change up. That roster change up wasn't good and we reverted to keeping the Vatrano-Mac-Strome line.

 

[Ducks DVM]

"Ice, ice, baby... too cold, too cold."

Here are players who have played in the top-6 role and our top-2 scoring defensemen.

View attachment 773217

Mac has been finding ways to get onto the scoreboard this season in a majority of games. Also, that Vatrano-Mac-Strome line is effective despite a lull that forced a multi-line roster change up. That roster change up wasn't good and we reverted to keeping the Vatrano-Mac-Strome line.

Just highlight Carlsson and Henrique as well, there’s no statistical difference between them and Terry. Nobody is working well/consistently on the top line, and that includes Carlsson, he’s been bad 2 of the last 3 games. Those two at the bottom are the main drivers of the top line being worthless though.

 

[Leonardo87]

Just highlight Carlsson and Henrique as well, there’s no statistical difference between them and Terry. Nobody is working well/consistently on the top line, and that includes Carlsson, he’s been bad 2 of the last 3 games. Those two at the bottom are the main drivers of the top line being worthless though.

We only have one scoring line, and I’ve said it before yesterday was a game Leo should have sat for if they are following this so called load management plan.

We are 9-11-0 because (cut out the Colorado and Flyers game) we are not bleeding goals as much as last season. Issue is we are a one line team that is icing a decent PP, and special teams have gotten us more wins. Sadly the league chooses to give us more PKs than PPs

We have to figure things out 5 on 5, and Leo, Terry, and when Z gets back will be critical in that.

 

[ScarTroy]

Just highlight Carlsson and Henrique as well, there’s no statistical difference between them and Terry. Nobody is working well/consistently on the top line, and that includes Carlsson, he’s been bad 2 of the last 3 games. Those two at the bottom are the main drivers of the top line being worthless though.

That’s the frustrating thing about Terry, is he’s actually producing and does make some really nice plays (Carlsson 2nd and 3rd goal in his hatty game.) The problem is he is trying to make something out of nothing too often, and holding onto the puck too long. I’ve been critical of him, but I fully expect him to figure it out, and he hasn’t been near as frustrating to me as Killorn.

 

[DuckDuckGetz]

I said this to the season ticket holder who sits next to me when we were discussing what we would want on the top line instead of Killorn. Carrick Leo Terry gives speed, grit, and a forechecker on the line so Terry doesn’t have to do it, and he has enough skill to not fumble away passes and has a shot.

I also think Carrick has a "no fancy shit, just get it done" mentality that Terry could use a little (or a lot) of

 

[Hamilton Bulldogs]

Its hard for me to be overly harsh on Terry. His linemates have either been hurt or have been purposely sat for "load management". Difficult to build chemistry like that, especially in a new system.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Its hard for me to be overly harsh on Terry. His linemates have either been hurt or have been purposely sat for "load management". Difficult to build chemistry like that, especially in a new system.

The game mgmt affects two lines, the first and third lines, as we have rotated between Z, Rico, Jones, and Killorn at 1LW. Rico has been swapping between LW and C.

Still, Terry has been invisible in far too many games in both the scoresheet and eye test. Our highest paid player on the team, making $7 mil AAV, is now a complementary player. The Ducks top scorer is on the second year of his ELC, being paid $0.89 mil AAV for this season and next.

 

[Ducks DVM]

The game mgmt affects two lines, the first and third lines, as we have rotated between Z, Rico, Jones, and Killorn at 1LW. Rico has been swapping between LW and C.

Still, Terry has been invisible in far too many games in both the scoresheet and eye test. Our highest paid player on the team, making $7 mil AAV, is now a complementary player. The Ducks top scorer is on the second year of his ELC, being paid $0.89 mil AAV for this season and next.

He’s not being given the puck in areas where he can score, and when he makes beautiful setup passes multiple times per game (which does actually happen multiple times per game), nobody scores. That’s not being complementary, that’s being the borderline 1st line player he’s being paid like. Everyone keeps saying he’s getting 7M (and some inaccurately 8M), but that’s tied for the 92nd highest Cap hit in the league. He shouldn’t be expected to carry a line of players playing like they’re 4th liners.

 

[Ducks DVM]

I also think Carrick has a "no fancy shit, just get it done" mentality that Terry could use a little (or a lot) of

The problem is that part of what makes Terry the player he is IS the fancy shit. I agree he needs less, but I think he’s too in his head again. That’s what he needs a LOT less of. Like 0%.

 

[Leonardo87]

There’s just no chemistry with the top line, and they didn’t score in the beginning because Zegras although the effort was there was not right, he was off, likely due to missing training camp. A lot of shots would have went in for him last year that he has made this year.

Top line needs some grit , and that was supposed to be Killorn who has struggled coming into the season, can also blame the lack of preseason/camp.

On paper Killorn - Carlsson - Terry on paper should work but blame the load management, Terry being off, Killorn being off, I dunno.

 

[2faded]

There’s just no chemistry with the top line, and they didn’t score in the beginning because Zegras although the effort was there was not right, he was off, likely due to missing training camp. A lot of shots would have went in for him last year that he has made this year.

Top line needs some grit , and that was supposed to be Killorn who has struggled coming into the season, can also blame the lack of preseason/camp.

On paper Killorn - Carlsson - Terry on paper should work but blame the load management, Terry being off, Killorn being off, I dunno.

I think that line did work at first. Killorn's play in recent games hasn't been nearly as good as the first 3-4. We know Terry's issues this season and Carlsson, while mostly good, has been inconsistent. But he isn't going to do it all himself, so with the other two not playing that well, the line isn't doing much.

 

[DavidBL]

I think it's important to allow some time for Killorn to adjust. It may take awhile. Look at what Strome was able to do so far this year vs last. Killorn also missed most of training camp like Z and D. The injuries those players suffered are supposedly because they went from 60 to 100. That happens when you're young and haven't encountered situations where you have to build up slowly, you just want to go. Killorn is a vet. He knows he can't go 60-100, especially at 34.

 

[anezthes]

...they didn’t score in the beginning because Zegras...

Yeah, no.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

There are some high dollar players not pulling their weight, it sucks

I think it's important to allow some time for Killorn to adjust. It may take awhile. Look at what Strome was able to do so far this year vs last. Killorn also missed most of training camp like Z and D. The injuries those players suffered are supposedly because they went from 60 to 100. That happens when you're young and haven't encountered situations where you have to build up slowly, you just want to go. Killorn is a vet. He knows he can't go 60-100, especially at 34.

Killorn is 34 with tons of mileage on his body. We may also be in for a harsh reality with him soon that it's not going to get alot better either

 

[DavidBL]

There are some high dollar players not pulling their weight, it sucks


Killorn is 34 with tons of mileage on his body. We may also be in for a harsh reality with him soon that it's not going to get alot better either

It's a possibility for sure. Just saying it's too early to write him off yet.

 

[The Duck Knight]

I think it's important to allow some time for Killorn to adjust. It may take awhile. Look at what Strome was able to do so far this year vs last. Killorn also missed most of training camp like Z and D. The injuries those players suffered are supposedly because they went from 60 to 100. That happens when you're young and haven't encountered situations where you have to build up slowly, you just want to go. Killorn is a vet. He knows he can't go 60-100, especially at 34.

Obviously just IMO but Strome sucks too. Killorn could just as easily ride passenger to a McT-Frankie heater like Strome did. Just like with Terry I'm not going to equate production with quality play.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

There’s just no chemistry with the top line, and they didn’t score in the beginning because Zegras although the effort was there was not right, he was off, likely due to missing training camp. A lot of shots would have went in for him last year that he has made this year.

Top line needs some grit , and that was supposed to be Killorn who has struggled coming into the season, can also blame the lack of preseason/camp.

On paper Killorn - Carlsson - Terry on paper should work but blame the load management, Terry being off, Killorn being off, I dunno.

I’d disagree, bout the line not scoring because of zegras, he was out playing terry by a big margin, minus the game he was sat.

He def had some bad luck, but he was creating chances and getting scoring opportunities…. Plays are dying on terrys stick all game long all season. If terry wants to be that puck hog player, put him on 3rd line

Killorn carlsson zegras
Vatrano mctavish strome
Jones Henrique terry
Leason carrick johnston

 

[McDonald19]

Obviously just IMO but Strome sucks too. Killorn could just as easily ride passenger to a McT-Frankie heater like Strome did. Just like with Terry I'm not going to equate production with quality play.

Maybe, but Strome is a right hand shot and has some chemistry with Frank.

 

[All Mighty]

I think most should agree that LaCombe should not play with Fowler in the foreseeable future. In order of preference, this is who I would like to see fill that spot: Gudas, Lyubushkin, Vaakanainen (and maybe Luneau depending on the opponent). I’m cool with moving LaCombe to the 3rd pairing, but I also wouldn’t hate him getting sent to the AHL. If he were sent to the AHL, then the 2 obvious call up options would be Hagg and Zellweger, who both obviously would fill very different needs.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

He’s not being given the puck in areas where he can score, and when he makes beautiful setup passes multiple times per game (which does actually happen multiple times per game), nobody scores. That’s not being complementary, that’s being the borderline 1st line player he’s being paid like. Everyone keeps saying he’s getting 7M (and some inaccurately 8M), but that’s tied for the 92nd highest Cap hit in the league. He shouldn’t be expected to carry a line of players playing like they’re 4th liners.

First off, I love Terry. I don't want him traded or think he'll be a bust, but he isn't carrying his weight as the highest paid Duck. You can rationalize it by saying he's tied for 92nd highest Cap hit in the league, but it's kinda thwarted when McTavish is a ppg player on the 2nd year of his ELC, making under $1 AAV.

I think this is where we differ. Before Terry's breakout, he has always looked good on the ice, but had a major lack of production. Eakins sent him back down to the AHL because he looked great on the NHL ice, but a lack of production. To be on NHL ice, you gotta produce. 2021-22 happened and Terry became a goal scorer with 37 goals.

Last year, I noticed Terry didn't mesh with McTavish well b/c Terry didn't want to give up the puck. I kinda factored it as they're both alpha players. Terry's offense was effective last year despite playing puck hero. This year's Terry has his offense gone missing. Is the change from Eakins system to Cronin's that drastic that Terry isn't as effective despite holding onto the puck far too long? Does Terry have trust issues to not pass the puck more often so that he can also receive the puck to where he can score?

Terry Scoring rate

2020-21: 0.42 ppg (7 goals)​

2021-22: 0.89 ppg (37 goals)​

2022-23: 0.87 ppg (23 goals)​

2023-24: 0.62 ppg (5 goals in 21 games)​

Terry is supposed to be carrying players, elevating their play. It's a misdirection to cite Terry is playing with players that are playing like 4th liners when Terry's play is also like a 4th liner on many a nights... silent. We don't have "top line Terry" early this season, with the exception of his 4-point game. 4th line Terry needs to find Top Line Terry... I'll be happy with Top Line Terry showing up only on the PP.

 

[Ducks DVM]

First off, I love Terry. I don't want him traded or think he'll be a bust, but he isn't carrying his weight as the highest paid Duck. You can rationalize it by saying he's tied for 92nd highest Cap hit in the league, but it's kinda thwarted when McTavish is a ppg player on the 2nd year of his ELC, making under $1 AAV.

I think this is where we differ. Before Terry's breakout, he has always looked good on the ice, but had a major lack of production. Eakins sent him back down to the AHL because he looked great on the NHL ice, but a lack of production. To be on NHL ice, you gotta produce. 2021-22 happened and Terry became a goal scorer with 37 goals.

Last year, I noticed Terry didn't mesh with McTavish well b/c Terry didn't want to give up the puck. I kinda factored it as they're both alpha players. Terry's offense was effective last year despite playing puck hero. This year's Terry has his offense gone missing. Is the change from Eakins system to Cronin's that drastic that Terry isn't as effective despite holding onto the puck far too long? Does Terry have trust issues to not pass the puck more often so that he can also receive the puck to where he can score?

Terry Scoring rate

2020-21: 0.42 ppg (7 goals)​

2021-22: 0.89 ppg (37 goals)​

2022-23: 0.87 ppg (23 goals)​

2023-24: 0.62 ppg (5 goals in 21 games)​

Terry is supposed to be carrying players, elevating their play. It's a misdirection to cite Terry is playing with players that are playing like 4th liners when Terry's play is also like a 4th liner on many a nights... silent. We don't have "top line Terry" early this season, with the exception of his 4-point game. 4th line Terry needs to find Top Line Terry... I'll be happy with Top Line Terry showing up only on the PP.

Terry, when he was having issues with his shot last year, was able to be a playmaker, and maintain his team leading PPG stats by elevating his assists. This year, when he’s struggling with his shot, he is making passes that should result in goals…and don’t. His Cap hit is not that of a line carrying goal scorer, and comparing it to someone’s ELC production is a non-sequitur. Vatrano and Strome are both playing more reliably than any of Terry’s linemates (including Carlsson), and the people who should be doing the chasing on the top line aren’t doing it, meaning Terry does, which is something he’s not suited for either physically or skillset-wise, and when he DOES get the puck, the other players (including Carlsson) aren’t going to the proper places to support him. It’s all well and good to rage about him holding the puck too long, but it’s pretty rare for the people complaining to analyze who exactly he’s supposed to be passing the puck to, or ask why nobody is ever setting a screen for him or is in place for a rebound if he shoots and doesn’t score.

He‘s a low level 1st line player, being forced into a system that his skill set isn’t ideal for, with linemates who are slow, often out of position, and also don’t understand the system Cronin wants. And have pretty atrocious shooting %’s. As an aside, Vatrano and McTavish are riding unsustainable shooting percentages. Hopefully Strome is as well, but…Strome.

 

[Deuce22]

it's easy to attribute the losing streak to being a young team, I'm actually more concerned about the lackluster play of some vets. Specifically Killorn, Fowler, and Terry. Yes, LaCombe is being slotted way over his head, but has the skills to be a good two way D if more appropriately placed. Killorn looks very slow and isn't as physical as I had hoped. Fowler is who he is, a second pairing guy with little or no special teams time on a good team. Terry is lost out there, constantly holding on to the puck and turning it over.

 

[cheesymc]

it's easy to attribute the losing streak to being a young team, I'm actually more concerned about the lackluster play of some vets. Specifically Killorn, Fowler, and Terry. Yes, LaCombe is being slotted way over his head, but has the skills to be a good two way D if more appropriately placed. Killorn looks very slow and isn't as physical as I had hoped. Fowler is who he is, a second pairing guy with little or no special teams time on a good team. Terry is lost out there, constantly holding on to the puck and turning it over.

Don't point out Killorn as people on this board loved his 4-year golden parachute signing.

 

[Rybread86]

I think this is all pretty simple:

1) Injuries - we have Z, Lundy and Drysdale out
2) Carlsson - still on 'modified assignment'
3) New Coach Push - Seemingly everytime there is a new coach, we see like a month of elevated play, and then the team starts to flatten out and come back down to their average
4) New players - Guys like Killorn trying to get into a groove. Killer has the additional hardship of not being able to play through camp and the first month or so.
5) Rookies - these guys are going to have a bit more severe ups and downs. Lacombe needs a few games in the press box.

I think everyone got caught up in the Cronin hype train. This roster still isnt great. We can see with a few injuries how shallow the team still is. We are seeing issues that Eakins had to deal with coming back. Those issues arent fixed, they were just hidden by the new coach push.

Thats not to say Eakins should or shouldnt have been fired, but its why I didnt really care if he was or not. This roster isnt where it needs to be to compete night-in and night-out. Cronin is addressing this that Eakins couldnt or didnt in his time, but its going to be a process.

Im actually glad we are seeing this dip. Cronin is getting a lot of good info to work off of and can start to address the issues now that the team isnt producing at their ceiling.

The one thing I really want to see change is their physical play. When they are playing physically, they are more engaged and playing at a much higher level. I get wanting to, needing to, see what McGinn can do now thats hes healthy, but in physical matchups like LA Johnston really need to be in the lineup.

 

[FlyingV09]

it's easy to attribute the losing streak to being a young team, I'm actually more concerned about the lackluster play of some vets. Specifically Killorn, Fowler, and Terry. Yes, LaCombe is being slotted way over his head, but has the skills to be a good two way D if more appropriately placed. Killorn looks very slow and isn't as physical as I had hoped. Fowler is who he is, a second pairing guy with little or no special teams time on a good team. Terry is lost out there, constantly holding on to the puck and turning it over.

An accurate assessment