2023-24 Roster Thread #8: A Cam York State of Mind

[BillDineen]

Looking at the Flyers 2005-2023 CHL and USHL picks, according to my sample WITHOUT hindsight, just pretending it is pre-draft right now? Grouping guys into ~5 categories bases on their stats? This is pretty much the grouping... albeit could divide into even more groups, and did it pretty quickly!:

High upside pick without much risk:
Claude Giroux
Sean Couturier
Ivan Provorov
Nolan Patrick
Joel Farabee
Cam York
Bobby Brink

A decent chance can be top 6/4... and likely to be NHLer:
Steve Downie
Marc-Andre Bourdon
Mark Friedman
Cooper Marody
Travis Konecny
Pascal Laberge
Ronnie Attard (but tbf this is a craaazy small sample of players with his profile, so hard to say)
Tyson Foerster
Cutter Gauthier

Maybe they will be a 3rd liner/bottom pairing guy with outside top 6/4 upside:
Andreas Nodl
Kevin Marshall
Luca Sbisa
Brendan Ranford
Nick Cousins
Scott Laughton
Sam Morin
Nicolas Aube-Kubel
Travis Sanheim
Tanner Laczynski
Wade Allison
Matthew Strome
Isaac Ratcliffe
Morgan Frost
Egor Serdyuk
Zayde Wisdom
Connor McClennon
Ethan Samson
Devin Kaplan
Cole Knuble
Oliver Bonk
Denver Barkey

Longshot to be NHLer, and if they do make it is bottom of line-up (5-10% chance of NHL):
Oskars Bartulis
Mario Kempe
Dave Labrecque
Eric Wellwood
Michael Chaput
Tye McGinn
Marcel Noebels
Colin Suellentrop
Taylor Leier
Tyrell Goulbourne
Radel Fazleev
Samuel Dove-McFalls
Carson Twarynski
Connor Bunnaman
Anthony Salinitri
Wyatt Kalynuk
Maxim Sushko
John St. Ivany
Wyatte Wylie
Gavin Hain
Mason Millman
Elliott Desnoyers
Ty Murchison
Alexis Gendron
Carter Sotheran

Why is this guy being drafted? (pigs can fly, maybe 1/100 to make it):
Josh Beaulieu
John Flatters
Matt Clackson
Garrett Klotz
Zac Rinaldo
Michael Parks
Derek Mathers
David Drake
Hunter McDonald
Matteo Mann

Far too many draft picks on guys in the bottom two groups tbh... guys who barring a miracle have basically no chance of being anything more than a ~35 point forward or a very limited bottom pairing guy.

Hunter McDonald did win the Hockey East Defensive Defenseman of the year award. That is why they love him. I have no idea if that translates at all

Hunter McDonald - Men's Ice Hockey - Northeastern University Athletics

Hunter McDonald (5) Defense - Awards: Hockey East Best Defensive Defenseman (2022-23) Hockey East All-Rookie Team (2022-23) Hockey East Defender of the Week (2x)

nuhuskies.com

 

[FLYguy3911]

And he's a .35 PPG guy in college hockey at nearly 22. They love betting on these types.

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

And he's a .35 PPG guy in college hockey at nearly 22. They love betting on these types.

I just want to check… are we all having an aneurysm over a 6th round pick? Who was the slam dunk selection we passed on to take Hunter?

 

[FLYguy3911]

Would you put Ghost in the middle category?

Using a 10 year window from his freshman season and prior, he had a top 20 scoring season for an u19 defensemen at the college level. He's was in the same bucket as guys like Krug (also undrafted), Shattenkirk, Jake Gardiner, Erik Johnson, etc. He did it at a smaller school in a smaller conference, but that Union team went to the Frozen Four so pretty impressive to find usage on that team given he came in relatively unheralded.

Couple things to point out, it's extremely rare for an undrafted defenseman to play college hockey at 18, let alone produce. No one really does it skipping over junior hockey and going right from prep hockey- at his (lack of) size no less.

I just want to check… are we all having an aneurysm over a 6th round pick? Who was the slam dunk selection we passed on to take Hunter?

Only thing giving anyone an aneurysm is that user name bud. Take a lap.

 

[BritainStix]

Please explain this then…

Because he's not heavy enough duh!!!!

 

[VladDrag]

Because he's not heavy enough duh!!!!

And just for clarity, I agree with you that the reason Foerster hasn't been scratched is that he's playing well off the puck, but obviously so is and was Frost. It's just that Torts has a preconceived notion regarding non-elite smaller offensive forwards are not good defensively, and therefore, he must score to secure his spot. Frost was scratched because Torts didn't think he was good enough to play in the NHL, simple as that. Torts has done it with Zuccarello and Karlsson.

It's the same preconceived notion was used to in the evaluation of Mikhail Vorobyov, David Kase, and now Olle Lycksell.

 

[flyersnorth]

And just for clarity, I agree with you that the reason Foerster hasn't been scratched is that he's playing well off the puck, but obviously so is and was Frost. It's just that Torts has a preconceived notion regarding non-elite smaller offensive forwards are not good defensively, and therefore, he must score to secure his spot. Frost was scratched because Torts didn't think he was good enough to play in the NHL, simple as that. Torts has done it with Zuccarello and Karlsson.

It's the same preconceived notion was used to in the evaluation of Mikhail Vorobyov, David Kase, and now Olle Lycksell.

In the post-game presser last night, Torts said he thought that was one of Frost's best games. The big change he sees is that Frost is attacking and using the middle of the ice more now. Said he was playing more of a perimeter game before.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Who do we see the Flyers acquiring to solidify the playoff lineup?

 

[Cody Webster]

I'm thinking a Pettersson type player. They have plenty of draft picks they can include in any trade, so it shouldn't be too bad

 

[BillDineen]

Am I the only one that wouldn't be surprised if they get another 1rst, they'll use one 1rst as a package to acquire Hanifin with the intention of extending him? Seems like a very Flyers thing to do.

Hanifin/Sanheim
York/Drysdale
Andrea/Zamula Bonk

 

[VladDrag]

In the post-game presser last night, Torts said he thought that was one of Frost's best games. The big change he sees is that Frost is attacking and using the middle of the ice more now. Said he was playing more of a perimeter game before.

Yeah, I saw that. Note it was the last person he spoke about.. He also didn't offer that information up earlier in the presser, where he freely brought up other skaters willingly such as Laughton - He had to be asked about Frost.

I thought this was interesting as well..


When I listened to the presser, I did not hear this part about Frost, but the presser was cut short on YouTube. Bill doesn't just make stuff up, so I'm inclined to believe it was just cut from the youtube version.

 

[BritainStix]

And just for clarity, I agree with you that the reason Foerster hasn't been scratched is that he's playing well off the puck, but obviously so is and was Frost. It's just that Torts has a preconceived notion regarding non-elite smaller offensive forwards are not good defensively, and therefore, he must score to secure his spot. Frost was scratched because Torts didn't think he was good enough to play in the NHL, simple as that. Torts has done it with Zuccarello and Karlsson.

It's the same preconceived notion was used to in the evaluation of Mikhail Vorobyov, David Kase, and now Olle Lycksell.

We all know why Frost was scratched. He doesn't conform to the pump, dump and chase hockey that Torts preaches. He tries things that are sometimes risky because more often than not, it works. Tyson doesn't do that. So he's a "safe" player.

I don't agree with it by the way. Frost is by far my favourite flyer.

 

[Sombastate]

I really want to get a Frost jersey when I go to the stadium series but of course he'll get traded right away

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Just wait until the lemmings start giving Tortorella credit for Frost’s development.

 

[VladDrag]

Just wait until the lemmings start giving Tortorella credit for Frost’s development.

It's already started.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

ASF chalked up the last time he did it to a deflection attempt after a loss in the midst in of a losing streak.

I just don’t think he likes you pal.

 

[wankstifier]

Frost isn't even that small. This shit is so old

 

[Matti Mich]

Using a 10 year window from his freshman season and prior, he had a top 20 scoring season for an u19 defensemen at the college level. He's was in the same bucket as guys like Krug (also undrafted), Shattenkirk, Jake Gardiner, Erik Johnson, etc. He did it at a smaller school in a smaller conference, but that Union team went to the Frozen Four so pretty impressive to find usage on that team given he came in relatively unheralded.

Won a National Championship on Ghost's back

 

[Curufinwe]

Charlie's Halloween take aging like a pumpkin in the sun

Morgan Frost back in the Flyers lineup, but long-term fit questions remain - PHLY Sports

Morgan Frost's 15-day benching finally ended on Monday. But can he prove he needs to be part of the Flyers' future?

allphly.com

Right now, Frost does have a spot as one of the team’s top three centers. But out of the three, Frost’s long-term hold on a job appears the most tenuous. Sean Couturier may not be all the way back yet as a play-driving monster, but he has eight points in nine games thus far and (more importantly) has seven years remaining on a massive $62 million contract that includes a no-movement clause; most likely, Couturier isn’t going anywhere. Noah Cates last season provided similar offensive totals (eight fewer points) while grading out as far better defensively, and as long as Tortorella remains in the mix, Cates isn’t going anywhere.

That leaves Frost as the offense-first center in their mix, except 46 points in 81 games isn’t exactly standout production for a player with little two-way value. Without a further scoring leap, it probably won’t be enough to keep top prospect Cutter Gauthier from taking Frost’s spot down the middle once he signs his entry-level contract and turns pro — which could happen as soon as next spring.

 

[freakydallas13]

Charlie's Halloween take aging like a pumpkin in the sun

Morgan Frost back in the Flyers lineup, but long-term fit questions remain - PHLY Sports

Morgan Frost's 15-day benching finally ended on Monday. But can he prove he needs to be part of the Flyers' future?

allphly.com

The fact he expected Cates to put up similar numbers offensively to last season? Lmao.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Won a National Championship on Ghost's back

Not his freshman year.

2012 NCAA Division I men's ice hockey tournament - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Cody Webster]

ASF chalked up the last time he did it to a deflection attempt after a loss in the midst in of a losing streak.

I just don’t think he likes you pal.

God, I love this. I don't care what anyone says, it's great when Torts does this

 

[renberg]

God, I love this. I don't care what anyone says, it's great when Torts does this

He does this act wherever he goes. Fischler in NY for example. It’s a ploy to keep the attention on him and off of the players. It makes him look like the protector of the team. Kind of a stale trick. Fortunately for him the days of the press being sharp are over. Years ago the press would have scourged him for doing this type of stuff.

 

[Magua]

Anthony SanFilippo is a man who probably gets off to shame and ridicule. He’s having a blast being verbally flagellated by Tortorella, I guarantee it.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Yes TK is good at hockey