2023-24 Roster Thread #7: A shave and a haircut, two bits

[deadhead]

Where are the Flyers getting some top end talent with this master plan?

Coward

Like most teams, they need to hit on someone later in the first round and beyond.
Even TB found Point, Guorde, Verhaeghe (oops, let him go to Florida).

Are they going to land a HOF type? Unlikely. Even if they tanked, you're more likely to end up with JVR, Patrick, Slavofsky, Lafreniere and Kakko than Bedard. And those types you can find later in the first rd. Will Eichel and Nico have as good a career as Giroux?

 

[FlyerNutter]

Like most teams, they need to hit on someone later in the first round and beyond.
Even TB found Point, Guorde, Verhaeghe (oops, let him go to Florida).

Are they going to land a HOF type? Unlikely. Even if they tanked, you're more likely to end up with JVR, Patrick, Slavofsky, Lafreniere and Kakko than Bedard. And those types you can find later in the first rd. Will Eichel and Nico have as good a career as Giroux?

So get lucky, and land on someone in later rounds.

That’s the plan.

 

[Random Forest]

So get lucky, and land on someone in later rounds.

That’s the plan.

You act like it’s some guarantee of success to bottom out and collect your McDavid or MacKinnon or Bedard. Michkov is about as good a start as you can realistically hope to expect, even if you do the full blown tank. He’s not wrong that building a good team requires getting top players outside the top three picks.

 

[FlyerNutter]

You act like it’s some guarantee of success to bottom out and collect your McDavid or MacKinnon or Bedard. Michkov is about as good a start as you can realistically hope to expect, even if you do the full blown tank. He’s not wrong that building a good team requires getting top players outside the top three picks.

It’s not a one year plan, to bottom out to harvest top end talent.

That’s a weird plan, that the Flyers should know well about its potential flaws. Is Chicago rebuilding only for a season? San Jose? Anaheim?

The Flyers are just too arrogant, and too proud to ever fully commit to such a year willingly. If it happens they will live with it, but this organization will never rebuild.

We see that yet again with this plan. What are we running with here in a few years? Matvei and older high mileage versions of TK/Couturier?

I just wanted him to say it that’s all. They hope to luck into someone with a crackhead development/scouting staff - or find some mystical Eichel trade.

There are many ways to build a team, but the arrogance of the country club - and outdated viewpoints have committed this team to doing it the hardest way possible.

What if another team matches their effort level in the playoffs?

* They just lost their franchise goaltender. Along with their second most talented prospect. I’m not sure what more needs to be done to commit to a proper rebuild.*

 

[Beef Invictus]

It’s not a one year plan, to bottom out to harvest top end talent.

That’s a weird plan, that the Flyers should know well about its potential flaws. Is Chicago rebuilding only for a season? San Jose? Anaheim?

The Flyers are just too arrogant, and too proud to ever fully commit to such a year willingly. If it happens they will live with it, but this organization will never rebuild.

We see that yet again with this plan. What are we running with here in a few years? Matvei and older high mileage versions of TK/Couturier?

I just wanted him to say it that’s all. They hope to luck into someone with a crackhead development/scouting staff - or find some mystical Eichel trade.

There are many ways to build a team, but the arrogance of the country club - and outdated viewpoints have committed this team to doing it the hardest way possible.

What if another team matches their effort level in the playoffs?

* They just lost their franchise goaltender. Along with their second most talented prospect. I’m not sure what more needs to be done to commit to a proper rebuild.*

The time was last summer to sell everything for every pick and prospect you could get, suffer through whatever comes this year, reap the increased chances of draft success, and have the entire roster on the same page for Michkov's career.


The Flyers are paid professionals though, so how dare I question them! I trust their vision. Whatever it is, it will work. Truly. I mean, how can it possibly fail again? It's gotta work sometime.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

The time was last summer to sell everything for every pick and prospect you could get, suffer through whatever comes this year, reap the increased chances of draft success, and have the entire roster on the same page for Michkov's career.


The Flyers are paid professionals though, so how dare I question them! I trust their vision. Whatever it is, it will work. Truly. I mean, how can it possibly fail again? It's gotta work sometime.

I honestly believe that's their plan. They think that they're owed one.

 

[FlyerNutter]

The time was last summer to sell everything for every pick and prospect you could get, suffer through whatever comes this year, reap the increased chances of draft success, and have the entire roster on the same page for Michkov's career.


The Flyers are paid professionals though, so how dare I question them! I trust their vision. Whatever it is, it will work. Truly. I mean, how can it possibly fail again? It's gotta work sometime.

They have been selling us on the same philosophical plan of building a team for a decade.

I mean. They once traded for Timonen, and Pronger wanted to sign here.

It can be done again!

Comcast collapsed to the demands of the alumni. Saw they were getting heat, and decided to give even more control to the very men who continue to keep us in this mess. Thank goodness for the nice little half season this year though.

Short sighted fools.

 

[Beef Invictus]

They have been selling us on the same philosophical plan of building a team for a decade.

I mean. They once traded for Timonen, and Pronger wanted to sign here.

It can be done again!

Comcast collapsed to the demands of the alumni. Saw they were getting heat, and decided to give even more control to the very men who continue to keep us in this mess. Thank goodness for the nice little half season this year though.

Short sighted fools.

But think about how untouchably intangible everything must be

 

[Flyerfan4life]

The time was last summer to sell everything for every pick and prospect you could get, suffer through whatever comes this year, reap the increased chances of draft success, and have the entire roster on the same page for Michkov's career.


The Flyers are paid professionals though, so how dare I question them! I trust their vision. Whatever it is, it will work. Truly. I mean, how can it possibly fail again? It's gotta work sometime.

50 years cupless says otherwise..

but stay positive, hahah

 

[Beef Invictus]

50 years cupless says otherwise..

but stay positive, hahah

Thank you, I will.

Think about how good it will feel after 75 years when they win!

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Thank you, I will.

Think about how good it will feel after 75 years when they win!

ill be dust by then..

so it would figure.

 

[ajgoal]

Thank you, I will.

Think about how good it will feel after another 75 years when they win!

ftfy. I don't think I'll live another 75 years.

 

[deadhead]

Who were they going to trade away with real value?
They traded Provorov, they tried to trade Sanheim.
The only other player was TK.
Frost and Tippett had little value last summer. Gonna trade 24 year old players for 2nd rd picks?
You're going to trade 23 year old Farabee, and sell low in a rebuild? 21 year old York?

And they'd land a few late round 1sts and a couple 2nds.
They'd still probably end up as the 4th or 5th worst team, lose the lottery, and end up with another Gauthier.

This kind of tank means committing to totally sucking for five years, hoping to get lucky in both the lottery (end up with #1) and having a franchise player available that season.

 

[freakydallas13]

Who were they going to trade away with real value?
They traded Provorov, they tried to trade Sanheim.
The only other player was TK.
Frost and Tippett had little value last summer. Gonna trade 24 year old players for 2nd rd picks?
You're going to trade 23 year old Farabee, and sell low in a rebuild? 21 year old York?

And they'd land a few late round 1sts and a couple 2nds.
They'd still probably end up as the 4th or 5th worst team, lose the lottery, and end up with another Gauthier.

This kind of tank means committing to totally sucking for five years, hoping to get lucky in both the lottery (end up with #1) and having a franchise player available that season.

Thank god didn't they didn't tank and suck for 5 years, that would have been awful. Can you imagine watching 5 years of this team being bad? I can't. The last 12 years have been so much better.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Who were they going to trade away with real value?
They traded Provorov, they tried to trade Sanheim.
The only other player was TK.
Frost and Tippett had little value last summer. Gonna trade 24 year old players for 2nd rd picks?
You're going to trade 23 year old Farabee, and sell low in a rebuild? 21 year old York?

And they'd land a few late round 1sts and a couple 2nds.
They'd still probably end up as the 4th or 5th worst team, lose the lottery, and end up with another Gauthier.

This kind of tank means committing to totally sucking for five years, hoping to get lucky in both the lottery (end up with #1) and having a franchise player available that season.

Maybe if they had a successful plan to build a contender, instead of putting more effort into alumni nights - guys like Gauthier wouldn’t run.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Laughton was desired for a 1st. Very valuable! Unlikely to ever get that back now.

The only way you don't believe that rumor is true is if you've decided that one of the most reliable sources in the game is actually Eklund-level.

 

[Random Forest]

Had the team been nuked in, say, 2018, to do a “proper rebuild”, it’s every bit as possible they end up with Kakko, Lafreniere, Beniers, and Slafkovsky as it is they end up with J. Hughes, Stutzle, Power, and Nemec.

I’m not saying the nuclear option doesn’t work. The nuclear option does work for some teams, but it requires winning the lottery in the right years to get your MacKinnon or Bedard, and just as importantly, it also means losing the lottery in the right years to get your Makar or Sanderson or Stutzle. Colorado probably doesn’t win their Cup if they had kept their draft order in 2017 after finishing last. Losing the lottery to get Makar was an immense stroke of luck.

 

[deadhead]

We're talking so bad no one here would bother to watch the roster of castoffs they'd throw out there for years. And even then, there's no guarantee that all that suffering will be worthwhile, what if Edmonton doesn't land McDavid, ten years of tanking would have been an exercise in futility, and they still haven't become a dominant team. Look at Buffalo, look at Toronto with a number of elite scorers. If you have to watch an awful product for five years to lose in the 1st rd for 5 years before losing in the 2nd rd . . .

Tanking makes the most sense at the lend of a long competitive run, when you have a bunch of veterans with one year left on their deals and you decide the gig is up, clear them out for picks instead of extending them, and naturally sucking. The Flyers didn't have enough trade bait to build up a stockpile of picks to go along with a few high picks you'd get from tanking. They neither went "all in" or rebuilt.

 

[LegionOfGloom]

Had the team been nuked in, say, 2018, to do a “proper rebuild”, it’s every bit as possible they end up with Kakko, Lafreniere, Beniers, and Slafkovsky as it is they end up with J. Hughes, Stutzle, Power, and Nemec.

I’m not saying the nuclear option doesn’t work. The nuclear option does work for some teams, but it requires winning the lottery in the right years to get your MacKinnon or Bedard, and just as importantly, it also means losing the lottery in the right years to get your Makar or Sanderson or Stutzle.

No one is saying that tanking is guaranteed to work. But doing what they've been doing for the past 15 years is guaranteed to fail.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Had the team been nuked in, say, 2018, to do a “proper rebuild”, it’s every bit as possible they end up with Kakko, Lafreniere, Beniers, and Slafkovsky as it is they end up with J. Hughes, Stutzle, Power, and Nemec.

I’m not saying the nuclear option doesn’t work. The nuclear option does work for some teams, but it requires winning the lottery in the right years to get your MacKinnon or Bedard, and just as importantly, it also means losing the lottery in the right years to get your Makar or Sanderson or Stutzle.

So, why even try? I agree! The Flyers path which has never produced success is the best path. It's the most honest path. And that's what is most important, not winning...being true to yourself and your values. I believe in this. I believe in believing in oneself.

 

[Beef Invictus]

We're talking so bad no one here would bother to watch the roster of castoffs they'd throw out there for years. And even then, there's no guarantee that all that suffering will be worthwhile, what if Edmonton doesn't land McDavid, ten years of tanking would have been an exercise in futility, and they still haven't become a dominant team. Look at Buffalo, look at Toronto with a number of elite scorers. If you have to watch an awful product for five years to lose in the 1st rd for 5 years before losing in the 2nd rd . . .

Tanking makes the most sense at the lend of a long competitive run, when you have a bunch of veterans with one year left on their deals and you decide the gig is up, clear them out for picks instead of extending them, and naturally sucking. The Flyers didn't have enough trade bait to build up a stockpile of picks to go along with a few high picks you'd get from tanking. They neither went "all in" or rebuilt.

Edmonton did this thing where they tanked while keeping an incompetent horde of cronies in charge.


Now, the Flyers front office is even more inbred and historically also more incompetent; but that's good! Maybe Edmonton's problem was that they didn't commit to the bit fully enough!

 

[Random Forest]

So, why even try? I agree! The Flyers path which has never produced success is the best path. It's the most honest path. And that's what is most important, not winning...being true to yourself and your values. I believe in this. I believe in believing in oneself.

You make it really hard to believe you’re able to read sometimes.

No one is saying that tanking is guaranteed to work. But doing what they've been doing for the past 15 years is guaranteed to fail.

If you read any of that as an endorsement of “what they’ve been doing the past 15 years”, try reading it again.

 

[FlyerNutter]

We're talking so bad no one here would bother to watch the roster of castoffs they'd throw out there for years. And even then, there's no guarantee that all that suffering will be worthwhile, what if Edmonton doesn't land McDavid, ten years of tanking would have been an exercise in futility, and they still haven't become a dominant team. Look at Buffalo, look at Toronto with a number of elite scorers. If you have to watch an awful product for five years to lose in the 1st rd for 5 years before losing in the 2nd rd . . .

Tanking makes the most sense at the lend of a long competitive run, when you have a bunch of veterans with one year left on their deals and you decide the gig is up, clear them out for picks instead of extending them, and naturally sucking. The Flyers didn't have enough trade bait to build up a stockpile of picks to go along with a few high picks you'd get from tanking. They neither went "all in" or rebuilt.

The Flyers aren’t even rebuilding.

They traded 2 guys that wanted out in Hayes/Provorov.

This is them being lazy, sitting on their fat fed asses as usual. Trotting up to happily pick whenever Gary announces their names.

Explain to me how the team is being proactive toward acquiring assets. Moving guys like Braun or Walker is something we should celebrate?

It just comes to light when short sighted celebrations give a mirage of competency. They lost their most talented player in Carter Hart. Gauthier bailed on the organization. The signs to rebuild are flashing constantly, but did you hear Mike Richards played in the alumni game?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I really don’t want to have the dopey tanking conversation yet again, but I don’t think it’s reasonable to say no one here would watch a tanking Flyers team. This a place for hardcores. Many less people of the general public will watch, yes. But I know how many people here watched and enjoyed Process Sixers games. We, the idiots, would watch.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You make it really hard to believe you’re able to read sometimes.


If you read any of that as an endorsement of “what they’ve been doing the past 15 years”, try reading it again.

Likewise! What with nobody arguing whatever it is you're trying to refute!