2023-24 Roster Thread #7: A shave and a haircut, two bits

[FlyerNutter]

No, this goes back to before Briere was hired and Torts came out and said this team was 4-5 years away (i.e. as long or longer than his contract). When Briere was hired that spring, he made it clear he was on board with Torts in that a rebuild was required, they weren't going to tank, but they were going to focus on adding young assets.

The problem was CF and Scott, the G trade should have been followed by trades of Sanheim and Risto, no TDA deal, etc. But Scott would never sign off on a rebuild and CF knew a rebuild meant he was gone.

Briere traded Provorov and dumped Hayes, TDA, Hodgson and Connauton, let Braun, Lemieux, Willman walk, clearing more contract slots. Only additions were Poehling (24), Hathaway (2yr deal), and Staal (1yr deal).

Added 1st, (2) 2nds, 5th, 6th rd picks, Grans (21), Rizzo (22), Walker (29), Peterson (29).
Walker is a trade asset, Peterson simply a salary dump.

Where are the Flyers getting some high end talent from?

Curious on this master plan

 

[deadhead]

Panarin was a nice addition, but Rangers still aren't a top team, 16th in xGF% (Flyers are 12th), good STs, and Quick has compensated for Shesterkin having an off season after he carried them for two seasons.

Question is whether their window is closing if Shesterkin was worn down by overuse:
Panarin (32), Trocheck (30), Zibanejad (30), Kreider (32), Wheeler (37), Vesey (30) top 9 forwards
Goodrow (30), Bonino (35), Brodzinski (30) on 4th line

Chytil injured, Lafraneire (22) has improved to 2nd line level, Kakko (22) looks like a flop, Cuylle (21) bottom six, not much else.

Nice core of D, Fox (25), Miller (24), Trouba (29), Lindgren (25), Schneider (22).

 

[deadhead]

Not that we didn't know this already, but our forwards are pretty slow.

Yeah, but check out some of the "slow" guys:
Stone #407
Paveliski #406
Benson #405
Marschessault #404
Couts #380
Kopitar #378
Boeser #377
Marner #373
Thomas #348
Boldy #329

Tells me what's being measured is style of play as much as "speed."
Need to combine this data with top speed data, to see who is slow v who "plays slow."

 

[freakydallas13]

It's nice to see this team has a mix of old important players (Couts) and young players (Foerster/Brink/Cates) on the slowest players in the league list.

Prized acquisition Nicky Fists leading the charge.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

It's nice to see this team has a mix of old important players (Couts) and young players (Foerster/Brink/Cates) on the slowest players in the league list.

Prized acquisition Nicky Fists leading the charge.

#culture....

 

[Magua]

Damn, Poehling-NAK would be the fastest 4th line in the league. Oh well.

Tells me what's being measured is style of play as much as "speed."
Need to combine this data with top speed data, to see who is slow v who "plays slow."

Yes, but even "plays slow" feels like a drastic oversimplification. The real thing I look for, especially in prospects, is the ability to create space. Pure speed is one way, and usually not even the most important way, let alone for non-rush offense. It's not a negative to be fast, and it's not a positive to be slow -- that's how I'd phrase it.

 

[Strawberry Fields]

Damn, Poehling-NAK would be the fastest 4th line in the league. Oh well.



Yes, but even "plays slow" feels like a drastic oversimplification. The real thing I look for, especially in prospects, is the ability to create space. Pure speed is one way, and usually not even the most important way.

I was witness for those glorious four-ish weeks.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

I was witness for those glorious four-ish weeks.
View attachment 812310

not even a NHL player..

man that post aged well, hahahahah

 

[VladDrag]

not even a NHL player..

man that post aged well, hahahahah

 

[Strawberry Fields]

not even a NHL player..

man that post aged well, hahahahah

In fairness the Caps called him up in early November and he hasn't been down since.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I am wondering if the decision to rebuild and call it that publically was related to knowing the Hart situation was coming down the pipeline? Would they have been buyers at this deadline if Hart was never involved?

The main hangup with this is that they've yet to actually rebuild. Not in any way that will work.

But I think that's really good. It's very bold of them to take the hardest path every time. It builds intangibles.

 

[deadhead]

Damn, Poehling-NAK would be the fastest 4th line in the league. Oh well.



Yes, but even "plays slow" feels like a drastic oversimplification. The real thing I look for, especially in prospects, is the ability to create space. Pure speed is one way, and usually not even the most important way, let alone for non-rush offense. It's not a negative to be fast, and it's not a positive to be slow -- that's how I'd phrase it.

I'm thinking of guys like Couts and Stone who lack speed, but also don't skate as fast as they can b/'c they have high IQ and anticipate the play so they don't have to turn on the jets to chase the play.

Low IQ and lack of speed is a bad combination that usually ends up in the AHL.

 

[captainpaxil]

With hart out the flyers have no more negotiating to do . Time to start selling

 

[Cody Webster]

Wrong thread

 

[TheKingPin]

I forget it was either Briere’s press conference or Jones’ podcast but they said they would have 2-3 mid to late maybe earlier firsts. Unless they see Walker and or Seeler returning a 1st bc people do pay over for D, that should mean Laughton or TK. I think they trade Laughton finally. He’s about to be 30. There’s little reason to keep him.

 

[wasup]

When it comes to a lot of players when they get the heck out of the Philly program they start doing a lot better . NAK is playing full time NHL , Stolarz full time , Lyon full time , Bellows is lighting up the Marlies , Ratcliffe doing better , Vorobyev in KHL doing better .

Philly development system does nothing but focuses on Defensive play and guys like Brooks who have produced well in the AHL on other teams come here and their production goes to shit . Marodys stats look good but take him off the PP and he looks like shit . He has the worst + - on the team and by quite a ways . I usually dont put much into + - but when it is really bad compared to most others it can be telling .

Guys like Brink Allison need to get the heck out of here cause all Philly is doing is trying to change their game . Frost need to get out of here as well . They dont focus on what the player does well and then try to tweek it a bit . It is there way or get the F out of here way . Gotta love it , ffs .

 

[deadhead]

Briere is a realist, he has little in the pipeline in the near future, Laczynski and Allison will be 27 next year, that ship has sailed. Tuomaala has improved but is probably another year away, same with Desnoyers and Avon. Andrae isn't NHL ready yet, Attard is still working on his defense, both would compete for #6/#7 roles next year. Samson and Grans need more seasoning in the AHL.

Rizzo might come out, Brodzinski is an AHL player, Barkey, Sotheran will probably stay in the CHL, Bonk is more likely to make the jump but that will depend on TC, Bump and Kaplan need more time in college, Gendron will be at LHV. Kolosov will probably come over and start for LHV.

Brink taking a starting job is probably the biggest potential upgrade next season, along with Lycksell and maybe Andrae. A few more players may arrive in the summer of 2025, primarily Bonk. The pipeline will be full by 2025-26 with two deep drafts the next two summers, but most of those players won't have an impact until 2027 or later.

So it's hard to imagine Briere doing anything but accumulate assets the next two years, waiting for Michkov, Bonk and a couple 1st rd picks from this summer (and maybe a Barkey, etc.) to fill out the roster in 2026-27 and 2027-28.

 

[VladDrag]

I'm thinking of guys like Couts and Stone who lack speed, but also don't skate as fast as they can b/'c they have high IQ and anticipate the play so they don't have to turn on the jets to chase the play.

Low IQ and lack of speed is a bad combination that usually ends up in the AHL.

While I typically agree, Nic Deslauriers has played in 95% of all flyers games over the last 2 seasons.

 

[deadhead]

While I typically agree, Nic Deslauriers has played in 95% of all flyers games over the last 2 seasons.

His minutes have steadily declined. I think he reflects the lack of depth in the organization that's NHL ready. Lycksell wasn't ready last season, you can see the difference in his play the last couple games. Brink really hit the wall the last month and needs some time in the AHL. The rest of LHV isn't ready for prime time.

Heck, they added Hathaway, kept Laughton, signed Poehling and have still struggled to field 12 forwards this season.

You usually need 14-15 forwards to get through a season, between injuries and one or two kids regressing. Look around the league, lots of prospects are on the NHL/AHL shuttle the first couple years of their career before they settle into starting jobs (or become AHL lifers like Bellows).

 

[Curufinwe]

Just looked at the February schedule and they could be on a 10 game losing streak going into the outdoor game against the Devils.

at Fla
Win
Sea
Arz
at Tor
v NJ
at Chi
NYR
at Pit
TB

 

[VladDrag]

His minutes have steadily declined. I think he reflects the lack of depth in the organization that's NHL ready. Lycksell wasn't ready last season, you can see the difference in his play the last couple games. Brink really hit the wall the last month and needs some time in the AHL. The rest of LHV isn't ready for prime time.

Heck, they added Hathaway, kept Laughton, signed Poehling and have still struggled to field 12 forwards this season.

You usually need 14-15 forwards to get through a season, between injuries and one or two kids regressing. Look around the league, lots of prospects are on the NHL/AHL shuttle the first couple years of their career before they settle into starting jobs (or become AHL lifers like Bellows).

I think you know it was a tongue and cheek comment.

But, why are they playing Nic D 5min a night, when the could be giving Brink that roster spot and ~10-12 mins a night? Even if I agree his play slipped over the last 8-10 games, that's kind of expected. He's still pacing for 38 points over 82 games, which is great for his first season being a diminutive forward who is still getting used to the NHL. Playing Nic D 5 mins a night, while Brink is in AHL benefits no one.

I don't agree that Lycksell is a completely different player than he was last season. I thought he played well enough to be given a real look last year. And a real look isn't 8 games. You can't convince me he wasn't a better option between him, MacEwen, Brown, Bellows, Willman, Lemieux because you would have at least learned something about him.

 

[Random Forest]

Yeah, but check out some of the "slow" guys:
Stone #407
Paveliski #406
Benson #405
Marschessault #404
Couts #380
Kopitar #378
Boeser #377
Marner #373
Thomas #348
Boldy #329

Tells me what's being measured is style of play as much as "speed."
Need to combine this data with top speed data, to see who is slow v who "plays slow."

Damn, Poehling-NAK would be the fastest 4th line in the league. Oh well.



Yes, but even "plays slow" feels like a drastic oversimplification. The real thing I look for, especially in prospects, is the ability to create space. Pure speed is one way, and usually not even the most important way, let alone for non-rush offense. It's not a negative to be fast, and it's not a positive to be slow -- that's how I'd phrase it.

There’s also clearly a survivorship effect going on in the slowest list. If you’re a “slow” player who has made it, chances are you have other elite skills compensating.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

I think you know it was a tongue and cheek comment.

But, why are they playing Nic D 5min a night, when the could be giving Brink that roster spot and ~10-12 mins a night? Even if I agree his play slipped over the last 8-10 games, that's kind of expected. He's still pacing for 38 points over 82 games, which is great for his first season being a diminutive forward who is still getting used to the NHL. Playing Nic D 5 mins a night, while Brink is in AHL benefits no one.

I don't agree that Lycksell is a completely different player than he was last season. I thought he played well enough to be given a real look last year. And a real look isn't 8 games. You can't convince me he wasn't a better option between him, MacEwen, Brown, Bellows, Willman, Lemieux because you would have at least learned something about him.

Cause they actually believe that face punching and whatever other BS intangible he brings (works hard, great attitude, professional, good locker room guy just to name a few) are valuable to the line up. They actually believe that. I want to really impress upon you the fact that the Flyers management staff actually believe that Nic D is a valuable member of the team, and no amount of fancy stat garbage or watching him do absolutely nothing on the ice will change their mind

 

[deadhead]

I think you know it was a tongue and cheek comment.

But, why are they playing Nic D 5min a night, when the could be giving Brink that roster spot and ~10-12 mins a night? Even if I agree his play slipped over the last 8-10 games, that's kind of expected. He's still pacing for 38 points over 82 games, which is great for his first season being a diminutive forward who is still getting used to the NHL. Playing Nic D 5 mins a night, while Brink is in AHL benefits no one.

I don't agree that Lycksell is a completely different player than he was last season. I thought he played well enough to be given a real look last year. And a real look isn't 8 games. You can't convince me he wasn't a better option between him, MacEwen, Brown, Bellows, Willman, Lemieux because you would have at least learned something about him.

Brink's play didn't "slip", it collapsed, xGF 35% his last fifteen games, that Deslaurier's territory!

Watching the AHL, it's a good place for someone like Brink to work on his game with no pressure, the difference between the AHL and NHL is less about speed (for example, players like Avon and Tuomaala have plus NHL speed) than skill, experience and IQ. So a young player making the transition from college or the CHL gets a taste of NHL physical play and smaller windows. Brink needs to get stronger and work on his skating and his off the puck play. I expect him to start next season, but right now the AHL is a better place for him. Lots of players spend a couple years going up and down before they win a starting job, it's not just a "Flyers" thing. He lost half a season of development last year due to injury and it shows.

MacEwen (22g), Brown (11g), Willman (12g), Lemieux (21g) are all getting NHL time this season, three with playoff teams. However, they make no sense for a rebuilding team except as placeholders.

Lycksell was tentative last year, maybe he was intimidated, but I think his real issue was he was a classic tweener, not good enough offensively for a top 9 role, not physical enough to play a two way game. Watching him so far, he looks stronger and more assertive, he's not skilled enough to get by with a finesse game, he needs to be able to play in dirty areas and do more than make pretty plays.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Brink's play didn't "slip", it collapsed, xGF 35% his last fifteen games, that Deslaurier's territory!

Watching the AHL, it's a good place for someone like Brink to work on his game with no pressure, the difference between the AHL and NHL is less about speed (for example, players like Avon and Tuomaala have plus NHL speed) than skill, experience and IQ. So a young player making the transition from college or the CHL gets a taste of NHL physical play and smaller windows. Brink needs to get stronger and work on his skating and his off the puck play. I expect him to start next season, but right now the AHL is a better place for him. Lots of players spend a couple years going up and down before they win a starting job, it's not just a "Flyers" thing. He lost half a season of development last year due to injury and it shows.

MacEwen (22g), Brown (11g), Willman (12g), Lemieux (21g) are all getting NHL time this season, three with playoff teams. However, they make no sense for a rebuilding team except as placeholders.

Lycksell was tentative last year, maybe he was intimidated, but I think his real issue was he was a classic tweener, not good enough offensively for a top 9 role, not physical enough to play a two way game. Watching him so far, he looks stronger and more assertive, he's not skilled enough to get by with a finesse game, he needs to be able to play in dirty areas and do more than make pretty plays.

Where are the Flyers getting some top end talent with this master plan?

Coward