2023-24 Roster Thread #7: A shave and a haircut, two bits

[Hollywood Cannon]

I've been BEGGING for them to have a plan for years. The reason many of us haven't been watching nearly as much is because the organization has been aimless. If they sat down and gave us a bunch of slop but with an actual goal in mind many of us would eat it up. It would be infinitely more interesting than what they've trotted out.

Instead we get the Deslauriers' and Staal's of the world on repeat.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I really don’t want to have the dopey tanking conversation yet again, but I don’t think it’s reasonable to say no one here would watch a tanking Flyers team. This a place for hardcores. Many less people of the general public will watch, yes. But I know how many people here watched and enjoyed Process Sixers games. We, the idiots, would watch.

I for one would like to know how in the living, breathing entirety of f*** a tanking team could be worse to watch than what we have been barfing over for the past 14 years.

 

[ponder719]

I for one would like to know how in the living, breathing entirety of f*** a tanking team could be worse to watch than what we have been barfing over for the past 14 years.

I mean, the Donald Sterling Clippers did exist.

 

[deadhead]

I mean, the Donald Sterling Clippers did exist.

If a team falls in the forest and no one is there to watch . . .

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Donald Sterling

Why have you made me remember this name? “Sir, the question was, is this your handwriting?” *shudder*

For those not familiar, NSFW language warning:

Spoiler

 

[usahockey22flyers]

So get lucky, and land on someone in later rounds.

That’s the plan.

Yup I think that is the plan. And hope Farabee, Foerster, Brink, York, and maybe an Andrae hit their ceilings. Obviously they need Michkov to be a slam dunk too, Drysdale same thing.

Then they are definitely praying the cap finally semi-explodes, with the hopes of either finding an Eichel level impact player via trade or free agency.

I think a lot of fans (including myself) would feel better if they had one more top 5ish pick. One more would be great.

 

[LegionOfGloom]

You make it really hard to believe you’re able to read sometimes.


If you read any of that as an endorsement of “what they’ve been doing the past 15 years”, try reading it again.

Relax tough guy.

 

[deadhead]

Yup I think that is the plan. And hope Farabee, Foerster, Brink, York, and maybe an Andrae hit their ceilings. Obviously they need Michkov to be a slam dunk too, Drysdale same thing.

Then they are definitely praying the cap finally semi-explodes, with the hopes of either finding an Eichel level impact player via trade or free agency.

I think a lot of fans (including myself) would feel better if they had one more top 5ish pick. One more would be great.

I dunno. They've drafted JVR, Patrick, Provorov and Gauthier in the top 7, Farabee, Sanheim and York in the teens, Giroux, TK, and Foerster in the 20s.
I'd say given their track record, accumulate more late first round picks.

 

[deadhead]

I've been BEGGING for them to have a plan for years. The reason many of us haven't been watching nearly as much is because the organization has been aimless. If they sat down and gave us a bunch of slop but with an actual goal in mind many of us would eat it up. It would be infinitely more interesting than what they've trotted out.

Instead we get the Deslauriers' and Staal's of the world on repeat.

I thought I saw Staal's picture on a cereal box, "if you see this player, please notify . . . "

 

[Flyerfan4life]

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LOL... these idiots are gunna resign him in the end..

 

[deadhead]

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LOL... these idiots are gunna resign him in the end..

Nah. Why would Briere bid against himself five weeks from the TDL? Of course he's holding out for a 1st rd pick, he's not going to get it, but he may get someone to sweeten a deal, a late 2nd, are you kidding? Ok, a 2nd plus . . . .

Fletcher is long gone. Briere is a competitor, he wants to win trades, win everything.

 

[Cody Webster]

Brink's play didn't "slip", it collapsed, xGF 35% his last fifteen games, that Deslaurier's territory!

Watching the AHL, it's a good place for someone like Brink to work on his game with no pressure, the difference between the AHL and NHL is less about speed (for example, players like Avon and Tuomaala have plus NHL speed) than skill, experience and IQ. So a young player making the transition from college or the CHL gets a taste of NHL physical play and smaller windows. Brink needs to get stronger and work on his skating and his off the puck play. I expect him to start next season, but right now the AHL is a better place for him. Lots of players spend a couple years going up and down before they win a starting job, it's not just a "Flyers" thing. He lost half a season of development last year due to injury and it shows.

MacEwen (22g), Brown (11g), Willman (12g), Lemieux (21g) are all getting NHL time this season, three with playoff teams. However, they make no sense for a rebuilding team except as placeholders.

Lycksell was tentative last year, maybe he was intimidated, but I think his real issue was he was a classic tweener, not good enough offensively for a top 9 role, not physical enough to play a two way game. Watching him so far, he looks stronger and more assertive, he's not skilled enough to get by with a finesse game, he needs to be able to play in dirty areas and do more than make pretty plays.

What pressure do they have here? This team is rebuilding, remember. There shouldn't be any pressure

 

[freakydallas13]

Find someone who looks at you the way contrarians look at this franchise.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Do you need to tank to build a proper contender? No. There are plenty of dumb decision makers left in this sport to take advantage of and add talent and surplus value many different ways. It does require lots of shrewd moves (and luck) but it can be done.

The reason most fans want their teams to tank is because it gives the decision makers they don't trust to make the necessary shrewd moves to build a contender the best odds at building a contender. It's also more fun to follow top end young players and to have hope in the future. At the end of the day if fans can't watch a contender, they want to have hope for the future. As it stands right now, there isn't much to hope on here outside of Michkov and maybe a few unexpected developments, both at the player level and management level.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

Do you need to tank to build a proper contender? No. There are plenty of dumb decision makers left in this sport to take advantage of and add talent and surplus value many different ways. It does require lots of shrewd moves (and luck) but it can be done.

The reason most fans want their teams to tank is because it gives the decision makers, they don't trust to make the necessary shrewd moves to build a contender, the best odds at building a contender. It's also more fun to follow top end young players and to have hope in the future. At the end of the day if fans can't watch a contender, they want to have hope for the future. As it stands right now, there isn't much to hope on here outside of Michkov and maybe a few unexpected developments, both at the player level and management level.

Yea but Flyers have culture so. Have you seen the Farg? So many more people are watching this mediocrity now

 

[FlyerNutter]

You do need to tank.

If you’re the Flyers. You damn well do.

The men that make up this team aren’t competent enough to do it any differently.

 

[TheKingPin]

I’m

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LOL... these idiots are gunna resign him in the end..

A 1st is a big ask for Walker.

 

[Magua]

Tippett and Bonk is enough for me. Let's not be greedy.

 

[deadhead]

Do you need to tank to build a proper contender? No. There are plenty of dumb decision makers left in this sport to take advantage of and add talent and surplus value many different ways. It does require lots of shrewd moves (and luck) but it can be done.

The reason most fans want their teams to tank is because it gives the decision makers they don't trust to make the necessary shrewd moves to build a contender the best odds at building a contender. It's also more fun to follow top end young players and to have hope in the future. At the end of the day if fans can't watch a contender, they want to have hope for the future. As it stands right now, there isn't much to hope on here outside of Michkov and maybe a few unexpected developments, both at the player level and management level.

If your management is too dumb to make shrewd moves to rebuild without tanking, what makes you think they won't screw up the tank?

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

One thing that always makes me scratch my head with the tanking debate, is how people who oppose it often say you're hoping for luck if you want to tank. Does it not take  more luck to hit on lower 1st rd, later round picks?

Maybe it's me, but I'm always hoping for luck, regardless of the situation. That's not saying that's the whole plan by any means, just that I want to maximize my chances of favorable outcomes.

Reality is, even the best run orgs in sports need some luck to win a championship. Random chance is just that. It's spread around evenly. How you take advantage of your "luck" can vary a great deal, however. I'd rather give myself more chances to get "lucky" than less. But what do I know

 

[freakydallas13]

If your management is too dumb to make shrewd moves to rebuild without tanking, what makes you think they won't screw up the tank?

Because even if you're incompetent, you're more likely to get star players out of the top 5 spots in a draft than you are picking between 15 and 25 every year?

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

Because even if you're incompetent, you're more likely to get star players out of the top 5 spots in a draft than you are picking between 15 and 25 every year?

No. Sorry, that makes too much sense. Let me explain.

 

[deadhead]

Because even if you're incompetent, you're more likely to get star players out of the top 5 spots in a draft than you are picking between 15 and 25 every year?

Problem is to tank, you pretty much have to strip your organization of proven talent, and hope the guys you draft are as good as the guys you dumped. That's fine when you're at the end of the run and you dump 3 or 4 stars at the TDL, garner a bunch of picks, suck for 2-3 years while you clear out the cap - you're dumping 30+ year old guys with whom you're not going to win anyway.

The problem for the Flyers is to tank they'd have to dump TK, Farabee, Sanheim, York, etc., and there's no guarantee they'd end up with as good of players - they could end up with a couple stars and a thin roster around them. The time to tank was after the Carter/Richards trades, they had a bunch of veterans near the end they could have moved, and had a core of young players and could have added some high draft picks.

Same in 2018, trade Simmonds, Voracek, Giroux, etc. before their value plummeted, moving out 30 year old veterans when it was obvious the team had peaked.

 

[freakydallas13]

Problem is to tank, you pretty much have to strip your organization of proven talent, and hope the guys you draft are as good as the guys you dumped. That's fine when you're at the end of the run and you dump 3 or 4 stars at the TDL, garner a bunch of picks, suck for 2-3 years while you clear out the cap - you're dumping 30+ year old guys with whom you're not going to win anyway.

The problem for the Flyers is to tank they'd have to dump TK, Farabee, Sanheim, York, etc., and there's no guarantee they'd end up with as good of players - they could end up with a couple stars and a thin roster around them. The time to tank was after the Carter/Richards trades, they had a bunch of veterans near the end they could have moved, and had a core of young players and could have added some high draft picks.

Same in 2018, trade Simmonds, Voracek, Giroux, etc. before their value plummeted, moving out 30 year old veterans when it was obvious the team had peaked.

You dump guys that don't fit your rebuilding timeline, no one is saying trade literally every single roster player for pennies.

Stop making straw man arguments, this isn't difficult.

I guess the problem isn't "if you don't have faith in management to make shrewd moves, why would you trust them to make the right draft picks" like you said it was. Imagine that.

 

[captainpaxil]

They missed the chance to sell sanheim but tk is still an option. You have to have valuable players to get assets to rebuild with which Fletcher missed