2023-24 Roster Thread 4: September is National Bourbon Heritage Month

[Flyerfan4life]

Weird how every problem this team has faced for 40 years is the fault of players and not the common denominators in decision making.

#Flyers hockey baby....

 

[blackjackmulligan]

I think the "Ivan trap" is more about the player overestimating his skill set and resisting coaching.
Ivan decided he was a premier offensive defenseman after his 17 goal season and gradually allowed his defense to erode, only to find out he was a mediocre offensive defenseman.
I think he'll rebound in CBJ as a 2nd pair D-man who is expected to play good defense.

York is smarter than Provorov, not as physically skilled, but more efficient, sometimes "less is more."
I'm not worried about him, if he has a fault, he's too conservative on offense, but experience should give him more confidence when to take chances.

Sanheim is another example of a player who hasn't been able to translate physical skill into production.
Sanheim is an elite player in the neutral zone, but meh in the D-zone and can't finish in the O-zone.
He won't get stronger or improve his lateral agility, but more focus on positioning and less confidence in his physical skills would help on defense, and less puck hogging (and better passing) could improve him in the O-zone.

Risto is again an example of a physically talented D-man who was badly coached, and became overconfident in his physical skills instead of developing a fundamentally sound game. He lacks the puck handling and skating skills to be a play driver, but his size and mobility could make him a good defensive defenseman if he continues to focus on that side of his game, and play within his limitations on offense.

I don't care if Bonk is a dynamic offensive force, at #22 I'll be happy if he fills out and is a smart, efficient D-man who consistently makes the right play.

Niskanen didn't wow with his skill set, he just made the right play. Kimmo was nothing special physically, he just was a very good player b/c he saw the ice, used leverage to compensate for lack of size, and didn't make mistakes.

People get enamoured with players like Makar, forgetting how rare they are - most defenses rely on good, reliable players, not ultra talented players.

possible sure. Where do you get the he resisted coaching? He was thrust into the #1 role at what 18 years old? That's poor management by the GM at the time.

IDK that York is smarter just yet. Also Dead stop blaming coaching and everything else when it comes to Risto. Does he not get any blame for being what he is today? The fact you think he will improve or has the capability to improve is funny to me.

Hell has Ivan and Sanheim had good coaching?

Who is the better bargain (lack of a better word): Risto at 5.1 or Sanheim at 6.5 (or whatever it is)

 

[deadhead]

Risto did improve substantially on defense, cut his hits way back and wasn't consistently out of position. Shaw is a good coach.

York was a revelation last year, every D-man paired with him played better than without him - that's a sign of a special player.
And he was thrown into a 1st pair role, yet lead the team in xGFrel by a sizeable margin.
He didn't do it through talent, while solid all around, nothing about his play jumps out and says this is an exceptionally talented player.

To me, defensive instincts are about imposing order on chaos, offensive instincts are about exploiting chaos to create scoring opportunities.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Risto did improve substantially on defense, cut his hits way back and wasn't consistently out of position. Shaw is a good coach.

York was a revelation last year, every D-man paired with him played better than without him - that's a sign of a special player.
And he was thrown into a 1st pair role, yet lead the team in xGFrel by a sizeable margin.
He didn't do it through talent, while solid all around, nothing about his play jumps out and says this is an exceptionally talented player.

To me, defensive instincts are about imposing order on chaos, offensive instincts are about exploiting chaos to create scoring opportunities.

he was so bad he had nowhere to go but up really. I dont see it as much as you do. Simple fact is Risto is an overpaid bottom pair dman, no matter how much you say he improved. Who may never ever play a playoff game.

To accomplish that in the NHL is an accomplishment. Anyone have any idea what the record is for most games played whiteout 1 playoff game?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

he was so bad he had nowhere to go but up really. I dont see it as much as you do. Simple fact is Risto is an overpaid bottom pair dman, no matter how much you say he improved. Who may never ever play a playoff game.

To accomplish that in the NHL is an accomplishment. Anyone have any idea what the record is for most games played whiteout 1 playoff game?

Bouwmeester had it at one point.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Risto did improve substantially on defense, cut his hits way back and wasn't consistently out of position. Shaw is a good coach.

York was a revelation last year, every D-man paired with him played better than without him - that's a sign of a special player.
And he was thrown into a 1st pair role, yet lead the team in xGFrel by a sizeable margin.
He didn't do it through talent, while solid all around, nothing about his play jumps out and says this is an exceptionally talented player.

To me, defensive instincts are about imposing order on chaos, offensive instincts are about exploiting chaos to create scoring opportunities.

If Shaw is so good how come he couldn't give Sanheim a stellar year. Wouldn't it be a humongous error to not have Zamula working with him?

 

[freakydallas13]

Weird how every problem this team has faced for 40 years is the fault of players and not the common denominators in decision making.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

In the three seasons before the Flyers hired a dinosaur as their head coach, Sanheim produced 67 ES points. More than Severson, Fowler, Pionk, Dahlin, Hanifin, Andersson, Spurgeon, Trouba etc.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

What are you talking about points for? Don't you know that goals and scoring don't matter in hockey. It's all about trying hard and grinding against the boards and playing defense that wins games. The f*** you talking bout points for!

 

[Flyerfan4life]

What are you talking about points for? Don't you know that goals and scoring don't matter in hockey. It's all about trying hard and grinding against the boards and playing defense that wins games. The f*** you talking bout points for!

#culture

 

[deadhead]

What are you talking about points for? Don't you know that goals and scoring don't matter in hockey. It's all about trying hard and grinding against the boards and playing defense that wins games. The f*** you talking bout points for!

Doesn't an aggressive forecheck that forces turnovers create scoring opportunities?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Doesn't an aggressive forecheck that forces turnovers create scoring opportunities?

Since when has Tortorella run an aggressive forecheck that creates scoring opportunities?

 

[Kelmitchell2]

Since when has Tortorella run an aggressive forecheck that creates scoring opportunities?

Tampa 20 years ago maybe, but I remember their powerplay killed us, but one thing I do know is, that's not how he coached in Vancouver, new York, or Columbus

 

[mr figgles]

Bouwmeester had it at one point.

Ristolainen will pass his mark this year, if he plays 79 games. Looks like Skinner is the new leader though with 932 games played and no playoffs.

 

[wasup]

Risto did improve substantially on defense, cut his hits way back and wasn't consistently out of position. Shaw is a good coach.

York was a revelation last year, every D-man paired with him played better than without him - that's a sign of a special player.
And he was thrown into a 1st pair role, yet lead the team in xGFrel by a sizeable margin.
He didn't do it through talent, while solid all around, nothing about his play jumps out and says this is an exceptionally talented player.

To me, defensive instincts are about imposing order on chaos, offensive instincts are about exploiting chaos to create scoring opportunities.

I posted a grid of who the worst turn over give away NHL D in the league were last year { Risto } a week back but you just seem to gloss by it and still claim Risto improved substantially . I guess fewer hits and less running around makes all the difference .

Yes Shaw is a great coach just like Tort's is . Can ya smell what i'm cooking .

 

[BiggE]

Michkov a healthy scratch in the KHL opener. The powers of the God Emperor Torts are vast indeed.

 

[trostol]

I wonder if Coots is on a good pace how many teams will be sniffing around

 

[BiggE]

I wonder if Coots is on a good pace how many teams will be sniffing around

With 6 more years after this season? Probably not many.

 

[Curufinwe]

Can we maybe move one of Hart, TK or Laughton before talking about the very unrealistic possibility of trading a 30 year old with a NMC and 7 years left.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Can we maybe move one of Hart, TK or Laughton before talking about the very unrealistic possibility of trading a 30 year old with a NMC and 7 years left.

I think we are gonna need to hear about them even trying to move Laughton, Tippett, or Risto before we can assume they're trying to more a Hart or TK. We have to build up to be able to build up.

 

[Deadpool8812]

I think we are gonna need to hear about them even trying to move Laughton, Tippett, or Risto before we can assume they're trying to more a Hart or TK. We have to build up to be able to build up.

They had their chance to move Laughton and get a great return. $50 says Laughton has a down year and we end up moving him for a 2nd and a 22 year old AHLer

 

[Beef Invictus]

I hate kickoffs. I wish we could do a hail Mary play instead, where we either score or the other team gets the ball where we end up.

 

[tnfrs]

Can we maybe move one of Hart, TK or Laughton before talking about the very unrealistic possibility of trading a 30 year old with a NMC and 7 years left.

if coots is here for 7 years I wouldnt mind it if he can play full seasons at full throttle for most of it. if cates is going to be here, Couturier is as good a mentor as you would want. and if cates is the guy that makes frost expendable even though not everyone agrees he's had a fair look I think most of us agree Frost gets a better return than Cates does. Hart is RFA after this year TK is UFA next year, Laughton is rumored to be a pretty hot commodity, so those 4 are the likliest to go that would get us anything back of value. TK we know can play for tortorella but so can Tippett, and if Tip has a really good season they can extend Tippett and TK becomes expendable.

If we can get good value back for TK, Frost, Hart, and Laughton over the next 2 seasons we can keep drafting a few first rounders every year and make room for prospects. Thats probably all it would take to ensure last place

 

[blackjackmulligan]

I think we are gonna need to hear about them even trying to move Laughton, Tippett, or Risto before we can assume they're trying to more a Hart or TK. We have to build up to be able to build up.

they already tried to move Frost.Didn't have any takers for the asking price of a 1st rd pick.

 

[Fight4yourRight]

this is gonna be a dark place in october huh?

As opposed to the other 11 months?

 

[Beef Invictus]

they already tried to move Frost.Didn't have any takers for the asking price of a 1st rd pick.

To cater to Tortorella. It isn't a rebuild.