2023-24 Roster Thread 4: September is National Bourbon Heritage Month

[Hollywood Cannon]

Just a reminder, the Flyers STILL haven't made a selection with the first round pick acquired in the Giroux deal but hey that's the going rate for deadline deals, right?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

First, we got a better deal from Florida than Colorado would have offered, in hindsight. Barron, etc haven't done much, Tippett had 27 goals.

Second, if you're rebuilding, last thing you want is G back, you're stuck with Couts and Atkinson right now, all G could do is take another top roster spot and hurt the "tank."

When his Ottawa deal is done, if the Flyers are competitive at that point, he could be a veteran pickup for a young team.

That Giroux can't be a vet presence signing but Deslauriers and Hathaway can be given term for the same reasons is putting quite the tidy bow on what's wrong with this org.

And don't tell me it's roles. We're talking about vet presences, not 4th vs 1st liners. Having a Giroux next to you on the ice does more for a skill player's development than a walking cliche on the bench.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

That Giroux can't be a vet presence signing but Deslauriers and Hathaway can be given term for the same reasons is putting quite the tidy bow on what's wrong with this org.

And don't tell me it's roles. We're talking about vet presences, not 4th vs 1st liners. Having a Giroux next to you on the ice does more for a skill player's development than a walking cliche on the bench.

its staggeringly bad how EVERY single thing this Org. does is the wrong choice

like bloody clockwork.

 

[DancingPanther]

That Giroux can't be a vet presence signing but Deslauriers and Hathaway can be given term for the same reasons is putting quite the tidy bow on what's wrong with this org.

And don't tell me it's roles. We're talking about vet presences, not 4th vs 1st liners. Having a Giroux next to you on the ice does more for a skill player's development than a walking cliche on the bench.

Giroux isn't tough as nails. Hardly a Flyer. We need north south hockey Jojo. We need to bang some bodies. Wear em down. That's the identity of this org and we've been straying away from that.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Giroux isn't tough as nails. Hardly a Flyer. We need north south hockey Jojo. We need to bang some bodies. Wear em down. That's the identity of this org and we've been straying away from that.

Counterpoint: I think they've done an excellent job of wearing you and me down.

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

That Giroux can't be a vet presence signing but Deslauriers and Hathaway can be given term for the same reasons is putting quite the tidy bow on what's wrong with this org.

And don't tell me it's roles. We're talking about vet presences, not 4th vs 1st liners. Having a Giroux next to you on the ice does more for a skill player's development than a walking cliche on the bench.

First thing I thought when I read that. Keeping Laughton and TK ain't so bad, because they can mentor the kids, right? Best player since Lindros though? Nah, no need.

 

[DancingPanther]

Counterpoint: I think they've done an excellent job of wearing you and me down.

Like a magic eraser that's so flat your finger pokes through and you don't realize it

 

[freakydallas13]

That Giroux can't be a vet presence signing but Deslauriers and Hathaway can be given term for the same reasons is putting quite the tidy bow on what's wrong with this org.

And don't tell me it's roles. We're talking about vet presences, not 4th vs 1st liners. Having a Giroux next to you on the ice does more for a skill player's development than a walking cliche on the bench.

They value vet presence like Giroux Hayes DeAngelo Deslauriers, obviously.

 

[Curufinwe]

The real issue is that it was reported that Giroux only wanted to go to FLA because CF wouldn't tell Giroux that he would be resigned over the off season. I CF did his job correctly you tell the guy you will resign him, trade him to COL, get a bigger return, and then get Giroux back on team friendly deal. and if then Giroux decides hes done with the Flyers than you already maximized his trade value by not being limited to trading him to only FLA

Makes no sense that Giroux would want to commit his future to Philly before even he saw what happened on his new team.

 

[Curufinwe]

Just a reminder, the Flyers STILL haven't made a selection with the first round pick acquired in the Giroux deal but hey that's the going rate for deadline deals, right?

Well a guaranteed Hall of Famer with a NMC got less at the last deadline.

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

And a Hart winner with a NMC got even less at the 2021 deadline.

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

So no, the going rate is significantly lower than what Giroux returned.

 

[deadhead]

That Giroux can't be a vet presence signing but Deslauriers and Hathaway can be given term for the same reasons is putting quite the tidy bow on what's wrong with this org.

And don't tell me it's roles. We're talking about vet presences, not 4th vs 1st liners. Having a Giroux next to you on the ice does more for a skill player's development than a walking cliche on the bench.

I didn't say CF did the right thing after the G trade, that's when the rebuild should have started. Though Deslauriers played the least minutes of any starter, so it's not like he took PT from anyone, no one is playing G 8 minutes a night at ES.

Hathaway is a 4RW, I'd rather have real prospects in LHV than in that role, and he should have trade value at some point. He signed for an overpay (Chicago did the same with a couple veterans) but I'm sure both parties expect a trade at some point.

 

[Deadpool8812]

Makes no sense that Giroux would want to commit his future to Philly before even he saw what happened on his new team.

Giroux was loyal to the organization. He probably didn't really care how competitive they would be the next few years but was willing to come back and help. He went out and got a chance at a cup elsewhere (didn't succeed) but was probably willing to come back on another short contract before being moved again for another shot at a cup elsewhere while also getting this organization another futures return to continue the rebuild.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Problem was what did Giroux mean by "resigning."
A deal to finish his career would be a 3 year or longer with a NTC.
Doubt G meant to resign to a one year deal with no trade protection.

That's a problem for later. Maximize return first.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Well a guaranteed Hall of Famer with a NMC got less at the last deadline.

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

And a Hart winner with a NMC got even less at the 2021 deadline.

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

So no, the going rate is significantly lower than what Giroux returned.

Those are worse players so that probably has something to do with it.

 

[Striiker]

They obviously could have and should have kept Giroux, but I’m so glad they didn’t.

He deserves better than here, even if he doesn’t realize it. Somehow he’s aging even better than expected and is still a monster player, so it would’ve been such a shame for the best Flyer of all time to waste his last years on this disaster of a team, with a horrible coach like Torts.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

They obviously could have and should have kept Giroux, but I’m so glad they didn’t.

He deserves better than here, even if he doesn’t realize it. Somehow he’s aging even better than expected and is still a monster player, so it would’ve been such a shame for the best Flyer of all time to waste his last years on this disaster of a team, with a horrible coach like Torts.

no they shouldn't have kept him.

He choose to stay here for as long as he did. Guy was complacent and comfortable as one can get. Little desire to want to win. "deserves" better lol.

people still bellyaching about the Clode trade and return.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

no they shouldn't have kept him.

He choose to stay here for as long as he did. Guy was complacent and comfortable as one can get. Little desire to want to win. "deserves" better lol.

people still bellyaching about the Clode trade and return.

I’ll hang up and listen.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I didn't say CF did the right thing after the G trade, that's when the rebuild should have started. Though Deslauriers played the least minutes of any starter, so it's not like he took PT from anyone, no one is playing G 8 minutes a night at ES.

Hathaway is a 4RW, I'd rather have real prospects in LHV than in that role, and he should have trade value at some point. He signed for an overpay (Chicago did the same with a couple veterans) but I'm sure both parties expect a trade at some point.

To be clear, I wasn’t criticizing you. I apologize for not making that evident.

I think your explanations of why they do what they do are more often than not correct. It’s just that we’re on something like Year 7 where the reasoning is shit. I know you get caught up in their wake sometimes, but that’s entirely on the org.

 

[JohnLennon]

As an outside fan looking at your lineup predictions, why do so many of you have Cates as 2C and Frost as 3C? I like Cates, but he seems much more suited to be the 3C long-term, whereas Frost has more obvious top 6 upside and proved that emphatically last year. I even had a feeling there was an outside chance at Frost taking 1C from Couts this year, but I guess I'm missing something?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

As an outside fan looking at your lineup predictions, why do so many of you have Cates as 2C and Frost as 3C? I like Cates, but he seems much more suited to be the 3C long-term, whereas Frost has more obvious top 6 upside and proved that emphatically last year. I even had a feeling there was an outside chance at Frost taking 1C from Couts this year, but I guess I'm missing something?

Sure, for a team that’s run properly and on merit that’s a logical stance.

This team isn’t run on that. Cates is a favorite of the organization and Torts despite having limited offensive capabilities thus far. Frost is viewed as a poor defensive player (he’s not) and has been referred to as a “toilet seat” by Tortorella.

 

[JohnLennon]

Sure, for a team that’s run properly and on merit that’s a logical stance.

This team isn’t run on that. Cates is a favorite of the organization and Torts despite having limited offensive capabilities thus far. Frost is viewed as a poor defensive player (he’s not) and has been referred to as a “toilet seat” by Tortorella.

That is... shocking. Man, really not a fan of Torts lol

I'm a Habs fan so I'll meet you guys at the bottom of the standings either way, lol

Really rooting for Frost and Cam York this year. Two of my favorites.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

As an outside fan looking at your lineup predictions, why do so many of you have Cates as 2C and Frost as 3C? I like Cates, but he seems much more suited to be the 3C long-term, whereas Frost has more obvious top 6 upside and proved that emphatically last year. I even had a feeling there was an outside chance at Frost taking 1C from Couts this year, but I guess I'm missing something?

his name is Torts.

#endthread

 

[Beef Invictus]

As an outside fan looking at your lineup predictions, why do so many of you have Cates as 2C and Frost as 3C? I like Cates, but he seems much more suited to be the 3C long-term, whereas Frost has more obvious top 6 upside and proved that emphatically last year. I even had a feeling there was an outside chance at Frost taking 1C from Couts this year, but I guess I'm missing something?

Tortorella is stupid. The Flyers are stupid.

 

[Curufinwe]

As an outside fan looking at your lineup predictions, why do so many of you have Cates as 2C and Frost as 3C?

I don't think there's a hard distinction between the 2nd and 3rd lines when you look at the team.

 

[deadhead]

As an outside fan looking at your lineup predictions, why do so many of you have Cates as 2C and Frost as 3C? I like Cates, but he seems much more suited to be the 3C long-term, whereas Frost has more obvious top 6 upside and proved that emphatically last year. I even had a feeling there was an outside chance at Frost taking 1C from Couts this year, but I guess I'm missing something?

Some people here like to exaggerate.

When both were at center full-time, they were 2a and 2b, playing the same amount of minutes at ES.
Neither is proven, Frost is the better offensive player, Cates was an elite defensive center last year.

Ideally, they're used situationally, Frost getting more time when behind and offensive zone starts, Cates getting more time with leads and matched against certain opposing centers.

This will also depend on Couts' health, he was an elite defensive center before his back injury, if he returns to that level, Cates role would be reduced, if not, then Cates becomes the primary "stopper."