2023-24 Roster Thread 3: We Three Flyers

[Beef Invictus]

You all complaint that there is no leadership in this locker room but you don't even point out who should be in as captain.

I don't think anybody here has ever complained about this

Edit: and I've actually said for a long time that this team shouldn't have a captain. Management and media can't handle it. It's a pure negative.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Zamula and Attard will probably be sheltered initially, and given more PT if they show they can handle it.

Walker is going to play a lot of minutes, you're not playing York with Attard to start the season, maybe if Attard looks more reliable, but do you want to put that much pressure on York? Give him a veteran partner to start the season (Walker) and let him get comfortable in a bigger role.

I get the sense the flyers do not think all that much of those 2 or Ginning. if they did a rebuilding team wouldn't have the blueline they currently have in place.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Seeler earned his PT. What's wrong with that?
Should TB have just sat 26 year old Gourde for higher rate prospects and ignored his play?

Has nothing to do with Seeler himself as he turned himself into a solid bottom pair guy. He should have been moved as that is what a real rebuilding team does don't you think? There is little benefit in playing seeler in the top 6 when you look at the rest of the D.

 

[deadhead]

I get the sense the flyers do not think all that much of those 2 or Ginning. if they did a rebuilding team wouldn't have the blueline they currently have in place.

They like Zamula, they've just been patient with him as he fills out that frame, but they don't see him as the 25 minute guy to anchor the defense, probably more of a #4/#5.

I think Attard is also a matter of patience, he has the tools to be a top offensive defensemen (more scorer than playmaker) but is raw defensively, so they're in no rush to give him big minutes, but he did look good in his cameo two years ago after a dreadful start - the worry probably has been that he'd be exposed as the league saw his weaknesses on defense.

Ginning is a typical #6/#7 candidate, big D-man who can make exit passes, has functional mobility but lacks any dynamic skills, the prototype stay at home D-man. However, I think McDonald may push him for that spot in a year or two. These are the types you marinate in the AHL for 2-3 years until proper positioning is second nature, since that's their ticket to the NHL.

 

[Beef Invictus]

They like Zamula, they've just been patient with him as he fills out that frame, but they don't see him as the 25 minute guy to anchor the defense, probably more of a #4/#5.

I think Attard is also a matter of patience, he has the tools to be a top offensive defensemen (more scorer than playmaker) but is raw defensively, so they're in no rush to give him big minutes, but he did look good in his cameo two years ago after a dreadful start - the worry probably has been that he'd be exposed as the league saw his weaknesses on defense.

Ginning is a typical #6/#7 candidate, big D-man who can make exit passes, has functional mobility but lacks any dynamic skills, the prototype stay at home D-man. However, I think McDonald may push him for that spot in a year or two. These are the types you marinate in the AHL for 2-3 years until proper positioning is second nature, since that's their ticket to the NHL.

They do not like Zamula. Your boy refused to play him.

He is a better option to roll with than Staal, but he won't play and they'll marinate him right out of NA without having gotten a scrap of utility out of him because they think Yandles are good.

 

[deadhead]

Has nothing to do with Seeler himself as he turned himself into a solid bottom pair guy. He should have been moved as that is what a real rebuilding team does don't you think? There is little benefit in playing seeler in the top 6 when you look at the rest of the D.

Seeler plays well with others, which is a good trait for a veteran D-man, he even elevated TDA's play.
He'd be a good partner with Attard or even Risto, and Grans/Samson later in the season or due to injuries.

Staal was probably signed to be more a coach on the ice than anything else. I doubt he plays on a regular basis, but he knows what Torts wants, and can work with the young D-man. Wouldn't be surprised if he signed b/c he's thinking about going into coaching and this would be a smooth entry.

Come the TDL, if the young players progress, a bunch of these guys will be on the market.
I can see Walker, Seeler, Hathaway and maybe Poehling (if they don't see a future for him here) on the block.

 

[Curufinwe]

Staal played 82 games for Florida

Staal won’t “play on a regular basis” in Philly

You all complaint that there is no leadership in this locker room but you don't even point out who should be in as captain.

Couturier should obviously wear the C. But Torts doesn’t want one because he wants to shit all over the players he doesn’t like without having a captain to get in the way.

 

[Curufinwe]

Staal is going to be a top pair D for this team. My guess is we see something like:

Staal-Walker
Sanheim-Risto
York-Seeler
Zamula-Attard

Torts solution to playing "the young D" will be routinley dressing 7 D, with Zamula and Attard rotating in.

We will see this until about March when "theyre officially eliminated" and Walker or Staal are traded.

From October-March we will be lectured on how Zamula and Attard arent playing bc they havent beaten out the Vets...even though the vets have been terrible. Andrea...will not make the team despite looking NHL ready and we will be lectured about needing "seasoning" and "bulking up".

And if you think this take is dramatic...this time last year I said york would start in LV and was laughed at.

York averaged 1:23 more ice time at ES than Risto did once he came up, so why do you think York will play behind him next season?

And why do you think Walker is going to be on the top pairing under Torts? Why does anyone think that? He was a 15 minute guy in LA, and wasn’t known for being a strong defender.

Attard doesn’t even need to be on the roster because he’s waiver exempt.

 

[deadhead]

Interesting note off NHL Rumors:

"speaking with Match TV, Michkov revealed SKA plans to try the natural winger at center next season."

 

[landsbergfan]

 

[Curufinwe]

Two goalies under contract for 24-25, none of them named Carter Hart.

Actually three - Petersen, Ersson, Koslov

 

[Adam Warlock]

Signing Erson a year in advance. Fighting to get Fedotov over here. Drafting 2 goalies with high picks. Trading for Peterson.

Could be nothing but also seems like a lot of attention on a position that has a set number one guy in it.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Seeler plays well with others, which is a good trait for a veteran D-man, he even elevated TDA's play.
He'd be a good partner with Attard or even Risto, and Grans/Samson later in the season or due to injuries.

Staal was probably signed to be more a coach on the ice than anything else. I doubt he plays on a regular basis, but he knows what Torts wants, and can work with the young D-man. Wouldn't be surprised if he signed b/c he's thinking about going into coaching and this would be a smooth entry.

Come the TDL, if the young players progress, a bunch of these guys will be on the market.
I can see Walker, Seeler, Hathaway and maybe Poehling (if they don't see a future for him here) on the block.

what color is the sky in your world? so from top 4 in a cu finalist to baely playing in 6 months. At least you are consistent.

Doesn't matter that Seeler plays well, you need to capitalize on the asset and acquire picks for him. Then get the next Seeler and mov him along if you choose. There is no need for all of walker staal and seeler on a rebuilding team. You are likely one of the few who thinks they are rebuilding.

 

[deadhead]

what color is the sky in your world? so from top 4 in a cu finalist to baely playing in 6 months. At least you are consistent.

Doesn't matter that Seeler plays well, you need to capitalize on the asset and acquire picks for him. Then get the next Seeler and mov him along if you choose. There is no need for all of walker staal and seeler on a rebuilding team. You are likely one of the few who thinks they are rebuilding.

There was no market for Staal, if a playoff team had come calling, I'm sure he'd have signed with them.
He's made plenty of money, he's not going to join the Flyers for a vet minimum payday, so figure he's thinking ahead to after his playing days.
Some guys just don't like to golf 6 days a week.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[blackjackmulligan]

They like Zamula, they've just been patient with him as he fills out that frame, but they don't see him as the 25 minute guy to anchor the defense, probably more of a #4/#5.

I think Attard is also a matter of patience, he has the tools to be a top offensive defensemen (more scorer than playmaker) but is raw defensively, so they're in no rush to give him big minutes, but he did look good in his cameo two years ago after a dreadful start - the worry probably has been that he'd be exposed as the league saw his weaknesses on defense.

Ginning is a typical #6/#7 candidate, big D-man who can make exit passes, has functional mobility but lacks any dynamic skills, the prototype stay at home D-man. However, I think McDonald may push him for that spot in a year or two. These are the types you marinate in the AHL for 2-3 years until proper positioning is second nature, since that's their ticket to the NHL.

more evidence exist they do not like Zamul athan they do. All 3 are 23/24 years old. Patience should be shown at the nhl level at this time. Let them sink or swim see what you have going forward. They refuse to do that, why?

Unless of course the flyers have determined they are not really top 6 nhl level players.

Hunter will not be an nhl player a all imo. Not even sure he will carve out an AHL career. They can talk him up all they want. I have seen him play a decent amount of times. I don't see it.

There was no market for Staal, if a playoff team had come calling, I'm sure he'd have signed with them.
He's made plenty of money, he's not going to join the Flyers for a vet minimum payday, so figure he's thinking ahead to after his playing days.
Some guys just don't like to golf 6 days a week.

good lord. Yes he knows the flyers have a lifetime country club so probably did factor. Job for life.

so what is your over/under for games staal plays?

 

[ponder719]

I doubt he plays on a regular basis

742nd verse, same as the first 741. And almost certainly just as incorrect.

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

They do not like Zamula. Your boy refused to play him.

He is a better option to roll with than Staal, but he won't play and they'll marinate him right out of NA without having gotten a scrap of utility out of him because they think Yandles are good.

We've been over this before... every rebuilding team in modern NHL history (literally every example of a "good" or "successful" rebuild you could conjure up in a previous discussion) has made depth signings like Marc Staal for leadership.

Every successful rebuild in modern NHL History had young players/prospects needing to earn their ice time, not just being thrown on the ice for the big club cause "hey we're gonna suck anyway, let's see what we've got".

You talk about how bad our talent development is as if we've just let monster player after monster player wither away in the AHL under our terrible coaches/execs and then they've gone elsewhere and been successful. Can you even name one? Good players careers don't just wither and die because a team didn't handle them perfectly. They might take longer to breakout or need a change of scenery to do so, but I'm really racking my brain for a single example. If anything, I'd say we capitalized on another org's failure in talent development w/ Tippett. If Provy goes on to play great for Columbus, that would be the first one and maybe you could start to build your case, but consider me a skeptic on that happening.

The thing that has really plagued this organization over the years is terrible long term signings, poor drafting, poor trades (using draft capital for marginal or bad players) and (to a lesser degree) bad luck with injuries. The current regime hasn't made any bad long term signings, hasn't spent any draft capital in trades but has rather stockpiled it, and by all accounts they hit a home run in the draft.

But hey, stay negative!

 

[FlyerNutter]

We've been over this before... every rebuilding team in modern NHL history (literally every example of a "good" or "successful" rebuild you could conjure up in a previous discussion) has made depth signings like Marc Staal for leadership.

Every successful rebuild in modern NHL History had young players/prospects needing to earn their ice time, not just being thrown on the ice for the big club cause "hey we're gonna suck anyway, let's see what we've got".

You talk about how bad our talent development is as if we've just let monster player after monster player wither away in the AHL under our terrible coaches/execs and then they've gone elsewhere and been successful. Can you even name one? Good players careers don't just wither and die because a team didn't handle them perfectly. They might take longer to breakout or need a change of scenery to do so, but I'm really racking my brain for a single example. If anything, I'd say we capitalized on another org's failure in talent development w/ Tippett. If Provy goes on to play great for Columbus, that would be the first one and maybe you could start to build your case, but consider me a skeptic on that happening.

The thing that has really plagued this organization over the years is terrible long term signings, poor drafting, poor trades (using draft capital for marginal or bad players) and (to a lesser degree) bad luck with injuries. The current regime hasn't made any bad long term signings, hasn't spent any draft capital in trades but has rather stockpiled it, and by all accounts they hit a home run in the draft.

But hey, stay negative!

They happily have a rebuild plan that sits them comfortably in drafting 5-10th.

With this scouting, and developmental group?

Rebuild my ass.

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

more evidence exist they do not like Zamul athan they do. All 3 are 23/24 years old. Patience should be shown at the nhl level at this time. Let them sink or swim see what you have going forward. They refuse to do that, why?

What evidence do you have that "let them sink or swim" is an effective strategy? What successful teams employ this?

The Flyers coaches/execs see these players every day at practice. They have tape of every game they play in the AHL and get reports from their coaches. Do you really think they need to throw a player they don't think is ready into the big pond "just to be sure"?

Where's a single example of a player they were wrong about going on to have success elsewhere when they couldn't get playing time here?

There's 31 other teams in the league. All 31 of them are looking for diamonds in the rough. All 31 of them are continually scouting. By the estimation of most posters on this board, 31 of them are better at scouting / player development than the Flyers. Surely if the Flyers were fumbling the bag as bad as all of you claim, one of these other 31 better teams would've fleeced us by turning one of these players we mishandled into a real quality NHLer...

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

They happily have a rebuild plan that sits them comfortably in drafting 5-10th.

With this scouting, and developmental group?

Rebuild my ass.

Did the Blackhawks get the #1 overall pick despite having Toews and Kane on their roster till the deadline (for the full season in Toews case)? And everyone throws them up as an example of a great job tanking.

Rome wasn't built in a day. Neither is a rebuild.

Pigeonholing yourself to needing to unload everything in one offseason and firesaling your most valuable players in an attempt to race to the bottom isn't an effective strategy and it isn't realistic either. You need to get top value from guys like Laughton and Konecny.

In fact, what would probably be best for this team and this rebuild is if some of those players you're angry we have kept so far had good seasons playing with Coots and Atkinson, showcasing how valuable our aging vets are. And then maybe we could get off one or both of those contracts. That would be huge.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

What evidence do you have that "let them sink or swim" is an effective strategy? What successful teams employ this?

The Flyers coaches/execs see these players every day at practice. They have tape of every game they play in the AHL and get reports from their coaches. Do you really think they need to throw a player they don't think is ready into the big pond "just to be sure"?

Where's a single example of a player they were wrong about going on to have success elsewhere when they couldn't get playing time here?

There's 31 other teams in the league. All 31 of them are looking for diamonds in the rough. All 31 of them are continually scouting. By the estimation of most posters on this board, 31 of them are better at scouting / player development than the Flyers. Surely if the Flyers were fumbling the bag as bad as all of you claim, one of these other 31 better teams would've fleeced us by turning one of these players we mishandled into a real quality NHLer...

The flyers are rebuilding. There is no need for 3 no future vets in the top 6. They have several younger players (23/24 years old) they need to take a look at, at the nhl level. This is not a hard concept to grasp. When are these guys supposed to get a legit opportunity?

This is the perfect year to see what those players have to offer. To see if they are part of the process moving forward. You disagree?

Now maybe they do not think those guys are nhl level. Since this is rebuilding year wouldn't you want to find out?

 

[Curufinwe]

Andrae is the guy who could push Staal onto the third pairing, and if he continues to play well in LHV, may do so by January.

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

The flyers are rebuilding. There is no need for 3 no future vets in the top 6. They have several younger players (23/24 years old) they need to take a look at, at the nhl level. This is not a hard concept to grasp. When are these guys supposed to get a legit opportunity?

This is the perfect year to see what those players have to offer. To see if they are part of the process moving forward. You disagree?

Now maybe they do not think those guys are nhl level. Since this is rebuilding year wouldn't you want to find out?

I wouldn't be mad if the young guys eclipsed the "no future" vets and got the bulk of the playing time. But I see no reason for them to be handed ice time on the basis of what they've shown (or rather haven't shown) at lower levels.

You want a shot? EARN IT.

Do I disagree with you that I'd love to know what we have in every under 25 player at the end of this season? Of course not. That would be great. I just see zero evidence anywhere that throwing players who by the club's estimation are not ready into the deep end just because we can and we're not competing is an effective strategy.

Giving someone a taste of the the pros only to then demote him if he's not ready like you thought can be just as damaging if not more so than keeping a player in the minors too long.

 

[Curufinwe]

There was no market for Staal, if a playoff team had come calling, I'm sure he'd have signed with them.
He's made plenty of money, he's not going to join the Flyers for a vet minimum payday, so figure he's thinking ahead to after his playing days.
Some guys just don't like to golf 6 days a week.

Staal got a 47% pay raise by joining the Flyers, and he knows he can still be traded to a playoff team in March. His $1,100,000 salary is $325,000 above league minimum.

You can’t go one post without making up dumb shit to support fanciful theories.