2023-24 Roster Thread 3: We Three Flyers

[Flyerfan4life]

They do not

more likely to build around him..

hahaaa

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Provo wanted out along with a few others but so far he is the only one that got his wish . There is another D and I am sure lots on here knows who it is and one forward from what I was told .

I,m not sure how this happens cause I,m told most all love Tort,s and he is not the A hole he appears to be . He a sheep in wolf,s clothing .

do tell as no idea though would love to hear it

 

[Tripod]

Traded Ghost +2nd for cap room
Spent a 1st+2nd to aquire Risto to replace him
Signed him for 5 million
Then had to try and "fix" him
If the fix takes, you might be able to trade him IF you retain 1-2 million

Not a mistake though

 

[Beef Invictus]

Traded Ghost +2nd for cap room
Spent a 1st+2nd to aquire Risto to replace him
Signed him for 5 million
Then had to try and "fix" him
If the fix takes, you might be able to trade him IF you retain 1-2 million

Not a mistake though

He ascended from AHL to 3rd pair level for one season so it's good value now.

 

[Striiker]

No player as terrible as Risto go anything like that return.

Except for exactly what Risto got, since Fletcher is the worst GM imaginable.

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

Except for exactly what Risto got, since Fletcher is the worst GM imaginable.

Bryan Colangelo's absurdly large collars would like to have a word with you...

But if we're sticking to hockey only yeah, pretty much lol

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

do tell as no idea though would love to hear it

I'm gonna assume the defenseman is Sanheim almost guaranteed. He's the only one that makes sense given that he didn't have a great year, was in Torts doghouse and had that whole rather ridiculous incident of sitting in the pressbox for his homecoming with tons of family/friends in the stands. Ironically enough, Torts being a dick may actually (unintentionally) help us with respect to Sanheim because most everyone here would like to be off of Sanheim's disastrous 7 year contract and full NMC and Sanheim seems to have positive trade value. If he had a good relationship with the coach, he might consider invoking said NMC but because he hates Torts, it seems the NMC wouldn't be an obstacle.

The forward is a little tougher to figure out but I'd imagine it is either Frost or Farabee. Frost might have the better logical case, but Farabee's agent was reported to express his client's displeasure with how the Flyers season was going and someone brought that to Torts for comment and Torts publicly stated that his agent should shut up if he was popping off.

Alienating Frost or Farabee would be much more difficult to stomach than Sanheim. Of course, the legitimacy of the other poster's "sources" and whether these guys actually are asking out is very much in question. This may just be a case of someone reading the tea leaves of the incidents that occurred this season.

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

Provo wanted out along with a few others but so far he is the only one that got his wish . There is another D and I am sure lots on here knows who it is and one forward from what I was told .

I,m not sure how this happens cause I,m told most all love Tort,s and he is not the A hole he appears to be . He a sheep in wolf,s clothing .

I'm a Torts agnostic. He could be fired tomorrow and I wouldn't care (as long as Lappy isn't the replacement LMAO). I don't think he makes it to the end of the rebuild regardless.

He's absolutely an asshole. And he takes his assholery to an absurdly unnecessary level. The pettiness of his actions towards Sanheim for instance are just so beyond the pale.

But at the same time, sometimes assholes make decent leaders and get results (at least in the short term). It's tough to parse how much credit the coach should/shouldn't get for players taking steps forward under his watch, but I was happy with how Konecny, Frost, Tippett, York all looked by season's end. The results were nice, even if the process was less than ideal.

 

[deadhead]

Provo wanted out along with a few others but so far he is the only one that got his wish . There is another D and I am sure lots on here knows who it is and one forward from what I was told .

I,m not sure how this happens cause I,m told most all love Tort,s and he is not the A hole he appears to be . He a sheep in wolf,s clothing .

I can tell you how it happens, some players have an entitlement attitude, especially offense first players, and hate having their mistakes pointed out and being expected to play fundamentally sound hockey and give consistent effort. A lot of these players wouldn't last two weeks in a NFL training camp. You think Jeff Stoutland coddles his O-linemen?

In the Eagles’ offensive-line room, the players sit in office chairs in front of a big screen as Stoutland presides over film critiques and fires questions at players, a process he refers to as “cold calling.” “I’m telling you, it’s stressful,” Mailata says. “It goes like: ‘Mailata! What are you going to do when this happens?’ You have to have no excuses. You get the wrong answer, and your ass is going to get chewed.”

Can the N.F.L. Turn a 360-Pound Rugby Player Into a Football Star? (Published 2019)

Jordan Mailata had never played football before the Eagles drafted him last year. Now he has to prove himself in one of the sport’s most technically demanding positions

www.nytimes.com

Sanheim should stop whining and work his ass off this summer, b/c the league doesn't consider him worthy of his new contract (no takers).
Ignore last season, the two previous seasons he was 67th among D-men in pp/60 (5x5). Point is, even before his off season, he wasn't a top offensive defenseman, and no one sees him as a top defensive defenseman. So 8x$6.25M is a lot of money for a 2nd pair D-man. If he's unhappy, waive his NTC and I'm sure Briere will try to find a taker.

I figure the unhappy forward is Allison and/or Laczynski. Torts is trying to save Allison's career, b/c he just doesn't have good vision and needs to play a power game and leave the pretty passes to skilled players. Torts rode him for making too many bad East-West passes that got intercepted. "A man's got to know his limitations." Laczynski once showed promise, but can't stay healthy, and isn't talented enough to play dinged.

 

[CutOnDime97]

Torts Saves

 

[FlyerNutter]

So much entitlement in the world eh

 

[Beef Invictus]

Hard to credit a coach who doesn't coach. Anything good happening is despite him.

 

[Ironmanrulez]

We don't need to rehash this. Five years from now I'll be right.

This team hasn't just proven my doubts right constantly, they routinely show I've been too optimistic about them.

Serious question. Do you have a source inside the org? I mean a lifelong season ticket holder could get some insight over the years. At least in Germany you get to know staff members when you near enough the Club. At least in the 80s and 90s. Now maybe not so much.

 

[Ironmanrulez]

I am with you that people expecting Hayes, TK, Laughton,TDA, Provy, Hart, Sanheim, etc all gone in one offseason are being unrealistic. To me, they are still in phase 1 of this thing through this season (evaluating players they have,moving guys out,gaining assets, drafting high)...so guys continuing to be moved out leading up to june is fine with me.

BUT i get the frustration too bc Briere clearly prioritized moving out guys Torts doesnt like and those were the guys with no value this offseason. Which fine, if hes comitited to continuing to move guys out ove the next year its not a big deal, but I like many am not convinced he will.

I love TK, but in a true rebuild hes a prime trade candidate. They have tons of RW depth, he would get you valuable assets in return, and you avoid giving him a massive contract in 2 years. Again, he could move him this year and all is well...but it comes back to the torts thing. If TK is not traded simply bc Torts "likes him"....thats a problem. Same with Laughton. I know theyre obsessed with their "culture" bs... but a guys "lockeroom presence" is never ever worth more than 1st round picks in a rebuild.

Bottom line: People will be skeptical until guys like TK and Laughton get moved. If Briere fails to do so, then it is clear this team is willing to make poor roster decisions and sacrifice assets and cap space in the name of "culture"...which is why this org can never build a winner.

For me its not about moving all players in one offseason. Its move players who are worth anything to get better picks from the trade and get worse on the ice to get better draft picks at the end of the season. So its a win win mentality. But the flyers trade worthless players for worthless.return and sign players who help being better on the ice to get worse Draftpicks at the end of the season. Its stupid

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I can tell you how it happens, some players have an entitlement attitude, especially offense first players, and hate having their mistakes pointed out and being expected to play fundamentally sound hockey and give consistent effort. A lot of these players wouldn't last two weeks in a NFL training camp. You think Jeff Stoutland coddles his O-linemen?

In the Eagles’ offensive-line room, the players sit in office chairs in front of a big screen as Stoutland presides over film critiques and fires questions at players, a process he refers to as “cold calling.” “I’m telling you, it’s stressful,” Mailata says. “It goes like: ‘Mailata! What are you going to do when this happens?’ You have to have no excuses. You get the wrong answer, and your ass is going to get chewed.”

Can the N.F.L. Turn a 360-Pound Rugby Player Into a Football Star? (Published 2019)

Jordan Mailata had never played football before the Eagles drafted him last year. Now he has to prove himself in one of the sport’s most technically demanding positions

www.nytimes.com

Sanheim should stop whining and work his ass off this summer, b/c the league doesn't consider him worthy of his new contract (no takers).
Ignore last season, the two previous seasons he was 67th among D-men in pp/60 (5x5). Point is, even before his off season, he wasn't a top offensive defenseman, and no one sees him as a top defensive defenseman. So 8x$6.25M is a lot of money for a 2nd pair D-man. If he's unhappy, waive his NTC and I'm sure Briere will try to find a taker.

I figure the unhappy forward is Allison and/or Laczynski. Torts is trying to save Allison's career, b/c he just doesn't have good vision and needs to play a power game and leave the pretty passes to skilled players. Torts rode him for making too many bad East-West passes that got intercepted. "A man's got to know his limitations." Laczynski once showed promise, but can't stay healthy, and isn't talented enough to play dinged.

Oh no no no no no. Jeff Stoutland has emotional intelligence. He has a downright fatherly relationship with many of his players. There’s unmitigated praise in there to balance the aggression. Hell, one of his favorite sayings is, “No one man is an island, we need each other.” Every coach has former players who praise them, but specifically look at what they say about about Stoutland. They invariably mention that they all know he cares deeply about them as people.

John Tortorella is just a bully who has excuses made for him because he won a Cup 20 years ago.

I cannot think of a better example of exactly how the Flyers are lost than equating these two. Because they probably would agree with you.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Oh no no no no no. Jeff Stoutland has emotional intelligence. He has a downright fatherly relationship with many of his players. There’s unmitigated praise in there to balance the aggression. Hell, one of his favorite sayings is, “No one man is an island, we need each other.” Every coach has former players who praise them, but specifically look at what they say about about Stoutland. They invariably mention that they all know he cares deeply about them as people.

John Tortorella is just a bully who has excuses made for him because he won a Cup 20 years ago.

I cannot think of a better example of exactly how the Flyers are lost than equating these two. Because they probably would agree with you.

And the biggest difference...Stoutland consistently delivers results every.single.year.

Tortorella won a Cup before the salary cap existed. They're just so effing different.

 

[VladDrag]

Oh no no no no no. Jeff Stoutland has emotional intelligence. He has a downright fatherly relationship with many of his players. There’s unmitigated praise in there to balance the aggression. Hell, one of his favorite sayings is, “No one man is an island, we need each other.” Every coach has former players who praise them, but specifically look at what they say about about Stoutland. They invariably mention that they all know he cares deeply about them as people.

John Tortorella is just a bully who has excuses made for him because he won a Cup 20 years ago.

I cannot think of a better example of exactly how the Flyers are lost than equating these two. Because they probably would agree with you.

Fun fact - I met Jordan Mailata a few weeks ago at a random rugby league event in Delaware a few weeks ago. He stopped by with one of a friend of a friend (who is of Maori decent). I had no idea they knew each other. Jordan was awesome. I got a picture with him, chatted with him a bit. The dude is gigantic.

 

[tucson83]

And the biggest difference...Stoutland consistently delivers results every.single.year.

Tortorella won a Cup before the salary cap existed. They're just so effing different.

ask yourself, you really think any great coaches from contending teams last year would come here to a rebuilding team? you are telling me you would rather have another rookie coach that has no great background screws up this prospect pool and have another 10 to 15 years of frustrating hockey all because you dont like coaches that are tough on players?

 

[deadhead]

Oh no no no no no. Jeff Stoutland has emotional intelligence. He has a downright fatherly relationship with many of his players. There’s unmitigated praise in there to balance the aggression. Hell, one of his favorite sayings is, “No one man is an island, we need each other.” Every coach has former players who praise them, but specifically look at what they say about about Stoutland. They invariably mention that they all know he cares deeply about them as people.

John Tortorella is just a bully who has excuses made for him because he won a Cup 20 years ago.

I cannot think of a better example of exactly how the Flyers are lost than equating these two. Because they probably would agree with you.

Stoutland also aggressively weeds out players who can't handle his pressure, they've already cut Reid. He doesn't accept excuses for nonperformance.
The players who remain love him, but partially b/c they're the ones who appreciate that his "tough love" made them better. Self-selection.

Trots could use a Dale Carnegie course, but he's not the monster as advertised:

6/20/21, after he was fired from Carolina and the expectation was he'd never coach again. So players could be honest.

Tortorella: In the Words of His Players - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

Former Blue Jackets coach John Tortorella, vilified by the media, beloved by his players.

thehockeywriters.com

Go google "Tortorella and former players" - most of his former players (the ones that survive his gauntlet) speak highly of him. Similar to Stoutland, they felt he cared about them as people, and appreciate being pushed to get better.

One thing that impressed me is he had a reputation for treating the "little people" in the organization with respect, to me a better standard of decency than kow towing to a star's ego.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

ask yourself, you really think any great coaches from contending teams last year would come here to a rebuilding team? you are telling me you would rather have another rookie coach that has no great background screws up this prospect pool and have another 10 to 15 years of frustrating hockey all because you dont like coaches that are tough on players?

Listen, all I'm saying is that Tortorella wasn't the right hire when he was hired - and he still isn't the right hire. Many of us didn't like it at the time. This isn't revisionist history.

I'd rather have a coach who doesn't have horribly toxic attributes like Torts, especially now that he's apparently getting his grubby fingers involved in actual personnel decisions at the GM level. That's no good for this team and I know this to be true.

 

[deadhead]

All coaches with any amount of pull are involved with personnel decisions to some extent.
As they should be, why would you want to add players who don't fit a coach's scheme or lack the intangibles that a coach values?

From all accounts, it's not about Briere deferring to Torts, it's Briere and Torts basically on the same page.
Torts loved players like Briere, fiesty talented players who rose to the occasion. Which is why he made TK the centerpiece of the team last season.
And Briere played for a number of teams, both rebuilding and playoff teams, and understands the importance of team chemistry.

I think they're both focused on culture, not "Flyers culture," but winning culture: accountability, work ethic, motor.
Briere certainly doesn't care about size, neither does Torts, given his history, that's become a fan fetish around here, divorced from reality.
But both men care about players with an "edge," who hate to lose, who do the extra things on and off the ice needed to win.

I think Briere would like Torts to be more tactful, but also supports him pushing players to get better, to see who responds (and has upside) and who would rather go somewhere else so they can glide through their career. This makes Briere's job easier, because players sort themselves out. The guys who don't like being pushed, who resist change (my way got me my contract), will be gone.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Stoutland also aggressively weeds out players who can't handle his pressure, they've already cut Reid. He doesn't accept excuses for nonperformance.
The players who remain love him, but partially b/c they're the ones who appreciate that his "tough love" made them better. Self-selection.

Trots could use a Dale Carnegie course, but he's not the monster as advertised:

6/20/21, after he was fired from Carolina and the expectation was he'd never coach again. So players could be honest.

Tortorella: In the Words of His Players - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

Former Blue Jackets coach John Tortorella, vilified by the media, beloved by his players.

thehockeywriters.com

Go google "Tortorella and former players" - most of his former players (the ones that survive his gauntlet) speak highly of him. Similar to Stoutland, they felt he cared about them as people, and appreciate being pushed to get better.

One thing that impressed me is he had a reputation for treating the "little people" in the organization with respect, to me a better standard of decency than kow towing to a star's ego.

I’m not sure I buy that there was nothing to lose because we know how the NHL works. Some people will hold those comments against you.

There’s not one quote in that article about caring about them as people. They said he helped them grow as people, which is a completely different topic.

Again, I feel as if Tortorella has positives he brings to the table, unlike AV or Therrien. It’s just that he can’t help but torpedo himself eventually.

 

[Curufinwe]

Fun fact - I met Jordan Mailata a few weeks ago at a random rugby league event in Delaware a few weeks ago. He stopped by with one of a friend of a friend (who is of Maori decent). I had no idea they knew each other. Jordan was awesome. I got a picture with him, chatted with him a bit. The dude is gigantic.

I didn't even know they had rugby league in Delaware. I knew there was rugby here.

ask yourself, you really think any great coaches from contending teams last year would come here to a rebuilding team? you are telling me you would rather have another rookie coach that has no great background screws up this prospect pool and have another 10 to 15 years of frustrating hockey all because you dont like coaches that are tough on players?

Torts is more likely to screw up the young players on the Flyers than any rookie coach. He's an arrogant dinosaur with months left in his coaching career. The idea that Torts is setting up the team to be successful for the next 10-15 years is utterly ridiculous.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Serious question. Do you have a source inside the org? I mean a lifelong season ticket holder could get some insight over the years. At least in Germany you get to know staff members when you near enough the Club. At least in the 80s and 90s. Now maybe not so much.

No. I'm just running off of their patterns. They're really predictable.

 

[VladDrag]

I didn't even know they had rugby league in Delaware. I knew there was rugby here.

I played international rugby league for the USA, back in my day.

But in general, rugby league has a very small following in the USA. There are clubs in Delaware NYC, Boston, and Virginia. Then, there are 4 or 5 clubs in Florida and one in Atlanta. There are a few other areas in the country that play - I think there are a few in California, and a few in the mid-west. Chicago has a small following from my understanding.

There used to be a few clubs in the area, Glen Mills had a team, Philly had a team, Bucks County had a team, but since 7's became an Olympic sport, it's eaten away at some of the players. Both 7's and league are played in the summer. It used to be that the forwards who had no business playing 7s would play rugby league in the summer, but now 7s is so popular. They all play in the social divisions of the tournaments.