2023-24 Roster Thread 2: The Days Get Longer Edition

[blackjackmulligan]

I actually don't mind the patience. Guys like Hayes and TDA should be moved once a decent offer is on the table...but TK, Hart, Laughton, Sanheim, etc have actual value that needs to he maximized. If the market isnt there this summer, it might be better at the TDL.

The selling phase of this rebuild needs to last longer than just this summer.

it does need to be maximized. not saying give them away. My prefere is to move them during the summer as long as the value is good coming back. I do not think any team is going to overpay or offer you this massive deal. Too much can go wrong waiting.

I also think they want to keep them now to see what kind of start they get off too October. With cam and Sean back they still probably believe to some extent they can make the playoffs.

What value do you think Sanheim has at this time?

 

[deadhead]

it does need to be maximized. not saying give them away. My prefere is to move them during the summer as long as the value is good coming back. I do not think any team is going to overpay or offer you this massive deal. Too much can go wrong waiting.

I also think they want to keep them now to see what kind of start they get off too October. With cam and Sean back they still probably believe to some extent they can make the playoffs.

What value do you think Sanheim has at this time?

Briere has made it clear that's exactly what they're not doing, they are rebuilding, they don't want to repeat the last decade of making the playoffs every other year and getting booted after the 1st rd, 2nd rd if they're lucky.

But trades are tricky, last year there was only one trade of players for picks the couple weeks before the draft, then 4 or 5 on draft day.
So you have to be patient, unless you want to conduct a fire sale.

 

[FlyerNutter]

I actually don't mind the patience. Guys like Hayes and TDA should be moved once a decent offer is on the table...but TK, Hart, Laughton, Sanheim, etc have actual value that needs to he maximized. If the market isnt there this summer, it might be better at the TDL.

The selling phase of this rebuild needs to last longer than just this summer.

Appreciate the thoughts, although I strongly disagree.

What the Flyers continually fail to value, and the last year is such a perfect example - is the organizational benefit to entering a season with assets sold off prior to its start point.

An extra 8 losses goes a long way between picking 7th, or closer to the top of the draft. A scouting department that has struggled to find elite talent, and a developmental staff that has been highly questionable - needs all the help it can get.

They need to sell this summer, and be committed to the 2024 draft from game 1 next season.

It was an unforgivable sin they not only chose to sit on Sanheim, but to extend him. Chose to sit on Provorov, TK, and Laughton all year long.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Briere has made it clear that's exactly what they're not doing, they are rebuilding, they don't want to repeat the last decade of making the playoffs every other year and getting booted after the 1st rd, 2nd rd if they're lucky.

But trades are tricky, last year there was only one trade of players for picks the couple weeks before the draft, then 4 or 5 on draft day.
So you have to be patient, unless you want to conduct a fire sale.

what he says is meaningless as they get no benefit of the doubt. They want to win, stay competitive, yet rebuild at the same time. Makes total sense to me

Trades are not tricky like want to believe.

 

[Adam Warlock]

it does need to be maximized. not saying give them away. My prefere is to move them during the summer as long as the value is good coming back. I do not think any team is going to overpay or offer you this massive deal. Too much can go wrong waiting.

I also think they want to keep them now to see what kind of start they get off too October. With cam and Sean back they still probably believe to some extent they can make the playoffs.

What value do you think Sanheim has at this time?

But you dont know what hes being offered. Hes a new GM and other GMs know hes anxious to make moves...so im sure hes not getting fair offers right now. So ultimately...if hes not getting a fair offer for someone like TK, would you still move him?

Fletcher constantly smelled of desperation and othe GMs took advantage. Briere seems like hes not getting sucked into that, which i dont think is a bad thing.

I think Sanheim holds value. His contract is what youd have to pay anyway. I could see a team like vancouver who may want a long term partner for hughes as having interest.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

But you dont know what hes being offered. Hes a new GM and other GMs know hes anxious to make moves...so im sure hes not getting fair offers right now. So ultimately...if hes not getting a fair offer for someone like TK, would you still move him?

Fletcher constantly smelled of desperation and othe GMs took advantage. Briere seems like hes not getting sucked into that, which i dont think is a bad thing.

I think Sanheim holds value. His contract is what youd have to pay anyway. I could see a team like vancouver who may want a long term partner for hughes as having interest.

you tell me I dont know whats being offered yet your so sure he is not getting fair offers!!! I said I do not give them away.

Would move Sanheim with that contract in a heartbeat.

 

[Adam Warlock]

Appreciate the thoughts, although I strongly disagree.

What the Flyers continually fail to value, and the last year is such a perfect example - is the organizational benefit to entering a season with assets sold off prior to its start point.

An extra 8 losses goes a long way between picking 7th, or closer to the top of the draft. A scouting department that has struggled to find elite talent, and a developmental staff that has been highly questionable - needs all the help it can get.

They need to sell this summer, and be committed to the 2024 draft from game 1 next season.

It was an unforgivable sin they not only chose to sit on Sanheim, but to extend him. Chose to sit on Provorov, TK, and Laughton all year long.

I am always torn with this because I dont think briere is wrong when saying entering a season with the intention of losing is not a great environmemt to develop players in. Selling off your entire roster and forcing guys like Tippett, Foerester, York, Farabee, Frost, etc to get spanked every night isnt ideal.

That said, I think when you look at last season they couldve had it both ways. Had they sold at the deadline and gave sandstrom more starts, they never wouldve had that stupid win streak down the stretch which cost them a top 5 pick.

 

[Adam Warlock]

you tell me I dont know whats being offered yet your so sure he is not getting fair offers!!! I said I do not give them away.

Would move Sanheim with that contract in a heartbeat.

I dont know what the offers are but he pulled the trigger on the provy deal...so so far hes not afraid to make a deal if the values there. I dont see why itd be different if he got a fair offer for TK.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

I dont know what the offers are but he pulled the trigger on the provy deal...so so far hes not afraid to make a deal if the values there. I dont see why itd be different if he got a fair offer for TK.

he got fair offer for Laughton and didnt pull the trigger.

 

[FlyerNutter]

I am always torn with this because I dont think briere is wrong when saying entering a season with the intention of losing is not a great environmemt to develop players in. Selling off your entire roster and forcing guys like Tippett, Foerester, York, Farabee, Frost, etc to get spanked every night isnt ideal.

That said, I think when you look at last season they couldve had it both ways. Had they sold at the deadline and gave sandstrom more starts, they never wouldve had that stupid win streak down the stretch which cost them a top 5 pick.

I actually don’t fully disagree here. I don’t think it’s a great environment.

Im not high on Lappy but the next 2-3 I wouldn’t be calling up to promote kids if able. Leave them in the AHL, or their junior teams.

Im not handcuffing the franchise from the top of the draft because of Foerster, Frost, York, or Tippet when the latter 3 are likely just more of the same - nice average secondary pieces.

 

[Curufinwe]

he got fair offer for Laughton and didnt pull the trigger.

Fletcher got that offer at the 2021 trade deadline.

A fair offer for Laughton now is a mid 1st and a 2nd.

 

[deadhead]

Briere has to be patient b/c GMs are going to test him, try and take advantage of the new boy on the block.
When he makes it clear he won't sell low, the offers will improve.

It's a balance, you want to garner young assets, but you don't want to put them in an awful situation (see Buffalo the last decade) that may cause them to regress.

And you want prospects as well as draft picks, you have better information on 20 year olds playing in the AHL/SHL than 18 year olds in the CHL.
But if you hit on those prospects, then you may have worse draft position next year, but those are "rich people" problems.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Appreciate the thoughts, although I strongly disagree.

What the Flyers continually fail to value, and the last year is such a perfect example - is the organizational benefit to entering a season with assets sold off prior to its start point.

An extra 8 losses goes a long way between picking 7th, or closer to the top of the draft. A scouting department that has struggled to find elite talent, and a developmental staff that has been highly questionable - needs all the help it can get.

They need to sell this summer, and be committed to the 2024 draft from game 1 next season.

It was an unforgivable sin they not only chose to sit on Sanheim, but to extend him. Chose to sit on Provorov, TK, and Laughton all year long.

you guys need to let go of the idea this Org. is rebuilding..

they are gunna swap a few bodies for similar type Torts bodies and consider the "rebuild" done..

Briere has already stated he isnt planning to tank but instead wants to stay competitive..

he is literaly following the EXACT same mold every previous GM has followed. which leads to nowere ville...

 

[Deadpool8812]

you guys need to let go of the idea this Org. is rebuilding..

they are gunna swap a few bodies for similar type Torts bodies and consider the "rebuild" done..

Briere has already stated he isnt planning to tank but instead wants to stay competitive..

he is literaly following the EXACT same mold every previous GM has followed. which leads to nowere ville...

Well, he did just trade this team's #1 defenseman for futures. And the rumours of Hayes, Laughton and even Hart and Konecny being traded would say that Briere is looking to rebuild regardless of what he said. Most team's aren't going to come out and admit they are tanking

 

[renberg]

Staying competitive while re-whatevering is important. The club doesn’t want to let in an atmosphere of hopelessness. That kills growth for the players.

 

[deadhead]

There's a difference between wanting to be competitive, i.e., a team that shows up every night, and actually competing.

 

[Magua]

Competitiveness and competence are two separate things. You can be competently uncompetitive and incompetently competitive.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Laughton is a fine player, but I’m fine being on an island with some of these valuations. I still don’t buy that his value should have gone up since 2021. It might have done so, which is a different discussion. It feels as if consensus among the fanbase values him with the Tampa-style cap premium baked in already. That could happen. I don’t think it’s a lock.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Laughton is a fine player, but I’m fine being on an island with some of these valuations. I still don’t buy that his value should have gone up since 2021. It might have done so, which is a different discussion. It feels as if consensus among the fanbase values him with the Tampa-style cap premium baked in already. That could happen. I don’t think it’s a lock.

Fortunately I think there’s still a decent amount of Front Offices that don’t really do deep dives on these things or at least don’t listen to the people that do. So I do think there might be a team out there that just sees a career high in points last year with his reputation as a gritty player & that’s enough for them with what you said about his current contract. Hell the Flyers themselves could even be one of them!

As an analytic mindset though yeah Laughton is probably not a stock you want to invest in at this point.

 

[deadhead]

It's unlikely any player's stock will decline between now and draft day, but if a couple FAs sign with their current team, their value might increase.
So there's no reason for Briere to panic and sell, except that we're all going stir crazy waiting for something to happen.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Fortunately I think there’s still a decent amount of Front Offices that don’t really do deep dives on these things or at least don’t listen to the people that do. So I do think there might be a team out there that just sees a career high in points last year with his reputation as a gritty player & that’s enough for them with what you said about his current contract. Hell the Flyers themselves could even be one of them!

As an analytic mindset though yeah Laughton is probably not a stock you want to invest in at this point.

I get it. I really do. But at this point, you’d have to believe he had his breakout in his age TWENTY EIGHT season. I think Holland knows better than that. Benning…maybe.

Can you believe I’m giving NHL GMs credit like this?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I get it. I really do. But at this point, you’d have to believe he had his breakout in his age TWENTY EIGHT season. I think Holland knows better than that. Benning…maybe.

Can you believe I’m giving NHL GMs credit like this?

I don’t necessarily think that I just think they think he’s still a really good depth piece & last season further validates that to them. It’s tough to say but I wouldn’t doubt if they had some pretty good offers on the table two years ago & possibly what they’re getting now might not be that. But I still think there’s value to be had with Laughton. I still think you could get a first rounder for him even if it’s towards the back of the first round.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I don’t necessarily think that I just think they think he’s still a really good depth piece & last season further validates that to them. It’s tough to say but I wouldn’t doubt if they had some pretty good offers on the table two years ago & possibly what they’re getting now might not be that. But I still think there’s value to be had with Laughton. I still think you could get a first rounder for him even if it’s towards the back of the first round.

A late 1st is a perfectly fine capstone. I’ve just seen multiple reasonable people add a real piece to that. I have no idea how you get there unless it’s a Tampa premium.

 

[TheKingPin]

What good could possibly come of Briere stating publicly that he is actively shopping specific players?

I do not understand this expectation in the slightest.

Nothing good can come of it.

He’s plenty capable of talking all the names he wants in private conversations with teams.

And I’m sure teams are plenty aware of where he stands without him blabbing everything to reporters.

That line of thinking has been proven wrong over and over again the last several administrations. I do think this could be different as Briere seems smarter than the last crews, but we just have to wait and see.

Hayes is a goner, but anyone else big trader on top of that signals they are saying and doing the right things.

 

[BernieParent]

Do people that only like one sport exist?

That’s terrifying to me.

What other sport is there? I am still bitter about losing my local MLB team, have never been able to get into the NFL, the local CFL team is uninspiring, and basketball and soccer are boring.