2023-24 Roster Thread 1: Entering the Starting Gate

[kudymen]

How they describe him at every turn, along with the other shooting archetypes they picked who are not as well-rounded and might not (or will not) reach expectations. Broken clocks, man.

Shooting is THE least important trait to look for in a prospect because it is THE hardest trait to project. It's a quality I'd mention in the postscript. The road to acquiring snipers in the draft is littered with busts because goaltending and chance creation changes dramatically in the NHL.

But Pavel Brendl or Puljujarvi

 

[DancingPanther]

How they describe him at every turn, along with the other shooting archetypes they picked who are not as well-rounded and might not (or will not) reach expectations. Broken clocks, man.

Shooting is THE least important trait to look for in a prospect because it is THE hardest trait to project. It's a quality I'd mention in the postscript. The road to acquiring snipers in the draft is littered with busts because goaltending and chance creation changes dramatically in the NHL.

Plus you simply don't need an above average shot to score in the NHL. If you're quick enough, instinctive enough, and decisive enough you'll be able to get to goal scoring areas where you won't need to rattle a puck all along the corner post to score. Most goals are scored not because of the shot but because of the play. Speed/quickness, hands, and hockey IQ contribute to the play.

It's gotta be about there, but I wonder how many goals are "stolen" by the shooter each season by sniping from a low(er) percentage spot on the ice? That would be quantitatively analyzing how important "sniping" is. I would anticipate it being relatively low, overselling the antiquated idea of snipers yet again

 

[mja]

Usually the best players in the league tend to be the guys who process the game more quickly than everyone else and then have the skill to make plays. I'd try to draft that over physical specimens and/or snipers.

 

[Beef Invictus]

"York is already better than Sanheim" based on an outlier year

 

[deadhead]

Plus you simply don't need an above average shot to score in the NHL. If you're quick enough, instinctive enough, and decisive enough you'll be able to get to goal scoring areas where you won't need to rattle a puck all along the corner post to score. Most goals are scored not because of the shot but because of the play. Speed/quickness, hands, and hockey IQ contribute to the play.

It's gotta be about there, but I wonder how many goals are "stolen" by the shooter each season by sniping from a low(er) percentage spot on the ice? That would be quantitatively analyzing how important "sniping" is. I would anticipate it being relatively low, overselling the antiquated idea of snipers yet again

You need both. A really good sniper can beat good goalies, how often do you see a playmaker set up an average shooter and he can't get the shot off quickly or fires wide? The ability to shoot quickly, accurately and with some velocity allows you not just to beat goalies, but get the puck on net and create opportunities for "scorers." But it also means a sniper has to learn to set up defensemen to avoid his shot getting blocked and using defensemen as screens.

And getting into goal scoring areas requires, uh, "strength," because you're going to be playing in traffic and get bumped around. Not take on behemouths along the board strength, but the ability to anchor and make plays through contact. Quickness, agility, vision and most of all, good strong hands b/c a lot of stick checking in crowds. There are a few undersized guys like Caufield who have exceptional quickness and can compensate for lack of size but they're rare - one reason I look forward to seeing Gendron in the AHL to gauge if he's for real.

To me, the ideal line has a playmaker, a sniper and a "mucker." The mucker retrieves pucks along the boards and goes to the net to set screens and score in the dirty areas - Lindblom was learning to excel in that role when cancer struck.

 

[renberg]

Two “Ifs”: (1) if Patrick had been healthy and played at the level that Hirschier has, Hextall might still be the GM here. (2) if Hextall had done due diligence on Patrick’s health background and passed on NP for Makar, …..
I believe that Hextall was too close the the Patrick clan to have been in a position to make an honest evaluation of Nolan’s situation. It can’t be ignored that that one **** up has set this franchise back a decade.

 

[Curufinwe]

Hextall was given the permission to rebuild (though two years late, Holmgren should have started after the Carter/Richards trade), and made some good trades to start the process. His drafting was middle of the road, but the pro acquisitions were bad. He didn't have a lot of money his first couple years, but even then he didn't find many bargains (look at Carolina, for example). And while he was good at trading for draft picks, he wasn't good at using draft picks to acquire players (look at Colorado and Florida).

Fletcher overpaid Hayes (but pre-COVID contracts all looked bad with a flat cap), Niskanen and Braun were good moves, then he did little until the summer of 2021, when he seemed to panic, and basically placated AV. Dumping Ghost was pointless, especially when you use the cap room to overpay for Risto. Voracek for Atkinson was fine. The real problem at that point was the FO insistence on an aggressive reload, an honest look at the roster and you knew the gig was up unless Hart did his best Lundqvist.

Pro scouting seems to be the primary issue, they just don't identify good trade targets or waiver wire bargains. They brought in a lot of cheap FAs who flopped, Brassard was the best of the group under Fletcher, PEB under Hextall. But remember tonight, that Hextall traded Cousins for a 5th rd pick.

He traded him because of the expansion draft.

Remember, you are hopeless at this.

 

[deadhead]

Two “Ifs”: (1) if Patrick had been healthy and played at the level that Hirschier has, Hextall might still be the GM here. (2) if Hextall had done due diligence on Patrick’s health background and passed on NP for Makar, …..
I believe that Hextall was too close the the Patrick clan to have been in a position to make an honest evaluation of Nolan’s situation. It can’t be ignored that that one **** up has set this franchise back a decade.

They may have also gotten lucky in the sense that a healthy Patrick would have allowed them to remain in the "twilight zone," competitive enough to make the playoffs but not good enough to ever get past the second round and eventually age out as they pick in the late teens and 20s. That is, what they did for most of the last decade.

It took hitting rock bottom for the organization to finally commit to the rebuild that should have started in 2012.

 

[Beef Invictus]

They're not rebuilding.

 

[The Madrigal]

Step 1 of the rebuild

Walk - JVR, Lemieux, Braun

Trade - Hayes, Provorov, Deangelo

Trade for the right price - Hart, TK

Stuck with (bad contract) - Risto, Sanheim, Deslauriers

 

[FLYguy3911]

Looks like more than one step.

 

[The Madrigal]

Looks like more than one step.

It's going to be a multi-year process. The first step is getting rid of players who are overrated, not that good, and/or don't fit in with the culture or in the case of Hart and TK potentially not into the timeline of a rebuild. Although I would argue at this point that Hart isn't the player everyone thought he was a few years ago.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Two “Ifs”: (1) if Patrick had been healthy and played at the level that Hirschier has, Hextall might still be the GM here. (2) if Hextall had done due diligence on Patrick’s health background and passed on NP for Makar, …..
I believe that Hextall was too close the the Patrick clan to have been in a position to make an honest evaluation of Nolan’s situation. It can’t be ignored that that one **** up has set this franchise back a decade.

I kinda think that if Patrick had worked out and was a 60-80 pt player the Flyers would be in a worse position in that they would be perennial first round fodder as a low seed. A rebuild has been needed for 10 years and this is the closest we’ve ever been to one

 

[Tripod]

Hmm...wonder who gets te blame if...ok when Briere trades for or signs a garbage player? Him? Or Torts because Torts certainly has a big say in what they want to add.

 

[deadhead]

Hmm...wonder who gets tbe blame of...OK when Briere trades for or signs a garbage player? Him? Or Torts because Torts certainly has a big say in what they want to add.

Maybe we wait and see what Briere does?
And if you pay nothing for a "garbage" player, big deal. With any luck you can flip them for a draft pick at the TDL.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Hmm...wonder who gets tbe blame of...OK when Briere trades for or signs a garbage player? Him? Or Torts because Torts certainly has a big say in what they want to add.

Fletcher.

 

[freakydallas13]

Fletcher.

Hextall.

 

[Tripod]

Maybe we wait and see what Briere does?
And if you pay nothing for a "garbage" player, big deal. With any luck you can flip them for a draft pick at the TDL.

Weird....you didn't think that about Hextalls acquisitions.

 

[deadhead]

Weird....you didn't think that about Hextalls acquisitions.

After his first couple years, he stopped flipping them or they weren't good enough to flip.
The "garbage" he flipped were acquired by other people.

 

[Coffee]

Would you guys do 11th overall + Boeser for Konecny?

Vancouver’s new system needs speed, Boeser is slow.

Let me know your thoughts, cheers

 

[deadhead]

Would you guys do 11th overall + Boeser for Konecny?

Vancouver’s new system needs speed, Boeser is slow.

Let me know your thoughts, cheers

Only if we can find a third team to give us another 1st + for Boeser.
We have plenty of RWs - even without TK, Foerster, Atkinson, Tippett, Allison, Brink.

 

[TB87]

This reads like a Jordan Hall propaganda piece. There (generally) aren’t many of those from ASF:

Flyers' "New Era of Orange" Will Be Unlike Any in Franchise History

Danny Briere had seen this tactic before. A veteran reporter asking him one question where the answer is known to set up another question where the answer isn’t as clear. So, on the day he was officially announced as the new GM of the Philadelphia Flyers along with longtime broadcaster Keith...

www.crossingbroad.com

 

[deadhead]

ASF knows these guys, same with Charlie, both respect and like Briere and Jones.
Doesn't mean it'll work, but you could say the same about any group that wasn't the Hockey Guy norm.
You know, like hiring a Jewish Lawyer who never played football to GM a NFL team - obviously that could never work.
Nah, what you need is to bring in a guy who's rebuilt a team to (3) 100+ point seasons and have 3 ex-GMs, including a Cup winner, to advise him.

I'd say Briere is no more risky than Sakic or Shanahan when they were initially hired, that Jones is no more risky than Tallon, and so on.

In the same way, Tulsky is no slam dunk, one thing to be the assistant, but you don't know how big a role he actually played.

I have no idea what Jones really thinks, there's the media shtick, but that may not be the same as the guy behind closed doors being the boss instead of placating his bosses. He may well have strong opinions that he didn't express while a color man.

I have no idea how sharp Briere is, but he did impress high level corporate executives enough to hand him the keys to the future of their billion plus investment.

In the end it'll come down to what they do and how they do it.
What make me optimistic is their strategy seems sound, they know it's a long-term proposition, they don't want to take short-cuts.
Whether they can execute that strategy?????

 

[Striiker]

DUMBEST HUMAN ALIVE

 

[renberg]

ASF knows these guys, same with Charlie, both respect and like Briere and Jones.
Doesn't mean it'll work, but you could say the same about any group that wasn't the Hockey Guy norm.
You know, like hiring a Jewish Lawyer who never played football to GM a NFL team - obviously that could never work.
Nah, what you need is to bring in a guy who's rebuilt a team to (3) 100+ point seasons and have 3 ex-GMs, including a Cup winner, to advise him.

I'd say Briere is no more risky than Sakic or Shanahan when they were initially hired, that Jones is no more risky than Tallon, and so on.

In the same way, Tulsky is no slam dunk, one thing to be the assistant, but you don't know how big a role he actually played.

I have no idea what Jones really thinks, there's the media shtick, but that may not be the same as the guy behind closed doors being the boss instead of placating his bosses. He may well have strong opinions that he didn't express while a color man.

I have no idea how sharp Briere is, but he did impress high level corporate executives enough to hand him the keys to the future of their billion plus investment.

In the end it'll come down to what they do and how they do it.
What make me optimistic is their strategy seems sound, they know it's a long-term proposition, they don't want to take short-cuts.
Whether they can execute that strategy?????

The Jones analysis is spot on. When he does Flyer broadcasts he’s one thing; company guy and sort of dull. On TNT he shows a sharper feel for players and the game.