2023-24 Roster Thread 1: Entering the Starting Gate

[Ghosts Beer]

Saying the Flyers should know that Pronger would suffer a freak accident injury is a joke. You can't truthfully think that's a valid argument point.

The cap blunders yes Clarke, Holmgren, Hextall and Fletcher all made them with Hanrahan's help.

The Pronger over-35 contract was a mistake.

It was a front-loaded 7-year deal in an effort to circumvent the cap. They didn't expect him to play through age 42. They anticipated him retiring sooner.

They didn't know the rule and got embarrassed.

Hence, it is another example of an error made by their contract and cap expert.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The Pronger over-35 contract was a mistake.

It was a front-loaded 7-year deal in an effort to circumvent the cap. They didn't expect him to play through age 42. They anticipated him retiring sooner.

They didn't know the rule and got embarrassed.

Hence, it is another example of an error made by their contract and cap expert.

Yep. The whole "clever" point of the thing wasn't clever at all, because things didn't work the way they thought things worked.

 

[Curufinwe]

If the former idiot GM would have traded JVR and Braun at the deadline this wouldn’t be an issue. But here we are.

I don’t think that’s true. They still had $20m on IR and LTIR

 

[scumpup]

How boot that Conny Bedard kid eh? kid is a demon with the puck! Ol' Gary Beezer wool get em for us.

 

[deadhead]

With Briere.

Not much of merit, except Briere's reason for wanting Torts as HC, he felt the team lacked competitiveness. Coming from CF or Scott, it wouldn't mean anything, but Briere was an undersized guy who played in the dirty areas and understands the price you have to pay. He's realistic, you're not going to have 20 guys with that 'tude, you need a mix when team building.

I think where this will come into play is with players like Gauthier. On some teams, they'd just put him on wing, let him fire away and turn him into a limited 30 goal scorer (Laine). On Torts' Flyers, he'll have to play a two way game to stay at center, he'll have to use his size and speed on the forecheck, and he better skate hard on the back check. He may never be a Selke candidate, but he won't be able to ride a goal scoring streak into slacking off on the other elements of his game.

 

[deadhead]

Interesting comment by Torts on subtraction, "there's a hierarchy in the locker room" getting rid of some veterans allows some young players to step up and assume leadership roles without stepping on toes.

Very realistic about Cates, wants to slot him where he doesn't have to expect offense from him, he'll have more, but he's not going to be a top scorer, wants to use him in situational play.

Want to get younger, also wants to backfill with veteran FAs on low cost contracts to protect the kids and remain competitive. Probably a center who's good at faceoffs, etc.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

Sounds like more or the same

 

[FlyerNutter]

Sounds like more or the same

Hextall’s bullshit retool x2.

Except with “core” pieces that aren’t even as good.

Nobody believes this nonsense, and they are praying Tortorellas bullshit masks their incompetence. Effort, and beer league mantras.

 

[deadhead]

More of what same? They're not signing a JVR or Hayes.

They'll probably take a chance on some marginal veterans with upside and veterans on one year deals who can be flipped at the TDL.

Reality check, when was the last time Flyers (or any other team) got through a season with 12 forwards and 6 D-men? Odds are you'll need 14-15 forwards and 8 D-men.

Key is to sign someone like Seeler, not Connauton, for depth.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

Yes, the key to turning this around is the seelers of the world

 

[deadhead]

Yes, the key to turning this around is the seelers of the world

No, the key to getting value out of marginal veteran signings is to pick the right ones.

No one thinks these signings are needle movers, they're committed to getting younger, but you want some veterans in the clubhouse to provide guidance and fill holes. You just don't want to give those veterans money or term.

 

[renberg]

Interesting comment by Torts on subtraction, "there's a hierarchy in the locker room" getting rid of some veterans allows some young players to step up and assume leadership roles without stepping on toes.

The "vets" on the roster would be Hayes, JVR, Laughton, Deslauriers, TDA, Braun, Provorov, Couturier, and Atkinson. So who are the guys in the locker room that have created this negative hierarchy? From that list Couturier and Atkinson can be subtracted since they weren't around due to injury. Braun is out retired. Deslauriers is the guy that they just decided to give four years. JVR is gone via UFA and has never been a problem with a team. Personally I don't see Laughts as an issue; he was the only guy given a letter on the club. That leaves Hayes, TDA and Provorov.
Tortorella's repeated comments regarding addition by subtraction along with his issues with Hayes gives credence to the Flyers sending him away. Perhaps that reported done deal involving him going to CBJ is a reality. Say "bye" to all three.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

All I know is if the Flyers don’t trade one of their better players for at least an additional 1st in this year’s draft, or a promising prospect, I’ll be pissed. No retool bullshit. There is no short term way to make this team a contender. Moves should be made focusing on ~5 years out. It sucks and will require patience but it will be better than the last decade

 

[deadhead]

Charlie's grades:

Report cards: Grading the Flyers' 2022-23 forwards

Our 2022-23 Flyers report cards kick off with grades for the team's forwards this season.

theathletic.com

Report cards: Grading Flyers' defense, goalies, front office, coaches

The Flyers' defense has plenty of room for improvement but there were positives in goal.

theathletic.com

TK: A- 2.25 pp/60 (5x5) xG impact on playdriving -0.170
Tippett B+ 1.85 +0.144
Cates A- 1.37 +0.182
Laughton B 1.25 +0.073
Frost B 2.02 -0.035
Hayes B- 1.70 -0.044
Farabee C 1.92 -0.108
JVR C- 1.63 +0.280
Lemieux C- 1.67 -0.134
Allison D+ 1.12 -0.005
Deslauriers D+ 0.90 -0.134
Laczynski F 0.62 -0.147
Bellows F 0.72 -0.030

York B- 0.93 +0.252
Seeler B- 0.76 +0.154
Risto C+ 0.57 +0.147
Braun C- 0.18 -0.037
Zamula D+ 1.35 -0.073
Provorov D+ 0.72 -0.243
TDA D+ 0.97 -0.301
Sanheim F 0.78 -0.243

Hart B Goals saved +12.93 (16), Delta Sv% +0.55 (19)
Sandstrom D Goals saved -11.33 (69), Delta Sv% -1.32 (70)
Ersson B Goals saved +2.29, Delta Sv% +0.48

 

[CapnZin]

I disagree with the Sanheim and Allison gradings. Allison is a completely one-dimensional forechecking forward thats a decent 4th line RW. He goes to those “dirty areas” and is only valuable on a league minimum - 950K contract. He could probably top out as a 25 point player that provides good forechecking.

How did we use him? We used him as an on-the-fly defensive winger. A guy with no discernible defensive prowess was mainly used as a defensive winger. I don’t really get that since it doesn’t play into his skill set in the slightest. Then again, we used Deslauries on the PK and York as a PP QB.

 

[Appleyard]

Allison did about as well as a player can given the usage...

no idea why he became a whipping boy when played pretty well in the minutes he played.

Played like a solid 3rd line forward without luck assist wise.

0.72 G.60 (5th on team)
0.96 iXG/60 (4th on team)

48.52 ExGF % (4th on team)
+0.09 ExGF rel (5th on team)

 

[deadhead]

Allison did about as well as a player can given the usage...

no idea why he became a whipping boy when played pretty well in the minutes he played.

Played like a solid 3rd line forward without luck assist wise.

0.72 G.60 (5th on team)
0.96 iXG/60 (4th on team)

48.52 ExGF % (4th on team)
+0.09 ExGF rel (5th on team)

Allison still doesn't look like the player who flashed in a cameo two years ago, the injuries have taken their toll. But he did stay on the ice which is a good sign. Hopefully, with a summer to get healthy he can take a step up next year - but he's not going to play ahead of TK, Atkinson, Foerster or Tippett.

Laczynski is another who was derailed by injuries, he only showed a decent burst for a couple games and then got injured again.

Since they're both 26, they're on the bubble in a rebuild, but lack of depth and low cost will give them a chance to earn PT.

 

[FlyerNutter]

All I know is if the Flyers don’t trade one of their better players for at least an additional 1st in this year’s draft, or a promising prospect, I’ll be pissed. No retool bullshit. There is no short term way to make this team a contender. Moves should be made focusing on ~5 years out. It sucks and will require patience but it will be better than the last decade

They could have had at the very least 3 extra first rounders this season, and maybe a fourth if someone bit on Laughton.

All the while ensuring a better draft position.

No staff turnover aside from Fletcher. Rebuild my ass. Who believes this crap.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

They could have had at the very least 3 extra first rounders this season, and maybe a fourth if someone bit on Laughton.

All the while ensuring a better draft position.

Rebuild my ass. Who believes this crap.

I’m keeping an open mind and seeing how things play out before grabbing my pitchfork. It will always be nearby if I need it. Personally I would be shopping TK hard as I think his value is at the highest it will ever be. Provy is gone I think. I would shop Hart too. Management needs to understand that if the Flyers are going to be a bottom 7 team in the league, it will be better to have higher draft picks and a full cupboard of promising prospects.

 

[FlyerNutter]

I’m keeping an open mind and seeing how things play out before grabbing my pitchfork. It will always be nearby if I need it. Personally I would be shopping TK hard as I think his value is at the highest it will ever be. Provy is gone I think. I would shop Hart too. Management needs to understand that if the Flyers are going to be a bottom 7 team in the league, it will be better to have higher draft picks and a full cupboard of promising prospects.

I'll bet my jiblets that they will not just trade assets for picks, they will want pieces that can play now as well. Need to please the fraud HC.

This isn't going to be a rebuild. Nothing close to it. Friedman mentioned that they need to commit without just stating they will rebuild, stop living in this middle ground. I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Starat327]

The key to getting value out of marginal veterans is to...trade them when they have value. Something this Flyers team has been unwilling to do, despite clearly not being a playoff team, let alone contender.

Forgive me for thinking they'll continue to do so instead of suddenly buck the trend.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

The problem with trading TK for a first is that you’re unlikely to get someone better than TK with that pick.

Maybe, I suppose, if you’re getting a top 5 pick, but no team in the top 5 is going to trade that pick for TK.

Would Columbus if they aren’t picking top 2? That’d be your only very faint hope.

So otherwise what’s the point? TK is still young & should have a bunch of good years left, so I don’t feel compelled to force a trade.

Provorov is the guy you hope to get a mid-1st for, IMO.

And I think Sanheim can net a 1st, even though many seem to think his contract makes him untradable. I don’t agree.

 

[Cody Webster]

Interesting comment by Torts on subtraction, "there's a hierarchy in the locker room" getting rid of some veterans allows some young players to step up and assume leadership roles without stepping on toes.

Very realistic about Cates, wants to slot him where he doesn't have to expect offense from him, he'll have more, but he's not going to be a top scorer, wants to use him in situational play.

Want to get younger, also wants to backfill with veteran FAs on low cost contracts to protect the kids and remain competitive. Probably a center who's good at faceoffs, etc.

Protect the kids

 

[Ghosts Beer]

If Allison is their 4th line RW, fine.

But he didn’t show enough to warrant a top 9 spot on a team with many RWs.

He’s injured often, & he’s invisible often even when he plays.

When he’s on his game he’s pretty fast & can get to pucks & cause turnovers, but I think injuries have made him more reticent, & he does not crash the net enough for a player of his ilk.

So maybe he’s the 4RW, or maybe they decide to go with someone else at 4RW. Either way is fine by me.

 

[FlyerNutter]

The problem with trading TK for a first is that you’re unlikely to get someone better than TK with that pick.

Maybe, I suppose, if you’re getting a top 5 pick, but no team in the top 5 is going to trade that pick for TK.

Would Columbus if they aren’t picking top 2? That’d be your only very faint hope.

So otherwise what’s the point? TK is still young & should have a bunch of good years left, so I don’t feel compelled to force a trade.

Provorov is the guy you hope to get a mid-1st for, IMO.

And I think Sanheim can net a 1st, even though many seem to think his contract makes him untradable. I don’t agree.

Trading guys like that, ensures better draft position. The full benefit isn't just the return for TK but the decrease in goals for.