2023-24 Roster Thread 1: Entering the Starting Gate

[Beef Invictus]

And this is coming out now. I am calling bullshit. A big pile of it.

It's going to be an annual tradition where Clarke watches the playoffs and finds a way to shit on Hextall. What a petty little loser bitch.

 

[ponder719]

Wait, they’re really trying this again?

Yeah, yeah, and we were totally gonna draft the Easter Bunny instead of Adam Ginning, and hookers and beer instead of Friedman, and everyone was gonna get a puppy! But Hextall. It's all his fault. Yeah, that's the ticket!

 

[deadhead]

Frost scored 3 less points that Tipper this season, who management seems to be praising at every turn and saying ENDLESS good things about.

Pretending the Frost double standard doesn't exist is asinine.

Scoring isn't everything, though to some people here it seems to be.
Tippett xGF 49.54%, Frost 47.65%
since Dec 7:
Tippett xGF 52.17%, Frost 49.99%

Tippett makes things happen with his speed and size, Frost is the more polished offensive player.
They were encouraging Tippett to be more aggressive, they wanted Frost to be more consistent.
Tippett got his share of criticism. Both players improved as the season progressed.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Scoring isn't everything, though to some people here it seems to be.
Tippett xGF 49.54%, Frost 47.65%
since Dec 7:
Tippett xGF 52.17%, Frost 49.99%

Tippett makes things happen with his speed and size, Frost is the more polished offensive player.
They were encouraging Tippett to be more aggressive, they wanted Frost to be more consistent.
Tippett got his share of criticism. Both players improved as the season progressed.

Defense also matters, and Frost was better at defense. Weird. Wonder why that context was deleted.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Where are the Flyers getting their core from?

Nothing else matters. Ohh right.

Rebuilding

 

[freakydallas13]

Scoring isn't everything, though to some people here it seems to be.
Tippett xGF 49.54%, Frost 47.65%
since Dec 7:
Tippett xGF 52.17%, Frost 49.99%

Tippett makes things happen with his speed and size, Frost is the more polished offensive player.
They were encouraging Tippett to be more aggressive, they wanted Frost to be more consistent.
Tippett got his share of criticism. Both players improved as the season progressed.

I didn't bring it up to degrade Tippet, he had a good season. So did Frost.

I brought it up to illustrate that the media around this team won't stop talking about how great of a season Tippet had, but Frost's nearly identical season? "Needs improvement" "Gotta be more consistent" "Toilet seat". Etc.

The media has a ridiculous double standard when it comes to these 2 players.

 

[Hextallent63]

Scoring isn't everything, though to some people here it seems to be.
Tippett xGF 49.54%, Frost 47.65%
since Dec 7:
Tippett xGF 52.17%, Frost 49.99%

Tippett makes things happen with his speed and size, Frost is the more polished offensive player.
They were encouraging Tippett to be more aggressive, they wanted Frost to be more consis
Tippett got his share of criticism. Both players improved as the season progressed.

if they gave frost the same opportunity and usage as tippett a few years ago he could very well have turned into a higher ceiling player compared to today.

 

[deadhead]

"The Media."
What exactly is that these days?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

It's strange how defensive people are about Frost.

Frost improved a lot throughout the season, and eclipsed my hope of 40 points, and these things were good to see.

Believing Tippett had the better season isn't a knock on Frost.

IMO, Tippett stood out more, especially against better competition.

Tippett also led the team in shots. Had more points per game than Frost. Had more primary points than Frost.

That's no disrespect to Frost. It's just reality.

I'm glad they both showed growth and reasons for optimism heading into next season.

 

[kudymen]

Invent stuff about posters and then wonder why they are the way I invented. Brilliant. Poor hostage

 

[Tripod]

It's strange how defensive people are about Frost.

Frost improved a lot throughout the season, and eclipsed my hope of 40 points, and these things were good to see.

Believing Tippett had the better season isn't a knock on Frost.

IMO, Tippett stood out more, especially against better competition.

Tippett also led the team in shots. Had more points per game than Frost. Had more primary points than Frost.

That's no disrespect to Frost. It's just reality.

I'm glad they both showed growth and reasons for optimism heading into next season.

It's real simple. All 3 of Cates, Tippett and Frost had good seasons. Yet for some reason, only Frost has been run down by media AND Torts. It's confusing as f*** if you are impartial. We AND they all should be happy with all 3 and hope all 3 take a further step forward next year.

It's just bizarre that only Frost gets singled out thru the season and now post season, he's the only one once again singled out.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's strange how defensive people are about Frost.

Frost improved a lot throughout the season, and eclipsed my hope of 40 points, and these things were good to see.

Believing Tippett had the better season isn't a knock on Frost.

IMO, Tippett stood out more, especially against better competition.

Tippett also led the team in shots. Had more points per game than Frost. Had more primary points than Frost.

That's no disrespect to Frost. It's just reality.

I'm glad they both showed growth and reasons for optimism heading into next season.

LOL your "hope" of 40 points. Everyone here knew you set that bar fully expecting he wouldn't make it so you could further declare him a bust (which you were vigorously arguing he was s at the time) and blame him for the season. Good grief, the dishonesty and fartlighting.

You know why people seem defensive? Because they don't like being lied to.

 

[Striiker]

 

[Starat327]

I'm all for this narrative, and I'm sure his future isn't great, but Couturier 1000% belongs here too.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Same scouting staff for the most part is still in place.

I'm all for this narrative, and I'm sure his future isn't great, but Couturier 1000% belongs here too.

It’s going by production. So Couturier probably just comes under that standard.

 

[Striiker]

I'm all for this narrative, and I'm sure his future isn't great, but Couturier 1000% belongs here too.

It’s going by production. So Couturier probably just comes under that standard.

Correct.

But, on the other hand, Couturier bitched about them not re-signing Thompson in 2020, so screw that guy.

 

[Starat327]

Same scouting staff for the most part is still in place.



It’s going by production. So Couturier probably just comes under that standard.

Ah. I didn't look at the tweet for criteria.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

You know things are bleak when people are arguing Tippett vs Frost. I’d love if either can take a massive jump and become a franchise player. Personally I’d love if Frost becomes a 60-80 pt 2c and Tippett becomes a 30-40 goal 1st/2nd line winger. They have potential but I don’t see them as core pieces of a Stanley Cup team but more as possible secondary pieces

 

[BernieParent]

You know things are bleak when people are arguing Tippett vs Frost. I’d love if either can take a massive jump and become a franchise player. Personally I’d love if Frost becomes a 60-80 pt 2c and Tippett becomes a 30-40 goal 1st/2nd line winger. They have potential but I don’t see them as core pieces of a Stanley Cup team but more as possible secondary pieces

True but we knew there were no A-level prospects. I am pleased that both took a big step ahead this season. They have both value to potentially keep developing into middle-6 players or as add-ons to get top talent.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

True but we knew there were no A-level prospects. I am pleased that both took a big step ahead this season. They have both value to potentially keep developing into middle-6 players or as add-ons to get top talent.

Yeah I agree. Though there was a brief period where Frost was getting hyped up as a possible Giroux successor. It’s just depressing the state that the Flyers are in. Hopefully Frost and Tippett keep improving and surprise us. We also need Farabee to take the next step and not stall

 

[mja]

Though there was a brief period where Frost was getting hyped up as a possible Giroux successor.

This never happened. Ceiling has always been a top six center, never a franchise player and future HOFer.

The antipathy towards Frost has always been rooted in the same self-sabotaging cliches that this team and fanbase always operate under, namely that Frost is soft, not gritty enough, and too interested in making pretty plays in the offensive zone and as such must be bad defensively. It's completely wrong-headed and misunderstands the damn sport.

He's also been caught up in the effort to scapegoat Hextall for everything that ails this franchise.

 

[Curufinwe]

Talking about what players might theoretically be on a contending team is pretty dumb when the Flyers are mired in the basement. Especially when it comes from people who more or less wrote Frost off as a 22/23 year old. Sorry if I'm not sold on your prediction on what he will be aged 26/27.

 

[deadhead]

This never happened. Ceiling has always been a top six center, never a franchise player and future HOFer.

The antipathy towards Frost has always been rooted in the same self-sabotaging cliches that this team and fanbase always operate under, namely that Frost is soft, not gritty enough, and too interested in making pretty plays in the offensive zone and as such must be bad defensively. It's completely wrong-headed and misunderstands the damn sport.

He's also been caught up in the effort to scapegoat Hextall for everything that ails this franchise.

I don't think there's this antipathy toward Frost, rather he was overhyped based on his CHL performance. If he had been seen for what he is, a 3C with potential 2C upside who needed time to develop and get stronger, there would be a different dialogue.

He clearly wasn't NHL ready in 2019-20 and needed a year or more in the AHL and a summer in the weight room, he got bounced around like a pinball and was a severe liability on the road where opposing HCs could match him up against physical centers. Then he lost a season to the shoulder injury, and was inconsistent during a chaotic season in 2022-23.

If Frost was "held back" it was because he was rushed to the NHL. Had expectations been lower, they would have been more patient with him. He wasn't TK or Farabee, who were better players at 19 than Frost at 22. Like Tippett, he needed time to develop.

 

[Curufinwe]

Give the 3C crap a rest. He scored at a 2C level in his first full season - 2.02 p/60 at 5on5. Only TK did better, and Frost hardly ever got to play with him.

No one takes you seriously in general, but on Frost in particular you are just going to be laughed at as the guy who claimed MacEwen was better offensively just a few months ago.

 

[mja]

I don't think there's this antipathy toward Frost, rather he was overhyped based on his CHL performance. If he had been seen for what he is, a 3C with potential 2C upside who needed time to develop and get stronger, there would be a different dialogue.

He clearly wasn't NHL ready in 2019-20 and needed a year or more in the AHL and a summer in the weight room, he got bounced around like a pinball and was a severe liability on the road where opposing HCs could match him up against physical centers. Then he lost a season to the shoulder injury, and was inconsistent during a chaotic season in 2022-23.

If Frost was "held back" it was because he was rushed to the NHL. Had expectations been lower, they would have been more patient with him. He wasn't TK or Farabee, who were better players at 19 than Frost at 22. Like Tippett, he needed time to develop.

The other guy with shit takes has had it out for Frost for years, while you’ve been a one-man Waffle House.