2023-24 Roster Thread 1: Entering the Starting Gate

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Is Couts even tradeable at this point with his contract and injuries? Maybe he becomes the Professor Charles Xavier of rubber rather than metal but I think it’s optimistic to think he’ll be a major factor moving forward.

I'd say no at least not until after he plays for an extended period without issue. Dude's got I think seven years left on his deal and just missed an entire season with serious back surgery. No chance anyone give anything of value for him unless and until he plays probably at least a full season at a high level.

 

[Magua]

Talking about trading Couts right now makes no sense. Nor, I do I think they look to move him next year even if he plays a full season and bounces back to a reasonable level.

You can't retain on him (I mean you could, but retaining for 6 years is a non-started), and I'm not sure any team that would be interested in taking Couts would be willing to take him on for 6 more seasons.

Crazier things have happened, but I have to imagine that he'll be a Flyer for at least 3-4 more seasons. And, I'm okay with that. I have significant doubts he'll be as good as he was between 2015-2020, but I do think he'll still be a very top-6 center for a long time. Just keep in mind, he's very likely going to need ~20-40 games this year to look decent. The goal for Couts this upcoming season is to get through the year without significant injury. It's not really about anything else.

Mark Stone had back surgery last May. Re-injured in January. A second back surgery in February. Enters the playoffs without missing a beat. They might not even be the same surgeries, and no two bodies are alike, but they're eerily similar in style, size, age. Here's hoping Couturier, who will have more rust to shake off, can pull a Mark Stone......so the Flyers can finish 22nd.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Mark Stone had back surgery last May. Re-injured in January. A second back surgery in February. Enters the playoffs without missing a beat. They might not even be the same surgeries, and no two bodies are alike, but they're eerily similar in style, size, age. Here's hoping Couturier, who will have more rust to shake off, can pull a Mark Stone......so the Flyers can finish 22nd.

I'm just waiting for training camp, Coots begins to skate, hurts his back again and then we hear he needs a third surgery because Flyers luck......

 

[Curufinwe]

He hurt himself off the ice last time.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

I'm just waiting for training camp, Coots begins to skate, hurts his back again and then we hear he needs a third surgery because Flyers luck......

this is the outcome you should brace for.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

I’ve already sold myself on a full scale rebuild which Coots doesn’t help unless he is healthy and tradeable. I like him a lot but I’ve moved on from him. At this point he has to think about his long term health

Maybe it’s just bias but I feel like the Flyers have to have one of the worst medical teams going way back.

 

[deadhead]

Even Torts pretty much said so, but they've cleaned it up.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

He is going to need more than one season of being healthy for Couturier to be tradable. That contract will be tough to move. I have no interest in retaining either. Even at 60-70 percent he’s a better center than anyone else that has played the position in his absence here.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Even Torts pretty much said so, but they've cleaned it up.

His idea of a rebuild is subtracting what skill is left in favor of grinding PK specialists. That's what he said he wants.

 

[Curufinwe]

Fletcher paid a huge price to bring in and retain Ristolainen, and then compounded that error by not even leaving room in the lineup for him to be a regular contributor on the PP.

Yandle and DeAngelo were completely unnecessary signings, and had two of the worst defensive seasons in recent NHL history for regular defensemen.

 

[ponder719]

Even Torts pretty much said so, but they've cleaned it up.

We hope. They have a new medical team, but whether that cleans up the problems or exacerbates them, well, we won't know until we see a few years of results. We've thought we've fixed things that didn't actually get fixed a number of times before.

I hope like hell they have cleaned things up, because Couturier's my favorite player, and I want nothing more than for him to get healthy and back on the ice, but we can't just assume that change fixes things; only fixes fix things.

 

[Columbus Hockey Dad]

His idea of a rebuild is subtracting what skill is left in favor of grinding PK specialists. That's what he said he wants.

Please show me the quote where he said he wants to remove skill in favor of PK specialists. LOL.

 

[Beef Invictus]

]

Please show me the quote where he said he wants to remove skill in favor of PK specialists. LOL.

Pretty cut and dry there. Doesn't want trash skill like JG, wants to remove more players for PK specialists who score 10-12 goals a year. Scoring as low as possible. Minimizing offense in favor of grinding. The Tortorella Way. Being less skilled and more grindy is "the key moving forward."

Torts spews a lot of lies and bullshit, but this is one instance where what he's saying completely matches everything he has done for a couple decades.

 

[kudymen]

Why would one want actions when they can see words. Hehe

 

[FlyerNutter]

Curious how many other franchises would willingly tie themselves to John Tortorella in 2023, and allow him to have such influence over an organization.

Flyers do know best after all

Obsessed with keeping the legacy of Bobby Clarke Hockey alive. This is an incredibly boring product in terms of comparing it to what the rest of the NHL has going on.

 

[Rebels57]

Curious how many other franchises would willingly tie themselves to John Tortorella in 2023, and allow him to have such influence over an organization.

Flyers do know best after all

Obsessed with keeping the legacy of Bobby Clarke Hockey alive. This is an incredibly boring product in terms of comparing it to what the rest of the NHL has going on.

It's not even worth of being called a product right now. It's complete garbage.

Scott and Fletcher doesn't change that. Nothing has changed yet, so until it does, it's still garbage.

 

[FlyerNutter]

It's not even worth of being called a product right now. It's complete garbage.

Scott and Fletcher doesn't change that. Nothing has changed yet, so until it does, it's still garbage.

Just watching some of these teams in the playoffs, it's not just a lack of actual exciting players the Flyers lack.

We have been watching largely boring defensive hockey since Craig Berube in 2013. Why they are so adamant on doing everything to keep this identity alive is so strange to me. It really is a beautiful game, and nobody can say that grit hasn't been on display in round 1.

 

[Rebels57]

Just watching some of these teams in the playoffs, it's not just a lack of actual exciting players the Flyers lack.

We have been watching largely boring defensive hockey since Craig Berube in 2013. Why they are so adamant on doing everything to keep this identity alive is so strange to me. It really is a beautiful game, and nobody can say that grit hasn't been on display in round 1.

Two words:

Bobby Clarke.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Also just for fun, take a peek at the actual core pieces of the current playoff teams remaining. Hell of those that just got kicked out.

Yet here is this franchise pretending the Flyers have anything close to that talent level in any of their players because of a nice year from Cates, and Tippet. There is nothing here.

Tumbleweeds, barren fields, and lies.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Just watching some of these teams in the playoffs, it's not just a lack of actual exciting players the Flyers lack.

We have been watching largely boring defensive hockey since Craig Berube in 2013. Why they are so adamant on doing everything to keep this identity alive is so strange to me. It really is a beautiful game, and nobody can say that grit hasn't been on display in round 1.

Not just Berube. They insisted that Lavi had to change into a defensive coach. He couldn't make that work at all. His goals and management's weren't compatible. Berube said he wanted everything to be generated from the defensive zone and they ran the most ridiculously slow and plodding and safe breakout I've seen. Hakstol and his Hakshell were so over the top here that he was certainty being asked to ratchet up the defense at the expense of all else. AV tried to shift to being a defensive coach, which is a problem because AV has zero idea how defense works and he still wanted to push his stretch hockey somehow; it had no chance of success. They follow that up with the most antique, defense-obsessed fossil they can find. It's a distinct and unavoidable pattern. With Lavi and AV really standing out. I mean come on, it's no coincidence that AV became obsessed with safety here for the first time ever.

The team's front office took a hard and seemingly permanent shift when they thought they would be stuck with a miserably failed Bryz and they tried to go all defense to build a meat shield around him. They've never changed. They keep doubling down further and further. It's been a nonstop downward spiral for almost 12 years.

 

[Rebels57]

Also just for fun, take a peek at the actual core pieces of the current playoff teams remaining. Hell of those that just got kicked out.

Yet here is this franchise pretending the Flyers have anything close to that talent level in any of their players because of a nice year from Cates, and Tippet. There is nothing here.

Tumbleweeds, barren fields, and lies.

Plus side, we'll also have a shot at Celebrini or Eiserman in next years draft.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Not just Berube. They insisted that Lavi had to change into a defensive coach. He couldn't make that work at all. His goals and management's weren't compatible. Berube said he wanted everything to be generated from the defensive zone and they ran the most ridiculously slow and plodding and safe breakout I've seen. Hakstol and his Hakshell were so over the top here that he was certainty being asked to ratchet up the defense at the expense of all else. AV tried to shift to being a defensive coach, which is a problem because AV has zero idea how defense works and he still wanted to push his stretch hockey somehow; it had no chance of success. They follow that up with the most antique, defense-obsessed fossil they can find.

The team's front office took a hard and seemingly permanent shift when they thought they would be stuck with a miserably failed Bryz and they tried to go all defense to build a meat shield around him. They've never changed. They keep doubling down further and further. It's been a nonstop downward spiral.

One can see a rationale in it in a sense that being so low talented, which they most definitely are near the bottom of the barrel compared to the rest of the NHL... They need to play that style to have a chance. There is stupidity, in forming your identity around the strength of the goalie position - even if your best player does indeed happen to be Hart.

I would convince myself that's all it is, but this obsession was on display even before Carter's emergence. I really just think its philosophical at this point. Flyer hockey, and all that bravado.

For all of Comcasts talk of improved marketing, and a clear focus on message control/optics you'd think they would understand that its the product itself keeping seats empty. They only suck, but they are boring as hell compared to the other teams in this league.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Also just for fun, take a peek at the actual core pieces of the current playoff teams remaining. Hell of those that just got kicked out.

Yet here is this franchise pretending the Flyers have anything close to that talent level in any of their players because of a nice year from Cates, and Tippet. There is nothing here.

Tumbleweeds, barren fields, and lies.

Cates-Frost-Tippett is a 3rd line on a playoff team.

 

[Beef Invictus]

One can see a rationale in it in a sense that being so low talented, which they most definitely are near the bottom of the barrel compared to the rest of the NHL... They need to play that style to have a chance. There is stupidity, in forming your identity around the strength of the goalie position - even if your best player does indeed happen to be Hart.

I would convince myself that's all it is, but this obsession was on display even before Carter's emergence. I really just think its philosophical at this point. Flyer hockey, and all that bravado.

For all of Comcasts talk of improved marketing, and a clear focus on message control/optics you'd think they would understand that its the product itself keeping seats empty. They only suck, but they are boring as hell compared to the other teams in this league.

Of course, there's also the fact that their obsession with defense over all is a major reason why they have no talent. They've either driven it away, pursued shit talent on purpose in the delusion that it will help defensively, or developed the talent out of players to make them fit their idea of safe defense. It's a self perpetuating problem.

"We need these guys to play defensively because we have no talent" ===> "we are focused on defense so we must only acquire and develop that style" ===> REPEAT

 

[Curufinwe]

Does GMDB bring back ZMac to help the attack next season if the Kings don't qualify him?

Don't forget that at one point he was outscoring Frost, and ended up having a career year of 10 points in 56 games. And he'll only be 27 years old.