Boston Bruins 2023-24 Roster and Salary Cap Discussion VIII

[sarge88]

He hasn’t just been bad this year. He’s been bad since he got to Montreal. Talk to a Canadiens fan about it. He’s in the conversation for worst passer in the entire league - 37 assists in 235 games for Montreal which is really hard to do even on purpose. He’s been less than a half a point a game with MTL and is a -56 in 235 games. He’s been bad.

Maybe. But his last two seasons were better than Heinen’s and he was welcomed back here with the most open arms I’ve ever seen for a JAG.

Hasn't he had some serious injury issues as well?

Maybe. I think the bigger problem for some is that he plays physical while scoring 30 something points a year….and he doesn’t poke check well enough while scoring 30 something points a year.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Maybe. But his last two seasons were better than Heinen’s and he was welcomed back here with the most open arms I’ve ever seen for a JAG.

Comparing him to Heinen makes no sense. Heinen was on a PTO. Anderson makes $5.5M for 3 more years. If Anderson was available on a PTO the discourse would be different, as stated above, but it’s very likely Heinen is a better hockey player than Josh Anderson now.

 

[Dr Hook]

Maybe. But his last two seasons were better than Heinen’s and he was welcomed back here with the most open arms I’ve ever seen for a JAG.



Maybe. I think the bigger problem for some is that he plays physical while scoring 30 something points a year….and he doesn’t poke check well enough while scoring 30 something points a year.

Haha well that might be true for some. For me I liked his game earlier in his career, but at $5.5.yr? I look at it his way: if Anderson was here on a Heinen or JVR deal, no problem. Heinen is liked by many who were meh on him before because A) he is a better player than his last stint here but also B) He is on a league minimum deal. Today's Josh Anderson is terrible value for money- just about everyone hated the last parts of Backes and Beleskey's deals and that's what we would be buying without getting the one or two good years up front.

 

[sarge88]

Comparing him to Heinen makes no sense. Heinen was on a PTO. Anderson makes $5.5M for 3 more years. If Anderson was available on a PTO the discourse would be different, as stated above, but it’s very likely Heinen is a better hockey player than Josh Anderson now.

Back to square 1.

All I was doing was questioning your comment that “Josh Anderson isn’t a good hockey player anymore”, with little thought about context.

The fact is that starting on the day Heinen waa offered his PTO, going back 2 seasons and looking a their respective bodies of work, Anderson was a much more effective player.

My main point was that I find it curious that because of a poor 1/2 season with a terrible team, you’ve decided that Anderson is done, yet you and others were all in on Heinen despite his awful recent performance, especially last year.

IMO a case can be made that the only real difference between the two is that Montreal sucks and Boston is a top 3 team.

Again, I get the contract disparity and I agree that Henien, at league minimum is fine and I’m not suggesting the B’s should be hell bent on getting Anderson here.

All I’m saying, is that if you swapped the two players, there is a very good chance Andersons production would be markedly better and Heinen’s worse.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Back to square 1.

All I was doing was questioning your comment that “Josh Anderson isn’t a good hockey player anymore”, with little thought about context.

The fact is that starting on the day Heinen waa offered his PTO, going back 2 seasons and looking a their respective bodies of work, Anderson was a much more effective player.

My main point was that I find it curious that because of a poor 1/2 season with a terrible team, you’ve decided that Anderson is done, yet you and others were all in on Heinen despite his awful recent performance, especially last year.

IMO a case can be made that the only real difference between the two is that Montreal sucks and Boston is a top 3 team.

Again, I get the contract disparity and I agree that Henien, at league minimum is fine and I’m not suggesting the B’s should be hell bent on getting Anderson here.

All I’m saying, is that if you swapped the two players, there is a very good chance Andersons production would be markedly better and Heinen’s worse.

Again it’s not 1/2 season. It’s 3.5 seasons. And he sucked on a MTL team that made it to the finals. Anderson couldn’t do what Heinen does for this team.

 

[UncleRico]

By definition I agree pedigree is the wrong word here. However I also believe in sports that it is used to describe a players demonstrated potential. We often say this prospect has the pedigree to become.

One way or another DeBrusk as BlacknGold pointed out DeBrusk has come awfully close twice and over a 30 goal pace multiple times. He is a vet so we should rely on actual outcomres more than “potential”. On the other hand he has continued to grow in front of our eyes, he is still young and he has undeniably suffered more then most during the strangest period of hockey in my 40+ years of watching.

I’m not a betting man but if I were I would bet on this player to have 2 or more 30 goal seasons on his next contract (assuming about 5 years.)

So end of the day we spend a lot of time on semantics but he’s a heck of a player and he continues to grow.

I mean pedigree is basically showing a history of doing something. Not having the potential to do something.

You are entitled to think he will have two 30 goal seasons the next 5 years. But the reality is he’s had 7 seasons on the league with zero 30 goal seasons.

Everyone wants to call him a 30+ or 35+ goal scorer but the reality is he’s a

67 gp / 20g /19a player per season.

That’s a major value gap in his actual numbers compared to his perceived numbers around here.

 

[sarge88]

Again it’s not 1/2 season. It’s 3.5 seasons. And he sucked on a MTL team that made it to the finals. Anderson couldn’t do what Heinen does for this team.

Last I checked goals matter.

Anderson had 21 goals last year…Heinen had 22 points.

Anderson brings toughness that this forward group needs.

Heinen brings poke checking that this team has in spades.

Neither will be the difference between winning a series or not, but to summarily declare that Heinen is more effective here because he’s a better player is entirely unprovable.

Anderson has had 64 goals in the last 4 years, Heinen 42.

HeInen was terrible last year, much worse than Anderson was and he’s been decent here.

I‘d wager that Anderson would be a much better player here than he is in Montreal, simply because it’s a better environment and team, just like Heinen has benefitted from.

 

[4ORRBRUIN]

Freddy has 9 more 5v5 points then Lindholm lol. Like anyone that even suggested that shouldn't be paid to write about hockey.

Freddy is a core piece it will take a hell a deal to move him

 

[NDiesel]

I mean pedigree is basically showing a history of doing something. Not having the potential to do something.

You are entitled to think he will have two 30 goal seasons the next 5 years. But the reality is he’s had 7 seasons on the league with zero 30 goal seasons.

Everyone wants to call him a 30+ or 35+ goal scorer but the reality is he’s a

67 gp / 20g /19a player per season.

That’s a major value gap in his actual numbers compared to his perceived numbers around here.

I mean the reality isn't that he's a 20 Goal guy either like you're implying, he's scored 27 twice and 25 three times, including the most recent two seasons. You're being just as disingenuous calling him a 20 goal guy as someone who's calling him a 30+ goal guy.

 

[danpantz]

Last I checked goals matter.

Anderson had 21 goals last year…Heinen had 22 points.

Anderson brings toughness that this forward group needs.

Heinen brings poke checking that this team has in spades.

Neither will be the difference between winning a series or not, but to summarily declare that Heinen is more effective here because he’s a better player is entirely unprovable.

Anderson has had 64 goals in the last 4 years, Heinen 42.

HeInen was terrible last year, much worse than Anderson was and he’s been decent here.

I‘d wager that Anderson would be a much better player here than he is in Montreal, simply because it’s a better environment and team, just like Heinen has benefitted from.

Yes Heinen hasn’t been good, that’s why he only could get a PTO.

But you’re comparing him to a guy making 5.5 mil for a few more years.

 

[sarge88]

Yes Heinen hasn’t been good, that’s why he only could get a PTO.

But you’re comparing him to a guy making 5.5 mil for a few more years.

No, I get it, taking the contracts into consideration, Anderson is not good value.

My only issue is with him being declared as being done, so to speak, when in reality if he were in a better situation, there’s a good chance he’d be far more effective.

I only brought Heinen into this because people were so gung ho about him coming back here, despite his awful last season, but for some reason don’t think Anderson is capable of having a similar rebound if he were to come here.

 

[HustleB]

I mean the reality isn't that he's a 20 Goal guy either like you're implying, he's scored 27 twice and 25 three times, including the most recent two seasons. You're being just as disingenuous calling him a 20 goal guy as someone who's calling him a 30+ goal guy.

Thank you.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I mean the reality isn't that he's a 20 Goal guy either like you're implying, he's scored 27 twice and 25 three times, including the most recent two seasons. You're being just as disingenuous calling him a 20 goal guy as someone who's calling him a 30+ goal guy.

That seems like a 30+ guy around here.

 

[NDiesel]

That seems like a 30+ guy around here.

Seems like we can confidently say that's a 25 goal guy

 

[JoeIsAStud]

The Athletic put out an article with some Elias Lindholm trade proposals. One for the bruins was our 2025 first, Poitras, and Frederic. Personally wouldn't even pick up the phone with Calgary was asking for that.

Does that deal come with Lindholm signed to a below market contract for 8 years??? Either way a Big NO

 

[BruinDust]

Contracts the Bruins need to avoid at all costs.....

Josh Anderson

Tomas Hertl

Elias Lindholm's extension.

 

[danpantz]

No, I get it, taking the contracts into consideration, Anderson is not good value.

My only issue is with him being declared as being done, so to speak, when in reality if he were in a better situation, there’s a good chance he’d be far more effective.

I only brought Heinen into this because people were so gung ho about him coming back here, despite his awful last season, but for some reason don’t think Anderson is capable of having a similar rebound if he were to come here.

I think you’d probably get a similar reaction if Anderson was coming here on a pto or JVR like deal.

 

[sarge88]

I think you’d probably get a similar reaction if Anderson was coming here on a pto or JVR like deal.

Agreed.

 

[kdog82]

Heinen has been awesome and...

Lindholm for Frederic straight up is a no-go, nevermind with an early-round pick! they had another player in there, too?! it's crazy land. you have to pay them for this dreck, right? I openly mock their absurd concepts. (this is in no way suggesting that ad-sponsored bloatsite setups exist in a higher tier of any sort.)

Freddy not for sale.

 

[Dizzay]

Best I'd offer for Lindholm would be Lysell/Merkulov + 2025 1st but I'd be very reluctant to give that package up, think we could do better than Lindholm.

The Anderson talk is over the top. Does he have any gas left in the tank, I'd say so. Is he a diminishing asset at 5.5 million, yes. Can we compare him with Heinen, f*** no. I read the "usual suspects" garbage based on us Neanderthals who like rough and tough hockey but ignore skill and everything else. I loved Looch, loved McQuaid, loved Thornton, Iginla, Horton........all tough SOB's but were not John Scott's, who couldn't play worth a lick and were liabilities on the ice. If that puts me in the "usual suspects" category, then put the C on my chest

 

[UncleRico]

I mean the reality isn't that he's a 20 Goal guy either like you're implying, he's scored 27 twice and 25 three times, including the most recent two seasons. You're being just as disingenuous calling him a 20 goal guy as someone who's calling him a 30+ goal guy.

I’m not calling him a 20 goal guy. I just gave his season averages. That’s it.

His season averages are

67gp/ 20g / 19 assists / 39 points.

That’s not being disingenuous. Those are his real numbers. Those are his averages if all seasons he played were 82 games long (pro rated for covid seasons to make it all equal)

Being disingenuous is calling a guy a 30 goal scorer who in a 7 year career has never scored 30 goals.

 

[22Brad Park]

Heinen has been awesome and...

Lindholm for Frederic straight up is a no-go, nevermind with an early-round pick! they had another player in there, too?! it's crazy land. you have to pay them for this dreck, right? I openly mock their absurd concepts. (this is in no way suggesting that ad-sponsored bloatsite setups exist in a higher tier of any sort.)

That 2025 1st & Poitras for Lindholm could happen. I know they been playing well and Coyle been fantastic but I can see this trade .

 

[BlackFrancis]

OK.

Just because it’s the bye week and we need stuff to talk about, I’ll throw this out there.

Anderson has 5 less points than Heinen, while playing for a dumpster fire of a team.

Putting contract aside….because if he were to come here during the season, obviously they could fit him in.

Why is it that Anderson couldn’t improve simply by playing for a much, much, much better team?

A short year ago, Anderson had 21 goals…..Heinen had 22 points in a similar number of games. (JA 69, DH 65).

How is it that Anderson is no longer good at hockey and therefore not worth a shot here (assuming the price is reasonable) but you were/are all in on Heinen, despite his abysmal season last year and despite the fact that Heinen isn’t exactly crushing him statistically?

I’m not saying get Anderson at all costs or that he’s guaranteed to produce here, but at least be consistent and fair.

If you’re going to say he’s not good anymore based on a poor 1/2 season with a lousy team, why weren’t you saying the same thing about Heinen after a very poor full season with a much better team last year?

Furthermore, to some (not you, it would seem) the simple fact that Anderson would bring some much needed toughness to the forward group would make him a worthwhile target.

To be clear, I’m not suggesting Anderson replace Heinen, per se.

But, if you’re someone who feels as if Heinen is/was worth taking a shot on, why not Anderson too?

Damn it, I am an idiot.

 

[HustleB]

Being disingenuous is calling a guy a 30 goal scorer who in a 7 year career has never scored 30 goals.

You keep saying things like this to people who aren’t calling him a 30 goal scorer. Not sure what it is adding to the dialog?

 

[NDiesel]

I’m not calling him a 20 goal guy. I just gave his season averages. That’s it.

His season averages are

67gp/ 20g / 19 assists / 39 points.

That’s not being disingenuous. Those are his real numbers. Those are his averages if all seasons he played were 82 games long (pro rated for covid seasons to make it all equal)

Being disingenuous is calling a guy a 30 goal scorer who in a 7 year career has never scored 30 goals.

But why are his career averages relevant? Would you average out Marchands for any reason at all? If you did it would wildly alter the true value of him because of how he started his career. It seems like you're doing averages to purposely bring him down when you just simply need to look at his most recent 2 seasons to see what he is as a player.

And it's hilarious you're griping with calling him a 30 goal scorer (he was 3 goals short) but have no issue posting his 20 goal average when he has been 5+ goals over that 3 times.