Prospect Info: 2023-24 Prospect Info (CHL, NCAA, Europe)

[Caser]

He's a poor skater and isn't nearly as skilled as the guys you're listing. If he comes over (and a rather big if considering his contracts and relevance in the KHL), he's likely a a fringe guy in the NHL. Not meaning that he can't play in the NHL, but is he willing to play in the NHL in a bottom 6 role where he's not ideally suited (and may spend time in the AHL) for a chance at a 2nd line role where he will be below average at best? Different play style, but same problem as Malgin.

Also, the KHL has taken a pretty strong step back in the last two years. Foreign players are staying in their home countries or playing in Germany or Switzerland instead. The quality just isn't what it was in 2016-2018 where it was the clear #2 league in the world. Brandon Yip is top 10 in scoring. Jaskin who a number of teams tried to force into the NHL because of his great skill set, but never worked is top 5. The two best players in the league are De Costa (the ultra hyped college UFA that never panned out) and Tkachyov (played in the LA system last year where he failed out and was meh in the AHL). I could go on, but the league is just kinda crap right now. Top 6 AHL guys, not elite AHL guys, are running at a .75+ppg clip.

I think that there have been couple of times I've read that "poor skater" stuff here and I'd really like to understand a bit more, what exactly do you mean? Because I'm not seeing it at least in terms of speed, but maybe you mean some specific component here?

 

[henchman21]

I think that there have been couple of times I've read that "poor skater" stuff here and I'd really like to understand a bit more, what exactly do you mean? Because I'm not seeing it at least in terms of speed, but maybe you mean some specific component here?

I actually care very little about speed (other than Pat Maroon, most players can actually get some speed eventually) and when I’m talking about skating I’m talking about the whole… edges, extension, ankle bend, efficiency, burst, ability to maintain edges when they are leaned on, etc.

I’m admittedly harsh on skating (I’ve been the guy here pouring cold water on Newhook and Jost’s skating even prior to them in the NHL), but in today’s game, it is one of the most important aspects for players… especially smaller players. If a smaller player can’t skate, they better have something utterly elite like Caulfield and Cat’s shooting.

 

[Perratrooper]

I actually care very little about speed (other than Pat Maroon, most players can actually get some speed eventually) and when I’m talking about skating I’m talking about the whole… edges, extension, ankle bend, efficiency, burst, ability to maintain edges when they are leaned on, etc.

I’m admittedly harsh on skating (I’ve been the guy here pouring cold water on Newhook and Jost’s skating even prior to them in the NHL), but in today’s game, it is one of the most important aspects for players… especially smaller players. If a smaller player can’t skate, they better have something utterly elite like Caulfield and Cat’s shooting.

I could be mistaken, but didn’t you also say that Meyers skating would be an issue at this level too? Regardless more often than not your analysis on skating has been accurate so given your track record with players like Jost and Newhook I tend to listen when you note it as an area or concern.

 

[henchman21]

I could be mistaken, but didn’t you also say that Meyers skating would be an issue at this level too? Regardless more often than not your analysis on skating has been accurate so given your track record with players like Jost and Newhook I tend to listen when you note it as an area or concern.

I wasn’t ever down on Meyers’ skating. I think Meyers skating is good enough to play the roles he’s destined for and he has good burst. He’s a good, but short of great or elite skater.

 

[niwotsblessing]

I actually care very little about speed (other than Pat Maroon, most players can actually get some speed eventually) and when I’m talking about skating I’m talking about the whole… edges, extension, ankle bend, efficiency, burst, ability to maintain edges when they are leaned on, etc.

I’m admittedly harsh on skating (I’ve been the guy here pouring cold water on Newhook and Jost’s skating even prior to them in the NHL), but in today’s game, it is one of the most important aspects for players… especially smaller players. If a smaller player can’t skate, they better have something utterly elite like Caulfield and Cat’s shooting.

I would like you to define these characteristics so I can understand what you mean. For example, it seems to me that hockey skates do a lot to support a players ankles, so the idea of "ankle bend" strikes me as a strange concept. Thanks.

 

[henchman21]

I would like you to define these characteristics so I can understand what you mean. For example, it seems to me that hockey skates do a lot to support a players ankles, so the idea of "ankle bend" strikes me as a strange concept. Thanks.

You need a deep knee bend to generate the most powerful and efficient stride. To do that you need forward ankle flexion. It puts players on the balls of their feet and as the stride happens, the ankle push should be allowing proper extension. If a player has poor front and back ankle bend, they tend to be inefficient and lacking power. If they generate the bend, but get heel kicky… they can generate proper power, but there is wasted movement which causes inefficiencies and makes players work harder than they have to.

One thing I see in a lot of younger players… their skates are way too tight and there is too much binding with the shin pads. The ‘ankle benders’ (ankles that rock in) shouldn’t be compensating by tightening everything up… they need to simply build up strength and proper flexibility in that area.

I could write essays on each of those topics, but probably easier to go watch power skating videos. Not everyone agrees on all things to make great skaters… but the basics are explained well in those.

 

[S E P H]

So thoughts on how well the prospects are doing?

A Level
- Kovalenko: Some red flags, but I can't argue against that stat line in the second-best league in the world.
- Foudy: Not quite ready for the NHL in terms of production, but being a bit below PPG for his age is pretty solid in the AHL.

B Level
- Ambrosio: As a junior, he should probably be around PPG, but should set career years at his pace. He should be a four-year player.
- Zhigalov: Big fan of his athletic ability, very similar to Rinne, but can he refine his cocaine movements into a more structured game? Kingston will be better when Wright starts playing for them and should increase his stats.

C Level
- Olausson: First year in AHL, some growing pains as all young forwards have.
- Leivermann: Doubt he signs with us, but looks like a veteran on a team that has taken some steps back.
- Makar: Still beyond raw, but 7 goals in 18 games as a sophomore seventh-round pick isn't bad by any means.

D Level
- Behrens: Seems like last year was a bit too much of a blessing. Looks solid, but needs to refine his skill set more to become more consistent. Needs probably longer development at this point
- Buyalsky: Might be too harsh because he plays on an awful team, but he is a plus player on a bad team (if that means anything). Want to see some more offensive production out of him though.
- Romaine: Not sure if it's fair to rate him at this point because he got a major injury making him miss the first two months of the season. Then factor in that he's on a Godawful rebuilding Lancers team. He's probably on the worst team out of any of the Avs prospects.

F Level
- Stienburg: I get he missed a year due to injury and Covid, but he took the risk going back and has taken a step back on a very good Cornell team. You would hope he was going to be a veteran on that team, but he got passed by new recruits.


I get that Avs will probably trade that 1st round for a centre at the TDL, but I sort of hope they keep it. This is a great draft and you can fix so many issues in the long run with a ton of centres on the board. If not, at least trade the 1st along with others for a young-ish centre instead of going in for an old stopgap. Avs will even lose more depth when Helm and Cogliano eventually retire which could be as soon as this upcoming offseason.

 

[Perratrooper]

So thoughts on how well the prospects are doing?

A Level
- Kovalenko: Some red flags, but I can't argue against that stat line in the second-best league in the world.
- Foudy: Not quite ready for the NHL in terms of production, but being a bit below PPG for his age is pretty solid in the AHL.

B Level
- Ambrosio: As a junior, he should probably be around PPG, but should set career years at his pace. He should be a four-year player.
- Zhigalov: Big fan of his athletic ability, very similar to Rinne, but can he refine his cocaine movements into a more structured game? Kingston will be better when Wright starts playing for them and should increase his stats.

C Level
- Olausson: First year in AHL, some growing pains as all young forwards have.
- Leivermann: Doubt he signs with us, but looks like a veteran on a team that has taken some steps back.
- Makar: Still beyond raw, but 7 goals in 18 games as a sophomore seventh-round pick isn't bad by any means.

D Level
- Behrens: Seems like last year was a bit too much of a blessing. Looks solid, but needs to refine his skill set more to become more consistent. Needs probably longer development at this point
- Buyalsky: Might be too harsh because he plays on an awful team, but he is a plus player on a bad team (if that means anything). Want to see some more offensive production out of him though.
- Romaine: Not sure if it's fair to rate him at this point because he got a major injury making him miss the first two months of the season. Then factor in that he's on a Godawful rebuilding Lancers team. He's probably on the worst team out of any of the Avs prospects.

F Level
- Stienburg: I get he missed a year due to injury and Covid, but he took the risk going back and has taken a step back on a very good Cornell team. You would hope he was going to be a veteran on that team, but he got passed by new recruits.


I get that Avs will probably trade that 1st round for a centre at the TDL, but I sort of hope they keep it. This is a great draft and you can fix so many issues in the long run with a ton of centres on the board. If not, at least trade the 1st along with others for a young-ish centre instead of going in for an old stopgap. Avs will even lose more depth when Helm and Cogliano eventually retire which could be as soon as this upcoming offseason.

Some very interesting takes in here. When you state A level are you suggesting this prospects are A level or that they are having A level seasons?

It’s interesting to see your view on these prospects as I personally would grade a good chunk differently. Specifically, I’d argue we don’t really have an A level prospect in our system as I view A level players with a good shot at being an impact top 6 forward.

 

[henchman21]

I wouldn't say the KHL is the 2nd best league in the world today. The quality has dropped off dramatically over the last couple years. It is still in the realm and debatable at this point, but AHL and SHL are right there with the KHL now. There is a large gap down, to the next group of Liiga, NLA and DEL... but NLA and DEL are really gaining fast too. Of any league, the DEL has probably taken the largest step forward over the last 5 years, and the last couple especially. NLA could really make a case for being in the debate of the top 3. Frankly a lot of Europeans who were fringe level NHLers but never stuck tend to gravitate to NLA now...Kovar, Chlapik, Filppula, Hoffman, Omark, Andrighetto, etc. That league is actually very good now.

 

[S E P H]

Some very interesting takes in here. When you state A level are you suggesting this prospects are A level or that they are having A level seasons?

It’s interesting to see your view on these prospects as I personally would grade a good chunk differently. Specifically, I’d argue we don’t really have an A level prospect in our system as I view A level players with a good shot at being an impact top 6 forward.

Just having A-level seasons and beyond. For example, Kovalenko is a sloppy skater whom I saw a couple of years ago who didn't have the height or weight to be in the NHL. He got especially abused physically when he was in the WJC for Russia, however, he has a crazy work ethic and does a lot of details including using himself as a target to open space for his teammates by suckering in opposing forwards or defenders looking for a hit (he's very good at this). I hope that he and the Avs come to an eventual agreement because I think he's worth the chance and definitely has talent, but there is a chance those red flags - skating and being very light on his skates - won't ever make him into an NHL player. If he's able to work it out, I could see having the same impact as his fellow Russian Barbanov, but more likely the case he reaches an Oskar Lindblom level.

My post wasn't really to be taken seriously, just an open discussion about where others see them beside myself. I haven't been able to see many viewings, so take my post with a grain of salt if need be. I just can't argue against Kovalenko's stat line in the KHL and Foudy looking as good as he did with both the Avs and Eagles deserves an A rating for me even if he won't ever be an A-level prospect like a 1st liner or something along those lines.

 

[Pokecheque]

So thoughts on how well the prospects are doing?

A Level
- Kovalenko: Some red flags, but I can't argue against that stat line in the second-best league in the world.
- Foudy: Not quite ready for the NHL in terms of production, but being a bit below PPG for his age is pretty solid in the AHL.

B Level
- Ambrosio: As a junior, he should probably be around PPG, but should set career years at his pace. He should be a four-year player.
- Zhigalov: Big fan of his athletic ability, very similar to Rinne, but can he refine his cocaine movements into a more structured game? Kingston will be better when Wright starts playing for them and should increase his stats.

C Level
- Olausson: First year in AHL, some growing pains as all young forwards have.
- Leivermann: Doubt he signs with us, but looks like a veteran on a team that has taken some steps back.
- Makar: Still beyond raw, but 7 goals in 18 games as a sophomore seventh-round pick isn't bad by any means.

D Level
- Behrens: Seems like last year was a bit too much of a blessing. Looks solid, but needs to refine his skill set more to become more consistent. Needs probably longer development at this point
- Buyalsky: Might be too harsh because he plays on an awful team, but he is a plus player on a bad team (if that means anything). Want to see some more offensive production out of him though.
- Romaine: Not sure if it's fair to rate him at this point because he got a major injury making him miss the first two months of the season. Then factor in that he's on a Godawful rebuilding Lancers team. He's probably on the worst team out of any of the Avs prospects.

F Level
- Stienburg: I get he missed a year due to injury and Covid, but he took the risk going back and has taken a step back on a very good Cornell team. You would hope he was going to be a veteran on that team, but he got passed by new recruits.


I get that Avs will probably trade that 1st round for a centre at the TDL, but I sort of hope they keep it. This is a great draft and you can fix so many issues in the long run with a ton of centres on the board. If not, at least trade the 1st along with others for a young-ish centre instead of going in for an old stopgap. Avs will even lose more depth when Helm and Cogliano eventually retire which could be as soon as this upcoming offseason.

Kovalenko is "A level" and Behrens is "D level?" I'm certainly no prospects expert but that doesn't seem right at all.

 

[S E P H]

Kovalenko is "A level" and Behrens is "D level?" I'm certainly no prospects expert but that doesn't seem right at all.

Those two are more based on stats than anything else. Behrens has been solid, but now it seems like he got an absurd amount of PP points last year and hasn't really been the same even though DU has been just as good. I also want to see his play and consistency improve away from the puck, I still think he has good NHL talent and is the best prospect in the Avs system (a debate that Foudy has potentially caught him though). Nonetheless, instead of perhaps being a two-year-and-done sort of player, we're seeing that he probably will need more years to get his development better. We are too fortunate as fans to constantly see an upward linear projection with prospects nowadays, when in reality a lot of prospects go through some plateaus and many bumps in their development.

 

[Caser]

 

[Pokecheque]

I can't imagine there's any other team in the league with as huge a disparity between their pro scouts and their amateur scouts as the Avalanche. Between Nichushkin, Lehkonen, Toews, Burakovsky, and now Rodrigues, they just know who best fits. Can't say the same at all about the other side. I realize it's not apples to apples here, but surely if your pro scouts are this good, there's a way to somehow parlay that into some better success on the draft/development side.

 

[Bender]

So thoughts on how well the prospects are doing?

A Level
- Kovalenko: Some red flags, but I can't argue against that stat line in the second-best league in the world.
- Foudy: Not quite ready for the NHL in terms of production, but being a bit below PPG for his age is pretty solid in the AHL.

B Level
- Ambrosio: As a junior, he should probably be around PPG, but should set career years at his pace. He should be a four-year player.
- Zhigalov: Big fan of his athletic ability, very similar to Rinne, but can he refine his cocaine movements into a more structured game? Kingston will be better when Wright starts playing for them and should increase his stats.

C Level
- Olausson: First year in AHL, some growing pains as all young forwards have.
- Leivermann: Doubt he signs with us, but looks like a veteran on a team that has taken some steps back.
- Makar: Still beyond raw, but 7 goals in 18 games as a sophomore seventh-round pick isn't bad by any means.

D Level
- Behrens: Seems like last year was a bit too much of a blessing. Looks solid, but needs to refine his skill set more to become more consistent. Needs probably longer development at this point
- Buyalsky: Might be too harsh because he plays on an awful team, but he is a plus player on a bad team (if that means anything). Want to see some more offensive production out of him though.
- Romaine: Not sure if it's fair to rate him at this point because he got a major injury making him miss the first two months of the season. Then factor in that he's on a Godawful rebuilding Lancers team. He's probably on the worst team out of any of the Avs prospects.

F Level
- Stienburg: I get he missed a year due to injury and Covid, but he took the risk going back and has taken a step back on a very good Cornell team. You would hope he was going to be a veteran on that team, but he got passed by new recruits.


I get that Avs will probably trade that 1st round for a centre at the TDL, but I sort of hope they keep it. This is a great draft and you can fix so many issues in the long run with a ton of centres on the board. If not, at least trade the 1st along with others for a young-ish centre instead of going in for an old stopgap. Avs will even lose more depth when Helm and Cogliano eventually retire which could be as soon as this upcoming offseason.

wut?

 

[S E P H]

wut?

Lol, just a means of saying he's super athletic, plays with way too much movement, and at times tends to overplay a lot of angles. All similarities you see with somebody on Florida Snow.

 

[henchman21]

I can't imagine there's any other team in the league with as huge a disparity between their pro scouts and their amateur scouts as the Avalanche. Between Nichushkin, Lehkonen, Toews, Burakovsky, and now Rodrigues, they just know who best fits. Can't say the same at all about the other side. I realize it's not apples to apples here, but surely if your pro scouts are this good, there's a way to somehow parlay that into some better success on the draft/development side.

The hardest thing about amateur scouting is projection of skills. In pro scouting, you're evaluating the current skills of a player and how they fit. There is certainly crossover (and frequently pro scouts do have some looks at amateurs), but they are really looking at different things when evaluating players.

 

[Chiarelli]

Amateur scouting seems like a brutally tough profession. Also, junior hockey (other than best on best) is terrible to watch at any regularity.

 

[henchman21]

Amateur scouting seems like a brutally tough profession. Also, junior hockey (other than best on best) is terrible to watch at any regularity.

Completely disagree... CHL and USHL is some of the very best hockey to watch. There is beauty in the imperfection and the mistakes. It is a place where you can truly see talent stand above and the excitement that brings.

The worst hockey out there are the Swedish pro leagues... spaced out, passive, incredibly structured hockey where nothing much happens for 50 minutes a game. They've turned hockey into soccer over there, where if you enjoy paint drying... you'll love it.

 

[McMetal]

I haven't watched many prospects this year, but I'm kind of surprised that Behrens took such a step back. He looked awesome last season at DU, and I was hoping for a solid step forward to propel him to a pro contract this summer.

 

[henchman21]

I haven't watched many prospects this year, but I'm kind of surprised that Behrens took such a step back. He looked awesome last season at DU, and I was hoping for a solid step forward to propel him to a pro contract this summer.

Behrens hasn't taken a step back. Those that look at the stat line might think so, but he's played great hockey. He got banged up a bit earlier this season and hasn't been fully healthy... but his performance at the WJC was fantastic. Those expecting a high level of offense (45+ points) from him are going to be disappointed. He's a 2 way guy despite his size.

 

[Gumballhead]

I can't imagine there's any other team in the league with as huge a disparity between their pro scouts and their amateur scouts as the Avalanche. Between Nichushkin, Lehkonen, Toews, Burakovsky, and now Rodrigues, they just know who best fits. Can't say the same at all about the other side. I realize it's not apples to apples here, but surely if your pro scouts are this good, there's a way to somehow parlay that into some better success on the draft/development side.

Some of those guys I could have told you would be good fits

It can’t be the same folks who thought Barnaby and Kasparitis and guys like that would be good for us. The worst one was Battaglia.

 

[Pokecheque]

Some of those guys I could have told you would be good fits

It can’t be the same folks who thought Barnaby and Kasparitis and guys like that would be good for us. The worst one was Battaglia.

Sure, but not all!

Can’t imagine they have the same scouts as they did back then. We’re talkin’ like 20 years ago!

I’d argue the Avs made far, far worse acquisitions at the deadline a couple years ago. And I think that was a GM thing, not the scouts. No way were the scouts saying “yes, bring back Soderberg and Nemeth, they’d be perfect!”

But yes everyone around here knows the only former Av I hate more than Bates Motel is goddamn Matt Bumwhack. The mere thought of that tool coughing up the puck every shift sends me into a rage every time.

 

[ANewHope]

I can't imagine there's any other team in the league with as huge a disparity between their pro scouts and their amateur scouts as the Avalanche. Between Nichushkin, Lehkonen, Toews, Burakovsky, and now Rodrigues, they just know who best fits. Can't say the same at all about the other side. I realize it's not apples to apples here, but surely if your pro scouts are this good, there's a way to somehow parlay that into some better success on the draft/development side.

I'm not an expert on scouting but I wonder if it's the fact they struggle with more projection type players than guys who are proven like Henchy said? Different projecting a guy with tons of NHL tape/a high end prospect vs players outside the 1st round.

It does seem crazy tho. Could argue the Avs have the best pro scouting in the league and are the worst drafting team outside of the top 10.

 

[Avsfan1921]

Some of those guys I could have told you would be good fits

It can’t be the same folks who thought Barnaby and Kasparitis and guys like that would be good for us. The worst one was Battaglia.

I’m getting old and my memory ain’t great but I seem to remember liking barnaby during his tenure here lol