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2023-24 Frank J. Selke Trophy finalists: Aleksander Barkov, Auston Matthews, Jordan Staal | Winner: Aleksander Barkov

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JackSlater said:
The Selke is explicitly about defence only, the Norris is not. Offence is a valid consideration for the Norris, but not for the Selke.
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I think they should change the criteria for the Selke to best "two-way player" as it would better describe the winners

Although, if you are capable of putting up points, then you are probably getting more ice time than some 3rd liner who blocks a lot of shots or whatever and therefore facing more defensive situations. So, if you're a Selke voter, you're gonna see Patrice Bergeron and Aleksander Barkov make a lot of plays because they are on the ice 20 minutes a game.

Or like, if Barkov breaks up a play in the defensive zone and transitions that to a goal for Florida at the other end, that's gonna stick more in someone's mind
 
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Hischier was close last year, Wonder how far off he was this year with how terrible the Devils were.
 
JackSlater said:
The Selke is explicitly about defence only, the Norris is not. Offence is a valid consideration for the Norris, but not for the Selke.
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"To the defense player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position."

You telling me Karlsson last year with a -26 on the worst defensive team in the league was the best all around defenseman last year? Let's not pretend it is anything other than a recognition of offensive numbers for a defenseman.
 
dabeechman said:
"To the defense player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position."

You telling me Karlsson last year with a -26 on the worst defensive team in the league was the best all around defenseman last year? Let's not pretend it is anything other than a recognition of offensive numbers for a defenseman.
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Arguably, since no defenceman had a truly great year last year. Karlsson getting the Norris is beside the point though. The Selke and Norris comparison is bad.
 
dabeechman said:
"To the defense player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position."

You telling me Karlsson last year with a -26 on the worst defensive team in the league was the best all around defenseman last year? Let's not pretend it is anything other than a recognition of offensive numbers for a defenseman.
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This has been a debate that usually ends up in an argument for years. There really should be two awards for defenseman. But as far as the Selke is concerned, a player that isn’t used to kill penalties is just strange for a best all around defensive forward award.
 
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dabeechman said:
"To the defense player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position."

You telling me Karlsson last year with a -26 on the worst defensive team in the league was the best all around defenseman last year? Let's not pretend it is anything other than a recognition of offensive numbers for a defenseman.
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He was an even plus minus 5v5 despite the team being heavily in the minus without him. His plus minus was bad solely due to the Sharks pulling the goalie all the time to try to score, and then a few more goals against while on the PP. There were reasons for not going with Karlsson last year but he massively improved his team with him on the ice. That speaks to “all around ability” because it doesn’t matter if your overall ability is heavily skewed to offense as long as you’re making a greater impact overall than others. With the Selke, offense can factor in in the sense of possession time and transition ability, etc preventing the other team from playing offensively against you, but actual production shouldn’t have an impact.
 
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nhlfan9191 said:
This has been a debate that usually ends up in an argument for years. There really should be two awards for defenseman. But as far as the Selke is concerned, a player that isn’t used to kill penalties is just strange for a best all around defensive forward award.
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They should take away Datsyuk’s 4 Selkes tbh
 
LOFIN said:
I'm not really a stats guy, but I've heard and read that Matthews is actually pretty damn good defensively by pretty much all metrics. Like miles ahead of the rest of the top centers in the league, apart from Barkov maybe.

It should be Barkov's, he's probably the new Bergeron in that he will be nominated pretty much every year and win multiple trophies during his career. It's a reputation trophy for the most part, it's hard to define defensive play purely based on stats and those who vote have no time to actually watch enough of potential candidates.
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It’s always weird to see the reputation award thrown so often aroune with Selke

As in Bergeron wasn’t universally considered the best at his job and the stats backed it up and as deserved he kept winning Selkes’s

Yet always with Selke we hear it’s reputation award

This year Barkov was an absolute monster and he should 100% win this& not because it’s a reputation award
 
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Hockey Outsider said:
Has there ever been a Selke trophy finalist who wasn't in the top five in PK TOI (among forwards) on his own team? I'm struggling to find even one example.
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To answer my own question - we have official TOI data going back to 1998. That covers 26 seasons. There have been 78 Selke trophy finalists.

Here's where they've ranked on their team (among forwards) in PK TOI:
  • 1st place - 39 times
  • 2nd place - 14 times
  • 3rd place - 10 times
  • 4th place - 9 times
  • 5th place or lower - 6 times
Since 1998, 68% of Selke trophy finalists were top two on their team in PK TOI (among forwards). 92% of Selke trophy finalists were in the top four.

There have only been six times where a player ranked 5th (or lower) in PK TOI. Pavel Datsyuk did it four times (2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012). Patrice Bergeron did that once (2019 - and this is somewhat deceptive since he missed 17 games - he led all forwards on a per-game basis). And now Matthews.

This doesn't necessarily prove that Matthews is a bad choice. But it's very unusual for someone to be a Selke finalist while getting such a small amount of ice time on the penalty kill.
 
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mistaclick said:
Matthews: 93 shot blocks (tied 2nd for forwards) and 85 takeaways (2nd for forwards)
Barkov: 50 shot blocks (tied for 79th) and 61 takeaways (tied for 20th)

Barkov kills penalties and is excellent in face offs, but I can see why Matthews would be nominated for best defensive forward.. all while potting 69 with over 100 points. Shouldn’t be a runaway win for Barkov.
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You know there are quite a few other stats as well?

Haven’t seen the last numbers but for good amount of the season Barkov was the most effective player in the league and he was like on the ice for 9 goals against total with Forsling 5on5 all season

If neither Matthews or Staal have any 1st place votes over Barkov that voters rights to vote should be taken away

mistaclick said:
Then why’s he only got 20 tucks and 80 points on the year?

With all that OZ time you’d think he’d have more..
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He had 80 in 73, he was again on a +90 point pace
 
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Considering Matthews single handedly shutdown the best goal scorer we've ever seen, one who'll break all the records after Ovi breaks them first....surely he deserves a Selke for it. In fact, the whole trophy should be named after him.
 
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