Martin Skoula
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- Oct 18, 2017
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You’d think Staal playing 15 minutes all situations TOI would be a bigger issue.
2023-24 Frank J. Selke Trophy finalists: Aleksander Barkov, Auston Matthews, Jordan Staal | Winner: Aleksander Barkov
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You’d think Staal playing 15 minutes all situations TOI would be a bigger issue.
Fledgemyhedge
Registered User
and their influence. Yes Ofcourse. By what metric should he here? Matthews of the Columbus blue jackets doesn’t sniff this
McDonald19
Registered User
I don’t think it should be used as a barometer for defensive ability, but awards should be based on what happened not what players are capable of. Great PK forwards like Barkov are bringing extra defensive value to the team in that regard. I don’t think Matthews should be out of the running for not doing the same, but I would say he’d have to be an equivalent amount better 5v5 in order to make up for it.
Old Boys Club
Anita Max Wynn
- Nov 3, 2013
- 6,882
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Equally reputation driven and narrative driven, I'd argue.
I'm not talking about 2022, I'm talking about this year where Toronto media were saying things like 'If he hits 70 you have to give him the Hart'. They started the narrative very early, but it didn't pick up steam and ultimately Matthews fell short of 70 and the point leaders developed a substantial gap over him. Why should 70 goals guarantee him the Hart, when players like MacK, Kuch, McDavid are obviously more valuable to their given teams?
I mean Kuch > Mac > McDavid > Matthews this year, no argument.
I saw one show all season where anything close was said like that, but most shows I saw said it was Kuch or Mac, and some said McDavid even though it clearly wasn't him, which I think was also pandering to the Edmonton crowd because there is no realistic argument where it isn't Kuch/Mac.
I think they generally just pander to the Canadian market...
Arthur Morgan
Registered User
not sure who Matthews of the Columbus Blue Jackets is sorry
but Barkov on Columbus wouldn't win either so I dunno what ur really trying to say here.
people also tried to say Matthews winning the Hart was only because of the media as well but then he wins the Lindsay making those comments mean pretty much nothing
Staal’s possession numbers were some of the best in the league and he had the best xGA/60 5v5 among both forwards and defensemen. He was on for a lot more goals against than expected though because of an .882 on-ice SV%. So I guess it depends on whether he was just unlucky or his expected numbers aren’t painting an accurate picture. I still thought he looked good this year, though Canes fans are suggesting a couple guys on the team have passed him. He probably deserved it more a couple years ago
Fledgemyhedge
Registered User
thank god somebody finally said it. You should actually have to execute to win the award not just be capable
Jordan Staal was a finalist for the Selke in 2009. Is the 15 year gap the longest ever for a Selke finalist? Regardless, very impressive.
Fledgemyhedge
Registered User
not sure why you’re being intentionally obtuse(maybe trying to be funny?) but I don’t disagree. It would be harder for even Barkov but the degree at which it’s helping matthews is hardly comparable.
Matthews deserved his hart and Lindsay and is a pretty good two way forward but what makes him a selke candidate? The only part of my post you didn’t respond to.
I mean there’s some serious credibility issues here. I watched selke finalist Marner get blown the f*** up last night. That one was even more of a joke. Atleast matthews is solid
Dazed and Confused
Ludicrous speed, GO!
When was the last time a team had two different Selke nominees in back-to-back years? Dats and Zetterberg?
Having two elite defensive performers in Matthews and Marner, you'd think the Leafs would do better than... 19th in GA.
Having two elite defensive performers in Matthews and Marner, you'd think the Leafs would do better than... 19th in GA.
Why would all situations matter? Defense on the PP is basically non-existent.
Staal averaged 15:15 of ES+PK time, Barkov 16:07 and Matthews 17:34. But Staal’s portion of ES time that was in defensive situations would be higher. According to PuckiQ, he played 45.2% of his ES minutes against elite competition while Barkov was at 42.5, and Matthews at 39.8
JackSlater
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- Apr 27, 2010
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The Selke is in a pretty bad spot, as various voters openly admit to considering criteria that is by definition irrelevant to the award. Best not to care that much I guess, but I don't have faith in random media members to judge defensive play, better yet when they admit that they consider offence.
SomeDude
Registered User
Someone with more free time than me needs to comb through posts histories to see how many people saying Matthews doesn’t have to PK to win a Selke also said Crosby can’t possibly be good defensively because he doesn’t PK.
Hockey Outsider
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- Jan 16, 2005
- 9,589
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Yes, it's easily the record. Nobody else is even close.
Longest gaps between years as a Selke trophy finalist
- 14 years - Jordan Staal (2010 - 2024)
- 6 years - Dave Poulin (1987 - 1993)
- 6 years - Steve Kasper (1982 - 1988)
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dabeechman
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- Sep 12, 2006
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Staal was a -14 on the 4th best defensive team this year with 30 points? Ok...
Comparing to an ex-selke winner in Kopitar, they aren't even close to comparable this season.
Comparing to an ex-selke winner in Kopitar, they aren't even close to comparable this season.
Silky Johnson
I wish you all the bad things in life.
He doesn't look that good to me.
I only watch the leafs regularly in the playoffs, so admittedly my sample size is small... but I guess that's the problem isn't it.
Seattle King
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- Aug 19, 2022
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Matthews and Staal have no business being finalists here. Congrats on your trophy, Alexander.
Its like because Bergeron retired the Selke committee has taken the year off.
Kopitar is still in the league, dummies.
Its like because Bergeron retired the Selke committee has taken the year off.
Kopitar is still in the league, dummies.
One thing that’s interesting with the Selke though is that it doesn’t seem like games played really matters all that much like it does with other awards as long as you play roughly 60 games or more. It’s funny because I feel like even with the Norris, an 8 game gap like with Barkov and Matthews would be brought up more
- Mar 4, 2004
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I know it's not how the trophy is awarded but PK time should be a factor. And I'm not just saying this because of Matthews.
It's supposed to be for the player who best excels in the defensive aspects of the game, not another offensive award. It's stupid that scoring a bunch of points is required to have a chance at winning the award but playing on the PK is not.
It's supposed to be for the player who best excels in the defensive aspects of the game, not another offensive award. It's stupid that scoring a bunch of points is required to have a chance at winning the award but playing on the PK is not.
Luigi Lemieux
Registered User
I think it was a lifetime achievement nomination of sorts. He's been very deserving of a selke nomination or a win for many years in the true sense of the award.
dabeechman
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- Sep 12, 2006
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Been like this for years with the Norris. It isn't about the best defensive player, it's about the best offensive player that happens to be on the blueline.
GeeoffBrown
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- Jul 6, 2007
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