Speculation: 2023-24 Armchair GM thread

[thestonedkoala]

Zucc will be 36 and Foligno 32 before this season starts. I'm fine waiting until later in the year to worry about re-signing them.

Hartman will be 29 and is probably due a nice raise after the last 2 seasons of riding Kap's coat tails.

So...same procedure different GM? Going into the season without an extension in place is a bad idea or at least trading them. Because at the deadline we'll hear the same ol excuse. We can't trade them because of the playoffs. And then they walk at the end of the season or they get extended for too long and too much and then they fall off the cliff.

Rinse and repeat.

For once I'd like to see the Wild trade a guy like Zuccs for a premium instead of letting someone like him walk for nothing.

 

[Wabit]

So...same procedure different GM? Going into the season without an extension in place is a bad idea or at least trading them. Because at the deadline we'll hear the same ol excuse. We can't trade them because of the playoffs. And then they walk at the end of the season or they get extended for too long and too much and then they fall off the cliff.

Rinse and repeat.

For once I'd like to see the Wild trade a guy like Zuccs for a premium instead of letting someone like him walk for nothing.

TBF the players that walked (outside of Dumba last year) would have gotten gotten a 3rd at best as a premium at the TDL. MN is mostly a retirement home where guys on their last legs go for one last hurrah before shuffling off into the sunset.

I don't care if players walk after the season for nothing, with the caveat that the team is in the Playoffs. I simply see it as they met the terms of their contract, same as any other contract job.

 

[Spurgeon]

I'm surprised there isn't more discussion regarding a potential extension for Zuccarello or more info on Hartman or Foligno. Are we going into the season without an extension in place for any of them?

There shouldn’t be any extensions for any of these guys. Maybe Hartman if he wants to give us a great deal again (he shouldn’t).

The UFA class next season is loaded with 27-30 year old talent that we should be targeting (Lindholm & Hanifin are my top 2).

 

[thestonedkoala]

TBF the players that walked (outside of Dumba last year) would have gotten gotten a 3rd at best as a premium at the TDL. MN is mostly a retirement home where guys on their last legs go for one last hurrah before shuffling off into the sunset.

I don't care if players walk after the season for nothing, with the caveat that the team is in the Playoffs. I simply see it as they met the terms of their contract, same as any other contract job.

I mean when has Minnesota had a guy like Zuccarello be available?

I see it was a business where you use assets to build a better team in the future. This is one of the biggest reasons why Minnesota has never really done a rebuild or even a retool successfully and why they are always mired in mediocrity.

You don't think an extra first and a third and a prospect wouldn't help Minnesota in the future?

 

[DC4MVP]

I mean when has Minnesota had a guy like Zuccarello be available?

You don't think an extra first and a third and a prospect wouldn't help Minnesota in the future?

With respect, nobody is going to pay a first round pick for Zuccarello. Not last year, not this year, not any year.

 

[thestonedkoala]

With respect, nobody is going to pay a first round pick for Zuccarello. Not last year, not this year, not any year.

He's almost a ppg player. Every year there are one or two players that end up getting a first no one expects to get a first.

 

[Ban Hammered]

So...same procedure different GM? Going into the season without an extension in place is a bad idea or at least trading them. Because at the deadline we'll hear the same ol excuse. We can't trade them because of the playoffs. And then they walk at the end of the season or they get extended for too long and too much and then they fall off the cliff.

Rinse and repeat.

For once I'd like to see the Wild trade a guy like Zuccs for a premium instead of letting someone like him walk for nothing.

It's rinse and repeat with you too. Guys walk at the end of contracts. That is a common practice all over the NHL. Just because someone is in their last year doesn't mean extension or trade.

 

[DC4MVP]

He's almost a ppg player. Every year there are one or two players that end up getting a first no one expects to get a first.

Dude is 35 going to be 36 before the season and his 2nd half looked to be a clear drop-off even before Kirill got hurt.

We couldn't even get anything worthwhile to trade Dumba. What makes you think a team is going to dish a 1st in a very deep 2023 draft for a 35 year old winger who's success is seemingly tied to playing with a superstar Kaprizov?

I know we tend to over-value our own fan favorite players but I promise you, nobody was going to offer a 1st rounder (nor will offer) a 1st rounder for Zucc.

 

[TaLoN]

If players never walked at the end of contracts, free agency wouldn't be a thing. Happens all the time with every team every year.

 

[thestonedkoala]

If players never walked at the end of contracts, free agency wouldn't be a thing. Happens all the time with every team every year.

I mean yes and no. A lot of free agents are rentals at the end of the season that don't sign back to the team they were traded to.

It's rinse and repeat with you too. Guys walk at the end of contracts. That is a common practice all over the NHL. Just because someone is in their last year doesn't mean extension or trade.

When was the last time Minnesota traded a rental?

 

[57special]

So...same procedure different GM? Going into the season without an extension in place is a bad idea or at least trading them. Because at the deadline we'll hear the same ol excuse. We can't trade them because of the playoffs. And then they walk at the end of the season or they get extended for too long and too much and then they fall off the cliff.

Rinse and repeat.

For once I'd like to see the Wild trade a guy like Zuccs for a premium instead of letting someone like him walk for nothing.

I can never figure out whether you really think this way, or if you are just trying to be provocative.

Locking down two players before you have to when there are a lot of questions as to how much good hockey they have ahead of them seems to be a recipe for disaster. If they are having bad, or even mediocre years(like last year for Foligno), having him extended will make him less, not more valuable at the TDL.

Bottom line is that BG is doing just the right thing waiting till 2024 to make a decision on either.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

When was the last time Minnesota traded a rental?

O'Reilly

 

[thestonedkoala]

I can never figure out whether you really think this way, or if you are just trying to be provocative.

Locking down two players before you have to when there are a lot of questions as to how much good hockey they have ahead of them seems to be a recipe for disaster. If they are having bad, or even mediocre years(like last year for Foligno), having him extended will make him less, not more valuable at the TDL.

Bottom line is that BG is doing just the right thing waiting till 2024 to make a decision on either.

Zuccarello and Foligno are free agents at the end of this season. They can't wait until 2024 to wait to extend or not.

O'Reilly

Did O'Reilly skate for the Wild?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Zuccarello and Foligno are free agents at the end of this season. They can't wait until 2024 to wait to extend or not.


Did O'Reilly skate for the Wild?

Calendar 2024.

No, Still factually correct.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Calendar 2024.

No, Still factually correct.

So they don't do well but Minnesota is in a playoff position. Someone offers a second for Foligno and a good prospect and a second for Zuccarello. Does Minnesota take it knowing that it could hurt their playoff position or do they let them walk?

Also not factually correct because Minnesota didn't make the decision to trade O'Reilly. They couldn't have kept him. They accepted a portion of his cap hit for a draft pick.

I think Guerin did move someone at the deadline but I need to double check.

 

[57special]

Zuccarello and Foligno are free agents at the end of this season. They can't wait until 2024 to wait to extend or not.


Did O'Reilly skate for the Wild?

You know that next season is the 23-24 one, right, and that 2024 starts in January?

My point still stands. Zucc will likely be worth more unextended at the TDL. Foligno, too.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

So they don't do well but Minnesota is in a playoff position. Someone offers a second for Foligno and a good prospect and a second for Zuccarello. Does Minnesota take it knowing that it could hurt their playoff position or do they let them walk?

Also not factually correct because Minnesota didn't make the decision to trade O'Reilly. They couldn't have kept him. They accepted a portion of his cap hit for a draft pick.

I think Guerin did move someone at the deadline but I need to double check.

I do not expect Guerin to be a seller while the team is in a playoff position. Same as most every other GM. The Devils did not sell Miles Wood. The Kraken did not sell Carson Soucy. The Avalanche did not sell JT Compher. And on and on.

Essentially what you're asking is, "should we make the decision now to not try to be a playoff team this year"? I do not expect them to say "yes".

 

[Ban Hammered]

When was the last time Minnesota traded a rental?

Who cares. If a player can be more valuable to his team staying, even in a contract year, then he would be traded for picks...the player is going to and should stay.
Minnesota wants to be a playoff team and playoff teams do not trade rentals very often if ever. So unless you are saying Minnesota should not be a playoff team, then they can trade those guys now. But if they are in a playoff position or fighting for one, they will not be traded.

 

[TaLoN]

Did O'Reilly skate for the Wild?

He was traded for, then traded away as a rental.

Prior to that Staal was traded away as a rental.

 

[Wabit]

When was the last time Minnesota traded a rental?

When was the last time MN had a rental worth trading? Even Dumba (from reports) had very little interest last season.

Talbot for Gus (I don't count this is selling a rental, Talbot forced the move)
Rask for futures.
Sturm for Jost
Staal for MarJo
Hendricks for a 7th

Koivu killed any trade his last year in MN. Bjugstad is the only guy MN signed to a contract that I can think of recently to walk recently and still be in the NHL.

Then there is the Fiala, Granny, Coyle, Nino, Zucker, etc trades where they either had term or RFA status so not true rentals.

 

[thestonedkoala]

You know that next season is the 23-24 one, right, and that 2024 starts in January?

My point still stands. Zucc will likely be worth more unextended at the TDL. Foligno, too.

And my original point still stands that Russo has only talked about a potential extension for Foligno. They have not really discussed anything regarding Hartman or Zuccarello, which is suspicious.

He was traded for, then traded away as a rental.

Prior to that Staal was traded away as a rental.

That's who I was thinking about. Staal was moved in the off-season for Johansson.

O'Reilly wasn't traded for. His cap hit was traded for. Funny enough O'Reilly is one of those free agents that was available.

 

[TaLoN]

And my original point still stands that Russo has only talked about a potential extension for Foligno. They have not really discussed anything regarding Hartman or Zuccarello, which is suspicious.

They definitely shouldn't be talking extension with Zucc based on his play in the 2nd half of last season

O'Reilly wasn't traded for. His cap hit was traded for.

You may want the cap transaction, but that doesn't exist without the player. Thus the player was traded for and traded away no matter how you try to spin it.

 

[Webster]

Last week Zuccarello told Norwegian media that he expects to play another 2-3 years in the NHL.

Hmm...what does he mean by this? Maybe he doesn't even want to re-sign with the Wild. My guess is that his agent has told him to wait, there will probably be more $$ on the table elsewhere.

 

[Wabit]

And my original point still stands that Russo has only talked about a potential extension for Foligno. They have not really discussed anything regarding Hartman or Zuccarello, which is suspicious.

I don't find it suspicious. MN has a young top-10 pick (among other prospects) that could/would/should take one of Hartman or Zucc's lineup spots in the 24-25 season. There is also a lot of interesting players that could hit free agency next offseason who could fill those top-6 wing spots.

The Foligno extension talks don't surprise me. He's coming off of a down/injured year (so lowballing him is a little easier than the top line players). There isn't an inhouse replacement the intensity (or leadership) he adds to the team. Mainly he's a GMBG type of player.

 

[Wabit]

Last week Zuccarello told Norwegian media that he expects to play another 2-3 years in the NHL.

Hmm...what does he mean by this? Maybe he doesn't even want to re-sign with the Wild. My guess is that his agent has told him to wait, there will probably be more $$ on the table elsewhere.

I think any smart agent is telling their clients to wait until next year (or current UFA to take short term deals) since the flat cap should be over and the salary cap should jump next offseason.