Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

I don't particularly care for it because I think Goodie and Kunin are both guys that shouldn't be higher in the lineup than the 4th line. But the reality is that any spot in the lineup that Smith has is a spot he hasn't earned. They are spots he's trying to develop his way into. In the development context, anywhere in the lineup for someone who is still needing to learn to play at NHL speed is good for his development even with bad linemates. I don't expect that to be the case this whole season but early on while he's still finding his footing and we're committing to his development, anywhere in the lineup is fine enough for his development. Hell, a healthy scratch isn't a bad idea for him either to watch a game or two.

I guess the plus side to this is that smith won’t have to work to retrieve pucks off the boards or behind the net his responsibilities are lessened and he can focus on trying to score

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I guess the plus side to this is that smith won’t have to work to retrieve pucks off the boards or behind the net his responsibilities are lessened and he can focus on trying to score

Hypothetically, yes. The issue is that him focusing on trying to score only helps if he has someone to get him the puck and I just don't see Goodrow and Kunin as those types of guys. I'm at a stage with Smith where I don't think it matters where he plays in the lineup. Any experience is good experience because he's going to need a good amount of time to catch up to playing at NHL speed because he's pretty consistently a step or two behind in a lot of areas. Since it's a development year, I don't think it matters what the team does with Smith. There are plenty of viable options that would help to varying degrees. But right now, he reminds me of Dylan Gambrell. lol

 

[hohosaregood]

Hypothetically, yes. The issue is that him focusing on trying to score only helps if he has someone to get him the puck and I just don't see Goodrow and Kunin as those types of guys. I'm at a stage with Smith where I don't think it matters where he plays in the lineup. Any experience is good experience because he's going to need a good amount of time to catch up to playing at NHL speed because he's pretty consistently a step or two behind in a lot of areas. Since it's a development year, I don't think it matters what the team does with Smith. There are plenty of viable options that would help to varying degrees. But right now, he reminds me of Dylan Gambrell. lol

I think Goodrow's puck retrieval has been really solid so far. I could see him working well with Smith at the moment. It'd be better if it also included Wennberg instead of Kunin but we'll have to wait for Celebrini to slot back in.

 

[Jargon]

Goodrow can also play center, which means he can help Smith out on the faceoffs and defensive priorities. One issue Smith has been having is that he loses every faceoff he takes, so every shift starts with him having to defend. If Goodrow can get possession for them, it means Smith might get a few more touches on the puck -- which honestly, he desperately needs. Right now, he's barely got the puck on his stick during the game and that's not a great way to build confidence.

 

[Zalos]

How is it looking for Celebrini, guys? Could it be long term?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I think Goodrow's puck retrieval has been really solid so far. I could see him working well with Smith at the moment. It'd be better if it also included Wennberg instead of Kunin but we'll have to wait for Celebrini to slot back in.

Goodrow's done some good work defensively and the puck retrieval is okay but the doing something with it part is still a bit shaky and Smith would need that as well to do much with it given his play quality thus far. I agree Wennberg would be a lot better than Kunin. Honestly, if they were to run a 3rd line of Wennberg-Smith-Grundstrom, I think that'd do a lot better. They could do that without Celebrini if Eklund is in the lineup or vice-versa but without both, it's not really possible.

 

[coooldude]

How is it looking for Celebrini, guys? Could it be long term?

Nobody knows. Week to week. First game back earliest is likely Colorado at home, as he didn't travel. There have been no rumors or updates since he was placed on IR.

Likely it's a hip pointer so hopefully just a 1-4 week recovery.

 

[Zalos]

Nobody knows. Week to week. First game back earliest is likely Colorado at home, as he didn't travel. There have been no rumors or updates since he was placed on IR.

Likely it's a hip pointer so hopefully just a 1-4 week recovery.

Ok, thanks for the answer! Hoping he comes back soon for you guys.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

Hypothetically, yes. The issue is that him focusing on trying to score only helps if he has someone to get him the puck and I just don't see Goodrow and Kunin as those types of guys. I'm at a stage with Smith where I don't think it matters where he plays in the lineup. Any experience is good experience because he's going to need a good amount of time to catch up to playing at NHL speed because he's pretty consistently a step or two behind in a lot of areas. Since it's a development year, I don't think it matters what the team does with Smith. There are plenty of viable options that would help to varying degrees. But right now, he reminds me of Dylan Gambrell. lol

He’s been bad but not that bad lol

 

[Pinkfloyd]

He’s been bad but not that bad lol

It's only three games and two of them were pretty bad and the third one was less bad but still bad. He's not NHL ready and Gambrell was also not NHL ready when he was playing here. There's certainly more hope for Smith. He shows more skill potential and awareness but he's not up to speed yet. He's not going to look this way for that long, imo. But that long to me could still be 20-30 games.

 

[Anomie2029]

It's only three games and two of them were pretty bad and the third one was less bad but still bad. He's not NHL ready and Gambrell was also not NHL ready when he was playing here. There's certainly more hope for Smith. He shows more skill potential and awareness but he's not up to speed yet. He's not going to look this way for that long, imo. But that long to me could still be 20-30 games.

This is the thing - it's clear Smith has the skills and ability to be an NHLer, but it's more him getting up to speed of the game. I don't have many (if any) doubts that he'll get to speed.

It's also why I don't think those calling for him to be with the Cuda are right. I think Smith's key issues can only be worked on in the NHL.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

This is the thing - it's clear Smith has the skills and ability to be an NHLer, but it's more him getting up to speed of the game. I don't have many (if any) doubts that he'll get to speed.

It's also why I don't think those calling for him to be with the Cuda are right. I think Smith's key issues can only be worked on in the NHL.

I think the NHL is the best place for him since we're in a development season but I do think the Cuda is a viable option for him. He won't learn and develop as much as being in the NHL but a season's worth of experience in the AHL would not be worthless either. If the team wanted to toll his ELC, he's playing at a level that would justify that decision, imo.

 

[Jargon]

This is the thing - it's clear Smith has the skills and ability to be an NHLer, but it's more him getting up to speed of the game. I don't have many (if any) doubts that he'll get to speed.

It's also why I don't think those calling for him to be with the Cuda are right. I think Smith's key issues can only be worked on in the NHL.

I agree. I’ve mentioned this before but I remember taking a few years away from playing hockey (beer league but stay with me) and coming back and feeling like I could not keep up with the flow of the game. I’d always be late to the play, I’d barely ever get to touch the puck because of it and when I finally got it I’d rush the play because the whole flow was off. I can only imagine how jarring it is to go from college to the NHL. He needs tiiiime.

 

[Sharksfan66]

The only story I'm aware of is that Canes management threatened to fire him if he played Alex Lyon in goal instead of Kochetkov during the playoffs. Unless you've got another one. Seemed like an overreaction by Carolina to me. It's the playoffs. Play your best guys.

The Chicago Wolves really are a weird case. They have been for years. Still are.

Maybe that was it? I don’t remember details but the vibe I got was parent team got pissed that he prioritized winning a minor league award over developing guys for the big club (which I would imagine is the whole point of a developmental league).

I’ve been thinking about this ever since he went into lockdown mode and benched Smith and Goose in game 1 to try to squeak out a win in a season that really doesn’t mean much for this team.

But if it was just one guy, that’s pretty benign. Especially if it’s a goalie. So maybe Warso deserves the benefit of the doubt…

 

[timorous me]

Maybe that was it? I don’t remember details but the vibe I got was parent team got pissed that he prioritized winning a minor league award over developing guys for the big club (which I would imagine is the whole point of a developmental league).

I’ve been thinking about this ever since he went into lockdown mode and benched Smith and Goose in game 1 to try to squeak out a win in a season that really doesn’t mean much for this team.

But if it was just one guy, that’s pretty benign. Especially if it’s a goalie. So maybe Warso deserves the benefit of the doubt…

I think the real test is going to come next year, maybe in the last quarter of this season. Because that's when we should expect to see not only Celebrini and Smith in the lineup, but also Mukhamadullin, Bystedt (hopefully), and ideally even a few other young guys (Askarov included, though goalie is a different beast).

 

[Star Platinum]

Maybe that was it? I don’t remember details but the vibe I got was parent team got pissed that he prioritized winning a minor league award over developing guys for the big club (which I would imagine is the whole point of a developmental league).

I’ve been thinking about this ever since he went into lockdown mode and benched Smith and Goose in game 1 to try to squeak out a win in a season that really doesn’t mean much for this team.

But if it was just one guy, that’s pretty benign. Especially if it’s a goalie. So maybe Warso deserves the benefit of the doubt…

Here's the article:

Lone Wolves (Part 1): How Did It Come To This?

 

[tiburon12]

Smith is totally gonna get his first point on a slick saucer feed to Kunin for a knee-drop,1-T bardown rip.

 

[coooldude]

Struggling Sharks rookie Smith urged to breathe by Warsofsky

San Jose Hockey Now’s Sheng Peng spoke to Sharks center Will Smith and coach Ryan Warsofsky about the 19-year-old’s early season struggles.

www.nbcsportsbayarea.com

Coach and player seem to be on the same page and urge patience for everyone.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

It's only three games and two of them were pretty bad and the third one was less bad but still bad. He's not NHL ready and Gambrell was also not NHL ready when he was playing here. There's certainly more hope for Smith. He shows more skill potential and awareness but he's not up to speed yet. He's not going to look this way for that long, imo. But that long to me could still be 20-30 games.

I think if he’s not trending in the right direction by his 9th game played he’ll get sent down no need to burn a year off of his contract bit would be stupid to waste it if he’s clearly not getting it

 

[coooldude]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5847981/2024/10/17/nhl-2024-25-season-teams-analysis

Some highlights from a paywalled analysis

• The league is bigger, taller, and more American than 3 years ago
• SJS is the sixth youngest team at 27.2 years, average 29. BUF is clearly youngest, EDM oldest. Smith and Celly are two of the top 5 youngest.
• League average height is 6'1.6", Sharks are 5th shortest averaging 6'1". Notably, COL is shortest with 12 players listed between 5'10" and 6'. Bruins are biggest by far, with 16 players listed above 6'3". Gush is second shortest to Stank.
• Sharks are near the middle in weight - thicc bois. 199.8 avg versus the league at 201.1. TOR is big at 210 avg, COL is smallest at 192 avg.
• The Sharks are near league average for Canadians at 40%, but are tied for 2nd for Europeans at 45% (FLA; MIN #1 at 50%). This naturally means we are second lowest for Americans at 13.6% - only EDM is lower, and they are tops for Canadians, eh?
• 42.6% of the league came from the first round, 46.1% from round 2+, and 11.3% undrafted. Sharks are at the median with 9 first rounders, 10 later, and 3 undrafted. this first round dependence is slightly higher than I would have expected.

 

[Barrie22]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5847981/2024/10/17/nhl-2024-25-season-teams-analysis

Some highlights from a paywalled analysis

• The league is bigger, taller, and more American than 3 years ago
• SJS is the sixth youngest team at 27.2 years, average 29. BUF is clearly youngest, EDM oldest. Smith and Celly are two of the top 5 youngest.
• League average height is 6'1.6", Sharks are 5th shortest averaging 6'1". Notably, COL is shortest with 12 players listed between 5'10" and 6'. Bruins are biggest by far, with 16 players listed above 6'3". Gush is second shortest to Stank.
• Sharks are near the middle in weight - thicc bois. 199.8 avg versus the league at 201.1. TOR is big at 210 avg, COL is smallest at 192 avg.
• The Sharks are near league average for Canadians at 40%, but are tied for 2nd for Europeans at 45% (FLA; MIN #1 at 50%). This naturally means we are second lowest for Americans at 13.6% - only EDM is lower, and they are tops for Canadians, eh?
• 42.6% of the league came from the first round, 46.1% from round 2+, and 11.3% undrafted. Sharks are at the median with 9 first rounders, 10 later, and 3 undrafted. this first round dependence is slightly higher than I would have expected.

Do these stats take into account injured plays like landeskog in colorado?

 

[coooldude]

Do these stats take into account injured plays like landeskog in colorado?

I think they just pulled whatever active roster was listed. So since Landeskog is on LTIR he's probably in there. Don't know for sure.

 

[Barrie22]

I think they just pulled whatever active roster was listed. So since Landeskog is on LTIR he's probably in there. Don't know for sure.

Considering Colorado is still one of the favorites in the west with landeskog, shows that the big uproar on this board about heights and weights means absolutely nothing if you have talent throughout the lineup.

 

[coooldude]

Considering Colorado is still one of the favorites in the west with landeskog, shows that the big uproar on this board about heights and weights means absolutely nothing if you have talent throughout the lineup.

I'm not sure Colorado alone proves any point. It's notable because they're still a good team and yet they are small. But the other bottom 6 are, ascending: SEA, MIN, MTL, SJS, ANA. After that, EDM although they got smaller this offseason, then NSH, CAR, PHI, and you're into the majority of teams, who average 73.5-74" (6'1.5-6'2"). I didn't share the data to support or counteract any beliefs about size or nationality, I just thought it was interesting to "get to know" the team and league a bit better.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

Smith is totally gonna get his first point on a slick saucer feed to Kunin for a knee-drop,1-T bardown rip.

Nah it’ll get on a bad line change Kostim gets a garbage goal