Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[TheBeard]

I simply disagree about Pietrangelo, he wasn't at the same level in 2023 as he was in 2019 but he was still stellar, definitely a legit #1

He was bad in the playoffs. If the team has any aspirations of a long run they have to manage his minutes better.

Trouba's wife's residency program ends this year and he's going to be moved after the season. So they will have room to get the Miller deal done. Not looking to give up a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for Miller (which is the compensation it would take to make it worth his while to sign the offersheet) when the 1st is going to be inside of the top 10 once again.

What would you say Miller’s worth is on the trade market?

 

[weastern bias]

He was bad in the playoffs. If the team has any aspirations of a long run they have to manage his minutes better.

He made the single most important play of their cup run (intentionally injuring the rightful Conn Smythe leader and having the chache to get a slap on the wrist for it), he was basically their MVP

That's heady play, right there

 

[Juxtaposer]

I have always liked Liljegren and think he's a super ideal target for us at the stage that we're at. 25 year old two-way RHD, probably not much more upside but can play on a second pair just fine. He's got his flaws (soft, inconsistent at times, mediocre in the playoffs) but I don't really think those are that important to us right now. He's comfortably be our second best D and would probably be a pretty good partner for Ferraro or even Thrun.

Can't imagine it would take more than a pick.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Rangers gonna be super cash-strapped next year once they re-sign Igor so here's a question. If the team has a decent showing this year (not playoffs but not dead last), would you offer sheet K'andre Miller?

Possibly. I'd need to know how the team is addressing the right side when Ceci and Rutta are likely gone and what we plan to do with at least Ferraro, Thrun, Vlasic, and Walman who all have next year before expiring plus our closer to ready prospects like Mukhamadullin and Cagnoni. I would think Miller is a great idea if we can at least get a real top pairing level RHD to pair him with.

 

[TheBeard]

Possibly. I'd need to know how the team is addressing the right side when Ceci and Rutta are likely gone and what we plan to do with at least Ferraro, Thrun, Vlasic, and Walman who all have next year before expiring plus our closer to ready prospects like Mukhamadullin and Cagnoni. I would think Miller is a great idea if we can at least get a real top pairing level RHD to pair him with.

I’m Intrigued by the idea of getting a top pairing d-man under contract before we have to break the bank for the smiths and celebrities. Waiting to draft one only to have to be patient with their development (which isn’t a sure thing either) may end up wasting prime years for the core.

 

[Jargon]

I have always liked Liljegren and think he's a super ideal target for us at the stage that we're at. 25 year old two-way RHD, probably not much more upside but can play on a second pair just fine. He's got his flaws (soft, inconsistent at times, mediocre in the playoffs) but I don't really think those are that important to us right now. He's comfortably be our second best D and would probably be a pretty good partner for Ferraro or even Thrun.

Can't imagine it would take more than a pick.

Yeah, I think it balances the D corp a lot. I’d love to eventually see like:

Walman - Ceci
Ferraro - Liljegren
Muhk - Thrun

If Muhk grows and gets better, you eventually do:

Muhk - Ceci
Walman - Liljegren
Ferraro - Thrun

I know that leaves out Benning, Rutta and Vlasic eventually but… it’s a fairly mobile, fun D-corp.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Yeah, I think it balances the D corp a lot. I’d love to eventually see like:

Walman - Ceci
Ferraro - Liljegren
Muhk - Thrun

If Muhk grows and gets better, you eventually do:

Muhk - Ceci
Walman - Liljegren
Ferraro - Thrun

I know that leaves out Benning, Rutta and Vlasic eventually but… it’s a fairly mobile, fun D-corp.

I like that first lineup a ton. Between Walman, Liljegren, and Mukhamadullin there's someone who can handle the puck on every pairing, which we currently lack.

Liljegren probably isn't a player you want if you're a contender, but I have lots of time for him on the Sharks.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I’m Intrigued by the idea of getting a top pairing d-man under contract before we have to break the bank for the smiths and celebrities. Waiting to draft one only to have to be patient with their development (which isn’t a sure thing either) may end up wasting prime years for the core.

I agree with those concerns but at least this season will afford us a pretty good look at guys like Mukhamadullin and Thrun in the NHL. I'm hoping to see Mukhamadullin a lot this season. If he shows real promise, he's an RFA at season's end and you can lock him in to a good deal.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

Wonder what kind of prospects the sharks could get from the AV’s or Oilers for Blackwood, if their goalies continue to bomb this season

 

[Star Platinum]

Is a #1 necessary though? I don't know that you need a true #1 to win. Florida just won with a team defense approach of a trio of #2/3 types (Ekblad, Montour, Forsling) and then a trio of #6's (Mikkola, OEL, and Kulikov).

I think the idea that you need a #1 is (and sort of always has been) a myth. Too many good teams out there that just have a group of solid D-Men and have success to think a #1 is an essential need. If you luck into one via the draft, great. I don't think it's something worth holding out for or trading for though given the cost is historically prohibitive.

Plus, the Sharks have had three #1 defenseman types over the years in Boyle, Burns, and Karlsson. How much did having those guys ever really elevate the team over where they were before we acquired them? Plus none of them were impact defensive defenseman. I think Doug Wilson, having been a high-end defenseman had a blind spot there while he continued to ignore the fact that the Sharks team had pretty weak wing play.

Now, you want to gift the Sharks a guy like Nicklas Lidstrom or Chris Chelios, I'm not going to say no to those players, but the Sharks have so many holes on their roster that short of getting too many centers (assuming Celebrini and Smith work out as your 1/2), as long as the Sharks are identifying good players at any position that lift up the overall talent of the team, I'm fine with whomever they pick.

From a personal preference, I'd like to see the Sharks become a high-end puck possession team after having to watch too many years of dump and chase hockey, but I'll be content with whatever wins.

 

[OrrNumber4]

1) There's a big difference between a true top defenseman like Karlsson and Burns vs. a solid #1 type like Boyle.

2) It's very difficult to get that type of defenseman outside of the draft. The Sharks took a big swing on Burns being a late-bloomer. They also had to make a lot of compromises with Karlsson.

3) If you don't have that top defenseman, you must make it up down the middle and in goal.

 

[weastern bias]

None of Boyle, Burns or Karlsson (especially Sharks Karlsson) were ever legit #1 defenseman because they were all defensive liabilities, they were big point scorers and very high level offensive threats that made their team better but they were all varying levels of trash in their own end

The Sharks have arguably never had a top-flight #1D in the history of the franchise

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

None of Boyle, Burns or Karlsson (especially Sharks Karlsson) were ever legit #1 defenseman because they were all defensive liabilities, they were big point scorers and very high level offensive threats that made their team better but they were all varying levels of trash in their own end

The Sharks have arguably never had a top-flight #1D in the history of the franchise

All 3 of those guys were miles better players than 2023 Pietrangelo.

 

[weastern bias]

All 3 of those guys were miles better players than 2023 Pietrangelo.

Sharks Erik Karlsson, who was such a porous defensive player that he was a net 0 goal differential presense while scoring 100 points and leading the league in even strength scoring, was not better than 2023 Alex Pietrangelo

I can see an argument for 2016-2019 Brent Burns, but he was such a sieve in his own end that it's not clear as day either

 

[LadyStanley]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1844516477317357794

 

[TheBeard]

Sharks Erik Karlsson, who was such a porous defensive player that he was a net 0 goal differential presense while scoring 100 points and leading the league in even strength scoring, was not better than 2023 Alex Pietrangelo

I can see an argument for 2016-2019 Brent Burns, but he was such a sieve in his own end that it's not clear as day either

I really think it’s important to factor in Alex was playing with a Stanley cup roster while Erik Karlsson was playing with Noah Gregor.

 

[redwhiteandblue]

What’s up with Asakarov? What’s plan with him?

 

[Sandisfan]

What’s up with Asakarov? What’s plan with him?

Get healthy then games in the A. Then see from there.

 

[TheBeard]

What’s up with Asakarov? What’s plan with him?

Should be playing 60-70 games for Sharks. I'd draft him high if I were you.

 

[Star Platinum]

What’s up with Asakarov? What’s plan with him?

He'll be running our PP1

 

[Barrie22]

He'll be running our PP1

Oh i thought that was reserved for Kunin.

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

I really think it’s important to factor in Alex was playing with a Stanley cup roster while Erik Karlsson was playing with Noah Gregor.

Karlsson gets worse the better the team he's on gets. I somehow dislike Pietrangelo probably even more than Karlsson but I'm not sure Karlsson has ever been an all around better defensemen than Pietrangelo.

 

[wickedwitch]

In the salary cap era only 3 (arguably 4 depending on how you feel about John Carlson) teams have won the cup without a legitimate #1 defenseman

2006 Hurricanes
2017 Penguins (Letang didn't play in the playoffs)
2024 Panthers

It's essentially a must if you have aspirations of winning a title

Carlson was (and is) a #1. He's on the level of someone like Letang or Pietrangelo.

 

[TheBeard]

Karlsson gets worse the better the team he's on gets. I somehow dislike Pietrangelo probably even more than Karlsson but I'm not sure Karlsson has ever been an all around better defensemen than Pietrangelo.

all-around? Probably not, but in his absolute prime his offense was worth 5 times whatever his defensive struggles were.