Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[DG93]

Every NHLer is a hockey god compared to regular humans or even good hockey players.

That's not why we're on this message board, or at least not many of us.

If people say someone is terrible, I generally understand them to mean "terrible in relation to other NHLers." The bigger problem on HFB is that people project prospects to their ceiling, then get disappointed when they "bust" into merely hockey demi-gods in the AHL, or people shamelessly attack players as awful trash that they were obsessing over just a few years prior, before we had the reality of the NHL set in.

As it pertains to Ferraro, he's not terrible, but he definitely was bad compared to his peers last year. Maybe he has a solid role on a better team, maybe not, it's all speculation. On our team, we need him to play in a top pairing or second pairing role, and last year he struggled. Hopefully this year he'll be better but it's unlikely he'll all of a sudden become a completely different player.

Good point. Maybe in a bottom pairing at even strength + PK role, Ferraro would actually be solid. But what we know from watching him the past 3 years is that he absolutely gets crushed in a top pair (and even 2nd pair) role.

 

[Cas]

If he was a terrible defenseman, he wouldn’t be starting his 6 th season in the best league on Earth.
His track record supersedes your opinion of him.

He's spent all five of his previous seasons so far with one of the worst teams in the history of the sport.

The biggest comparison between the two is their shot-blocking ability. Both are known for it. Makes both quite valuable to teams.

Many players who block tons of shots are doing so because they cannot obtain or retain possession of the puck, or clear it out of the zone reliably, so they just get peppered with shots.

Blocking lots of shots is often a sign that a player is bad, not good.

 

[Alaskanice]

He's spent all five of his previous seasons so far with one of the worst teams in the history of the sport.


Many players who block tons of shots are doing so because they cannot obtain or retain possession of the puck, or clear it out of the zone reliably, so they just get peppered with shots.

Blocking lots of shots is often a sign that a player is bad, not good.

I have no doubt that many in the profession of hockey would disagree with that.

 

[Hodge]

Seider, Tanev, McNabb, Parayko, Weegar and Matt Roy blocked even more shots than Ferraro did last season. Those guys must really suck ass.

 

[Cas]

I have no doubt that many in the profession of hockey would disagree with that.

That's fine, I don't care. There are plenty of people in professional sports who believe totally bonkers things about their own sport.

 

[Anomie2029]

All I'm saying is the Sharks should have traded Ferraro last year when some people in the league thought he was worth something.

 

[OrrNumber4]

With all the youngsters who should be debuting on the ice over the next two seasons, (Mukhamadullin, Cagnoni, Thrun, Dickinson, etc.) Ferraro, Benning, and Walman are not a bad veteran group to support those players.

 

[TheBeard]

Many players who block tons of shots are doing so because they cannot obtain or retain possession of the puck, or clear it out of the zone reliably, so they just get peppered with shots.

Blocking lots of shots is often a sign that a player is bad, not good.

I think that’s a pretty unfair assessment to make about him considering he was miles, MILES better than a vast majority of the 4 other players out there with him during those times. Why people tend to only want to single him out has always been one of the weirdest narratives on the sharks board. I never understood it other than people’s minds are made up so they choose to only look for the things to back up those opinions.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I think that’s a pretty unfair assessment to make about him considering he was miles, MILES better than a vast majority of the 4 other players out there with him during those times. Why people tend to only want to single him out has always been one of the weirdest narratives on the sharks board. I never understood it other than people’s minds are made up so they choose to only look for the things to back up those opinions.

There's nothing that cuts a fan more than a prospect who doesn't live up to her unrealistic expectations...

 

[matt trick]

I think if you look around the league you’ll see an awful lot of teams who’d be happy with Ferraro as their number 5. Outside Boston, New Jersey, Vegas, Carolina, Buffalo (4 good LHD) and probably NYI most teams would happily pencil him in at 4/5. Edmonton and Detroit are horrible on RHD but he’d be their 4th/5th best dmen. He’s not perfect, but he’s solid. He’s pretty much always been in a top 4 four in San Jose starting with wookiesitting Burnsie, but if he’s anchoring a third pairing you’re probably pretty content with him.

Unfortunately, he’s left handed so you need a pretty rare guy on the third pairing to be an ideal fit. With 32 teams, Dmen aren’t real available. A $3.25M cap hit is also pretty cheap for this year and next.

I wouldn’t be surprised if SJ gets offers of a 1st at the deadline this year (where Ceci, Savard, Petterson, Gavrikov, and Pionk are likely best available UFAs) because he can solve a two year bottom pairing problem. I’d imagine Grier will keep him for another year for leadership (and lack of D) and move him at the next deadline for a 2nd+3rd or something.

I will say if any of the desperate/hungry and middling teams- Detroit, Ottawa, Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Washington, LAK, Utah, Buffalo, Seattle, maybe Winnipeg- offer this year or next years first, you take it. Getting a 14-20th first and being in position to move it plus secondary pieces for another top 12 prospect like Dickinson would be a major coup. Same concept goes for Walman and Granlund, though I think Ferraro is more likely.

I’m not anticipating too many sellers this year. Bad teams don’t have much, lot of really good teams but until Florida adds D depth or Edmonton fixes either RHD or goalie, they all have warts. I also see Carolina, NYR, Boston, Dallas, Tampa, Vegas (with wingers added), Vancouver, Colorado (with goaltending and returns of top wingers), and Nashville as conference finals threats.

Vatrano, Granlund, Petterson, Mantha, Hall, Ceci, and Savard are likely the best deadline assets, provided Winnipeg isn’t moving Pionk and/or Ehlers. It wouldn’t surprise me if Hall, Vatrano, and Petterson are re-signed. As such, guys with a year left at lower costs- Anderson, Ferraro, Walman, Gundbransson may be in demand.

Someone else- Buffalo?- will blow it up, but it does look like SJ will be well positioned as a seller, even with just ok assets.

 

[Scoresberg]

Hi Sharks fans,

I'm thinking about adding Jake Walman to my Fantasy team. On Dailyfaceoff, it shows Walman as your 1st PP defenseman. How set in stone his place is on that 1st unit, i.e. is there someone else there who could easily replace him on that unit?

 

[coooldude]

Hi Sharks fans,

I'm thinking about adding Jake Walman to my Fantasy team. On Dailyfaceoff, it shows Walman as your 1st PP defenseman. How set in stone his place is on that 1st unit, i.e. is there someone else there who could easily replace him on that unit?

Common question this preseason but asked very respectfully so thank you.

As of now there's no D that is rostered that could take over for Walman and he does seem to be on PP1. Some fans hope Mukhamadullin could, but he needs to get healthy and then play regular minutes. The other potential alternative is 5F's. You should know that Walman may be more of a point triggerman as Celebrini may be running the PP a bit more from the right side/ rotating to right point and high slot, or Granlund on the left, but nonetheless the unit could be promising.

Edit: mods, maybe we need a stickied thread for fantasy questions as our team gets relevant again in a world where fantasy is much more popular than it used to be? Maybe not, just a suggestion.

 

[tiburon12]

Last year my 30-second predictions ended up being pretty accurate, let's see if lightning strikes twice:

• Celebrini puts up 52 points, Smith 34.
• Smith hits a rut and goes down to the AHL during the break for the 4 Nations Faceoff and it pays off for him, surging to almost a ppg in the last 15 NHL games.
• Couture skates in a dozen or so games after new year, inconsistently.
• Askarov puts up worse numbers withe the cuda than he did with MIL, but overall is improving. Gets 10 games with the Sharks and performs well enough given the defense in front of him.
• Sharks finish last again but lose both lotteries to CBJ and CGY and pick 3rd. Vegas' pick ends up in the mid 20s
• Grier successfully flips Granlund, Sturm, and Vanecek at the deadline
• Kostin surprises us with a 15g 35-40pt season, mostly cleaning up the garbage and being in or forechecks
• Muk ends the seasons as our best defenseman, though is still raw.

 

[Grinner]

There's nothing that cuts a fan more than a prospect who doesn't live up to her unrealistic expectations...

How about a player making a big stink about wanting more money and then holds out until he gets it. Then proceeds to sluff off because he got paid.

 

[STL Shark]

The Sharks will have to suck until they luck themselves into a legitimate top defenseman to anchor them. I think you can manage to find blue liners that work for you from 2-6 but 1 is ridiculously difficult to find.

Is a #1 necessary though? I don't know that you need a true #1 to win. Florida just won with a team defense approach of a trio of #2/3 types (Ekblad, Montour, Forsling) and then a trio of #6's (Mikkola, OEL, and Kulikov).

I think the idea that you need a #1 is (and sort of always has been) a myth. Too many good teams out there that just have a group of solid D-Men and have success to think a #1 is an essential need. If you luck into one via the draft, great. I don't think it's something worth holding out for or trading for though given the cost is historically prohibitive.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Is a #1 necessary though? I don't know that you need a true #1 to win. Florida just won with a team defense approach of a trio of #2/3 types (Ekblad, Montour, Forsling) and then a trio of #6's (Mikkola, OEL, and Kulikov).

I think the idea that you need a #1 is (and sort of always has been) a myth. Too many good teams out there that just have a group of solid D-Men and have success to think a #1 is an essential need. If you luck into one via the draft, great. I don't think it's something worth holding out for or trading for though given the cost is historically prohibitive.

Not in the strictest sense is it necessary but for this team with its situation, I don't see how you try to build a blue line in either fashion without a top draft pick invested into it. Maybe Dickinson will be the top draft pick in an outlier sort of sense and we build an outlier sort of blue line to compete. Right now, the team's blue line is going to be the biggest reason we don't make a playoff run moving forward. I think Walman was a solid add since they got paid for it but I would categorize him closer to the trio of #6's than I would a trio of #2 or 3 guys.

 

[weastern bias]

Is a #1 necessary though?

In the salary cap era only 3 (arguably 4 depending on how you feel about John Carlson) teams have won the cup without a legitimate #1 defenseman

2006 Hurricanes
2017 Penguins (Letang didn't play in the playoffs)
2024 Panthers

It's essentially a must if you have aspirations of winning a title

 

[Jargon]

Apparently Liljegren is being shopped. I’d love to see what he can do on the Sharks…

 

[Hodge]

Apparently Liljegren is being shopped. I’d love to see what he can do on the Sharks…

Only if it's another Walman special.

 

[weastern bias]

I'd definitely take Liljegren if we could get him at good value, he'd be in contention to be our best RHD, he's still pretty young and his contract doesn't extend past any of our big ELC pieces other than Eklund, he'd be a great gamble

 

[TheBeard]

Rangers gonna be super cash-strapped next year once they re-sign Igor so here's a question. If the team has a decent showing this year (not playoffs but not dead last), would you offer sheet K'andre Miller?

 

[STL Shark]

In the salary cap era only 3 (arguably 4 depending on how you feel about John Carlson) teams have won the cup without a legitimate #1 defenseman

2006 Hurricanes
2017 Penguins (Letang didn't play in the playoffs)
2024 Panthers

It's essentially a must if you have aspirations of winning a title

Pietrangelo was no longer a #1 for Vegas in 2023. He played #1 minutes, but not at a #1 level. So that means 2017, 2018, 2023, and 2024 are won without legit #1's.

Like I said, it's nice if you organically luck into that guy without necessarily going out of your way to try and find that guy, but it isn't essential to winning. Especially in the case of the Sharks that will have had at least 5 years worth of top 10 draft picks (including 3-4 years in the top 5) to build the rest of their core group with BPAs rather than need a select few to carry them in the way you need a #1 on a not as deep team to do.

If the BPA happens to be a defenseman and he turns into a #1 great, but don't go out and target the boom/bust guy that might be a #1 or might be nothing or go out and spend a bunch of draft/prospect capital to go out and trade for an established #1. Focus on building a solid collective group on the backend and you'll be fine.

Rangers gonna be super cash-strapped next year once they re-sign Igor so here's a question. If the team has a decent showing this year (not playoffs but not dead last), would you offer sheet K'andre Miller?

Trouba's wife's residency program ends this year and he's going to be moved after the season. So they will have room to get the Miller deal done. Not looking to give up a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for Miller (which is the compensation it would take to make it worth his while to sign the offersheet) when the 1st is going to be inside of the top 10 once again.

 

[weastern bias]

I simply disagree about Pietrangelo, he wasn't at the same level in 2023 as he was in 2019 but he was still stellar, definitely a legit #1

 

[TheBeard]

I simply disagree about Pietrangelo, he wasn't at the same level in 2023 as he was in 2019 but he was still stellar, definitely a legit #1

He was bad in the playoffs. If the team has any aspirations of a long run they have to manage his minutes better.

Trouba's wife's residency program ends this year and he's going to be moved after the season. So they will have room to get the Miller deal done. Not looking to give up a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for Miller (which is the compensation it would take to make it worth his while to sign the offersheet) when the 1st is going to be inside of the top 10 once again.

What would you say Miller’s worth is on the trade market?

 

[weastern bias]

He was bad in the playoffs. If the team has any aspirations of a long run they have to manage his minutes better.

He made the single most important play of their cup run (intentionally injuring the rightful Conn Smythe leader and having the chache to get a slap on the wrist for it), he was basically their MVP

That's heady play, right there