Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Alaskanice]

You're probably right that his value is higher now than it'll ever be, but aren't we done with the tear down? Why are we moving valuable players out? Who exactly in our system is going to replace Zetterlund? We have no prospects like him, so we'd just be looking for another Zetterlund immediately.

Thanks for making this point. I think some get “trade happy.” Zetterlund is certainly a part of the core, in my opinion.

 

[Friday]

Plus, Zetterlund works his ass off and wants to be here. Stuff off the stat sheet like positive culture is so important for a team that's going to take its licks with a a bunch of under 23's on it

 

[matt trick]

Zetterlund is an ideal middle six winger- he plays hard, he’s solid both ways, he’s young, and he can play either wing. He also seems like he’s got a good attitude and is a leader. That’s pretty much the dream 5th/6th winger who can move up when there are injuries. We have one under 23 winger, Eklund, who’d I’d bet on being better. If three of Musty, Bysted, and Cherny and one of the next two firsts all pass him up, we’d still want a guy like him on the third line.

Zetts is an easier decision. The calls on Ferraro, Walman, and Ceci are more complicated.

 

[STL Shark]

IMO Zetterlund has $5Mx6 written all over him if he has another season similar to last.

Currently has a projection of 4 years $3.7M. I'd offer him 6 years at $25M total or something and see what happens. I don't think he will play 19 mins a night like he did last year, but the team should be slightly better so his numbers might not dip too far. Guessing around 20 goals and 40 points.

 

[Star Platinum]

I suspect this will be a controversial opinion but I think we should trade Zetterlund instead of re-signing him. I think Zetterlund's value will never be higher than it is right now and that we could likely get a first and a bit more for him in a trade.

I think that's a worthy opinion. I'm not so sold on any of our wings that I wouldn't consider trading them for the right price.

 

[LilLeeroy]

You're probably right that his value is higher now than it'll ever be, but aren't we done with the tear down? Why are we moving valuable players out? Who exactly in our system is going to replace Zetterlund? We have no prospects like him, so we'd just be looking for another Zetterlund immediately.

Because whether you're blowing it up or coming off a Stanley Cup win you should be constantly trying to generate value.

If a team is willing to overpay for Zetterlund because he is only an extremely cheap one-year deal and coming off a season where he was a mainstay on the 1st line and PP, the Sharks should be all over that.

 

[DG93]

To echo everything already said about Zetterlund, those stud Tampa Bay weren't just built with Point, Kucherov, Hedman, Stamkos, Sergachev, and Vasilevsky. They also made a big effort to extend guys like Palat, Killorn, etc. to these types of deals that Jux proposed. I think he'll end being a great middle-6 winger that works well on different lines as a complementary player. You definitely keep him.

 

[LilLeeroy]

To echo everything already said about Zetterlund, those stud Tampa Bay weren't just built with Point, Kucherov, Hedman, Stamkos, Sergachev, and Vasilevsky. They also made a big effort to extend guys like Palat, Killorn, etc. to these types of deals that Jux proposed. I think he'll end being a great middle-6 winger that works well on different lines as a complementary player. You definitely keep him.

And he hasn't show anything yet besides that he can put up some points with prime opportunities playing on the worst team in the cap era. If some other team values him as a "great middle-6 winger" you take that trade.

 

[DG93]

And he hasn't show anything yet besides that he can put up some points with prime opportunities playing on the worst team in the cap era. If some other team values him as a "great middle-6 winger" you take that trade.

He has the playstyle of a solid 3rd line winger who can move up to the top-6 in a pinch, that's not bad value for 4M/yr.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

And he hasn't show anything yet besides that he can put up some points with prime opportunities playing on the worst team in the cap era. If some other team values him as a "great middle-6 winger" you take that trade.

I think that's too vague to really get behind. The Sharks are at a point now where they can be a lot more selective about what they target for guys they may be willing to put on the table. This team really only needs defensemen and if a top-four caliber defenseman or better requires the Sharks to put Zetterlund on the table as part of the package then yeah I'd be open to that. However, playoff team 1st round picks or that caliber of a prospect isn't going to interest me much. I'd rather keep Zetterlund, pay him some reasonable figure and wait until prospects push him down the lineup before entertaining a trade.

 

[sampler]

Zetterlund is a keeper. I think he's a 30-30 guys to be. I would extend him long term for solid $$ asap. 6yrs, 30M would be just fine with me. I see him a solid player to continue a rebuild with. We dont need to trade 25 year olds for more picks. We can trade 33 year olds for picks, that's fine, but we also need NHL players entering their primes to build around.

Here's my hot take: Smith should start in the AHL. I went to the game last night and he is not NHL ready yet. He's not bad, but he cannot be a top 6 forward in the NHL yet, so hes better off getting big minutes in the A.

Second hot take: I was wrong about this team. They are going to be very near the bottom. Celebrini looks very good, but dickinson, smith, musty, and all the other top prospects (other than cagnoni) look like they are definitely nowhere near NHL ready. I was hoping that a few of the top kids would be ready, but aside form celly, they just arent. The only pleasant surprise is Gushkin, who may be ready to really go off on a big way.

third hot take: Wennberg was yet another grier special to go along with Lindbom, Kunin, Sturm, G Smith, Borroughs, Benning, and the rest of the garbage army he has assembled. 5M for this guy? he was so amazingly bad defensively (let alone offensively). It's preseason so I am likely overreacting, but maybe there is a reason no one wants him as he plays for 5 different teams in the last 5 years. I think he will sorely disappoint.

fourth hot take: Warsofsky hasnt figured out coaching just yet. The sharks do not have a breakout. They cannot come out of thier own zone with any speed, so they will fail to score. Again, preseason, but argh. Definitely resembles last year.

The only hope is to have two scoring lines if Gush can explode on the scene. Toffoli-celebrini-Gushkin and the Lund line. That might be enough, but we'll see...

For now though, Musty and dick belong in the O. Bystedt and smith belong in the A. Thompson and cagnoni looked close, but not sure about cags defensively yet, so he likely needs AHL seasoning too. Wish we coulda seen Mukh....

 

[LilLeeroy]

Zetterlund is a keeper. I think he's a 30-30 guys to be. I would extend him long term for solid $$ asap. 6yrs, 30M would be just fine with me. I see him a solid player to continue a rebuild with. We dont need to trade 25 year olds for more picks. We can trade 33 year olds for picks, that's fine, but we also need NHL players entering their primes to build around.

Here's my hot take: Smith should start in the AHL. I went to the game last night and he is not NHL ready yet. He's not bad, but he cannot be a top 6 forward in the NHL yet, so hes better off getting big minutes in the A.

Second hot take: I was wrong about this team. They are going to be very near the bottom. Celebrini looks very good, but dickinson, smith, musty, and all the other top prospects (other than cagnoni) look like they are definitely nowhere near NHL ready. I was hoping that a few of the top kids would be ready, but aside form celly, they just arent. The only pleasant surprise is Gushkin, who may be ready to really go off on a big way.

third hot take: Wennberg was yet another grier special to go along with Lindbom, Kunin, Sturm, G Smith, Borroughs, Benning, and the rest of the garbage army he has assembled. 5M for this guy? he was so amazingly bad defensively (let alone offensively). It's preseason so I am likely overreacting, but maybe there is a reason no one wants him as he plays for 5 different teams in the last 5 years. I think he will sorely disappoint.

fourth hot take: Warsofsky hasnt figured out coaching just yet. The sharks do not have a breakout. They cannot come out of thier own zone with any speed, so they will fail to score. Again, preseason, but argh. Definitely resembles last year.

The only hope is to have two scoring lines if Gush can explode on the scene. Toffoli-celebrini-Gushkin and the Lund line. That might be enough, but we'll see...

For now though, Musty and dick belong in the O. Bystedt and smith belong in the A. Thompson and cagnoni looked close, but not sure about cags defensively yet, so he likely needs AHL seasoning too. Wish we coulda seen Mukh....

Once again you fundamentally misunderstand what this team is trying to do.

Wennberg is there to take the tough assignments from Celebrini/Smith, and he was overpayed a bit for that. The purpose is to develop Celebrini and Smith, not to win a lot of games coming off a season where they were worst team of the millennia.

Smith is already starting to generate chances, so he should be given as much rope as possible in the NHL.

 

[coooldude]

Welcome back to reality!

With any normal injuries, we'll still have stretches where we look as bad or nearly as bad as last year. Hopefully the highs are higher. 60-65 points means we're losing 2.5 games for every win. And that's just the roughly crowd sourced median, meaning we all think collectively that we're just as likely to be at or below that level (and so does Vegas).

It's gonna be a long season.

As for Zetterlund, it's all about what the deal is coming back. If somebody overvalues him as a top end middle 6 winger and we can get a solid defensive prospect or young D player out of it, to bolster our supporting cast in 4-6 years where we have the biggest weakness, you might consider it. If it's just picks, it better be very high picks, because we just extend the rebuild the more we keep selling assets.

 

[Star Platinum]

Welcome back to reality!

With any normal injuries, we'll still have stretches where we look as bad or nearly as bad as last year. Hopefully the highs are higher. 60-65 points means we're losing 2.5 games for every win. And that's just the roughly crowd sourced median, meaning we all think collectively that we're just as likely to be at or below that level (and so does Vegas).

It's gonna be a long season.

As for Zetterlund, it's all about what the deal is coming back. If somebody overvalues him as a top end middle 6 winger and we can get a solid defensive prospect or young D player out of it, to bolster our supporting cast in 4-6 years where we have the biggest weakness, you might consider it. If it's just picks, it better be very high picks, because we just extend the rebuild the more we keep selling assets.

Yep. Zetterlund is not so good that we need to plan around him, but not interested in trading him just to trade him. One thing that's for sure is that he wouldn't be getting Top 2 line minutes on very many teams, so he has some motivation to want to stay here if they can work out a reasonable deal. Just as long as we're realistic about what level of player he is.

 

[CupfortheSharks]

With Vlasic and Mukhamudulin still injured. I predict that Jack Thompson is 7th defenseman to open the season. If Benning continues to play as poorly as he did yesterday we could see Thompson on the 3rd pair. Cagnoni is still in camp but it’s clear to me that he needs time in the AHL.

 

[YUPPY 2 7 10 11]

With Vlasic and Mukhamudulin still injured. I predict that Jack Thompson is 7th defenseman to open the season. If Benning continues to play as poorly as he did yesterday we could see Thompson on the 3rd pair. Cagnoni is still in camp but it’s clear to me that he needs time in the AHL.

I was at the game last night, and it was tough to watch. Cici played poorly and seemed to just take up space. Eklund, Graf and Celebrini were the only ones who really stood out. Smith didn’t even get going until the mid-second period, and that was after Celebrini got hurt. The entire team needs to pay more attention to their defensive assignments; they seemed disorganized. It’s shaping up to be another long year, and we might be looking at a top draft pick again, possibly #1 or #2.

 

[Cas]

I was at the game last night, and it was tough to watch. Cici played poorly and seemed to just take up space. Eklund, Graf and Celebrini were the only ones who really stood out. Smith didn’t even get going until the mid-second period, and that was after Celebrini got hurt. The entire team needs to pay more attention to their defensive assignments; they seemed disorganized. It’s shaping up to be another long year, and we might be looking at a top draft pick again, possibly #1 or #2.

This was always going to be true.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I feel like Ceci and Benning will get a ton of rope, the former because of his background and the latter because he's recovering from injury. If Cagnoni or Thompson are doing very well in the AHL, their best bet for NHL time will be if Thrun/Rutta/Mukhamadullin don't play well.

Puck-moving from the defense is the biggest need; if the Sharks can get that at even a league-average level they'd be a playoff contender (with a little luck).

 

[tiburon12]

I was at the game last night, and it was tough to watch. Cici played poorly and seemed to just take up space. Eklund, Graf and Celebrini were the only ones who really stood out. Smith didn’t even get going until the mid-second period, and that was after Celebrini got hurt. The entire team needs to pay more attention to their defensive assignments; they seemed disorganized. It’s shaping up to be another long year, and we might be looking at a top draft pick again, possibly #1 or #2.

I wonder how much of the bad D is ridding themselves of whatever system (or lack there of) they had last year and learning something new.

But even system aside the D looked like they were playing at a slower game speed. Was not good

 

[STL Shark]

Zetterlund is a keeper. I think he's a 30-30 guys to be. I would extend him long term for solid $$ asap. 6yrs, 30M would be just fine with me. I see him a solid player to continue a rebuild with. We dont need to trade 25 year olds for more picks. We can trade 33 year olds for picks, that's fine, but we also need NHL players entering their primes to build around.

Here's my hot take: Smith should start in the AHL. I went to the game last night and he is not NHL ready yet. He's not bad, but he cannot be a top 6 forward in the NHL yet, so hes better off getting big minutes in the A.

Second hot take: I was wrong about this team. They are going to be very near the bottom. Celebrini looks very good, but dickinson, smith, musty, and all the other top prospects (other than cagnoni) look like they are definitely nowhere near NHL ready. I was hoping that a few of the top kids would be ready, but aside form celly, they just arent. The only pleasant surprise is Gushkin, who may be ready to really go off on a big way.

third hot take: Wennberg was yet another grier special to go along with Lindbom, Kunin, Sturm, G Smith, Borroughs, Benning, and the rest of the garbage army he has assembled. 5M for this guy? he was so amazingly bad defensively (let alone offensively). It's preseason so I am likely overreacting, but maybe there is a reason no one wants him as he plays for 5 different teams in the last 5 years. I think he will sorely disappoint.

fourth hot take: Warsofsky hasnt figured out coaching just yet. The sharks do not have a breakout. They cannot come out of thier own zone with any speed, so they will fail to score. Again, preseason, but argh. Definitely resembles last year.

The only hope is to have two scoring lines if Gush can explode on the scene. Toffoli-celebrini-Gushkin and the Lund line. That might be enough, but we'll see...

For now though, Musty and dick belong in the O. Bystedt and smith belong in the A. Thompson and cagnoni looked close, but not sure about cags defensively yet, so he likely needs AHL seasoning too. Wish we coulda seen Mukh....

I don't see where the 30-30 projection comes from. He played 19 minutes a night (including PP1) and didn't really get close to those numbers. His minutes will only decrease as the rest of the roster around him improves (i.e. he's already going to be PP2 this year thanks to Toffoli).

He's a good 3rd liner that won't look totally out of place in spot duty in a top 6 role. Needs to take the next step as a PK guy this year and be able to carry those minutes as opposed to playing 45 seconds a night on the PK. Rather him focus his game there as opposed to trying to morph into a 60 point guy that he's unlikely to ever become.

 

[Hodge]

Even being a consistent 20-20 guy (easier said than done) would make Zetts a legit 2nd line winger production-wise.

 

[Patty Ice]

I think he could play the "Leonard" role on a line with Smilthy eventually, if not this year. If they develop some chemistry, I could see a few 50 points seasons out of him.

 

[PattyLafontaine]

You're probably right that his value is higher now than it'll ever be, but aren't we done with the tear down? Why are we moving valuable players out? Who exactly in our system is going to replace Zetterlund? We have no prospects like him, so we'd just be looking for another Zetterlund immediately.

Because Zetterlund'ss value is in the next 4-5 years and this team isn't likely to be contending until he's 28/29.

This year the Sharks are going to likely be a bottom 3 team and even if they draft someone like Hensler or Schaefer they aren't going to be ready for 2-3 years.

Replacing 35-40 point Middle 6 players is easier than trying to find top 4 quality d-men.

 

[one2gamble]

Because Zetterlund'ss value is in the next 4-5 years and this team isn't likely to be contending until he's 28/29.

This year the Sharks are going to likely be a bottom 3 team and even if they draft someone like Hensler or Schaefer they aren't going to be ready for 2-3 years.

Replacing 50 point Middle 6 players is easier than trying to find top 4 quality d-men.

You risk becoming the sabres or the wild if you don't keep some decent players around during the rebuild

 

[Hodge]

Because Zetterlund'ss value is in the next 4-5 years and this team isn't likely to be contending until he's 28/29.

This year the Sharks are going to likely be a bottom 3 team and even if they draft someone like Hensler or Schaefer they aren't going to be ready for 2-3 years.

Replacing 50 point Middle 6 players is easier than trying to find top 4 quality d-men.

Which is exactly why nobody is going to trade us a top 4 quality dman for Zetterlund.

So what if he's 28/29 by the time the Sharks are good again? He would have 2-3 years left on the proposed extension and likely be a useful piece on a good team for those seasons. Not every single player on the next good Sharks team will be 22 years old.

As long as we're not signing him for 8 years or outrageous money I see no downside to extending Zetterlund. If he really does end up being an integral part of another team's requested trade return for a top 4 defenseman then we can still trade him on the new contract.