Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[TheBeard]

Broberg is a much better prospect than Lundkvist and a far rarer and more valuable player type. Also IIRC I was shouted down for wanting to trade Bordeleau for Lundkvist which would have been a great trade for us.

Based on? Nils doesn’t look like he’s gonna be back after this year. Thomas is more than two years younger.

 

[Hodge]

Based on? Nils doesn’t look like he’s gonna be back after this year. Thomas is more than two years younger.

Based on Bordeleau being a small soft winger who can’t crack the lineup of the 2023-24 San Jose Sharks while Lundkvist is a contributing depth piece on a contending team at a much more valuable position?

I mean we literally traded for Studnicka a few days ago to avoid having to call up Bordeleau to play his natural position. He’s a bust.

 

[TheBeard]

Based on Bordeleau being a small soft winger who can’t crack the lineup of the 2023-24 San Jose Sharks while Lundkvist is a contributing depth piece on a contending team at a much more valuable position?

I mean we literally traded for Studnicka a few days ago to avoid having to call up Bordeleau to play his natural position. He’s a bust.

He’s 21. Lundkvist is a liability in Dallas and has been healthy scratched.

 

[Hodge]

He’s 21. Lundkvist is a liability in Dallas and has been healthy scratched.

Bordeleau is 22 in like a week and is arguably farther from the NHL than he was 2 years ago. Even if he makes it at this point it will certainly be as a winger and not a center. I still wouldn’t even bet on that.

By games played and usage Lundkvist is the clear #6 defenseman on the best team in the Central. If you don’t understand how that’s significantly more valuable than a small one dimensional winger who can’t make one of the worst teams in recent NHL history, you can’t be helped.

 

[TheBeard]

Bordeleau is 22 in like a week and is arguably farther from the NHL than he was 2 years ago. Even if he makes it at this point it will certainly be as a winger and not a center. I still wouldn’t even bet on that.

By games played and usage Lundkvist is the clear #6 defenseman on the best team in the Central. If you don’t understand how that’s significantly more valuable than a small one dimensional winger who can’t make one of the worst teams in recent NHL history, you can’t be helped.

You’re right. He is the clear number 6 on the best team in the central and certainly looked the part in their last game when he… oh wait, he didn’t play.

 

[Gecklund]

A 22 year old 6’4 215 defenseman with elite skating ability drafted 8th overall who already has 200+ games of high level pro experience “doesn’t really have value”? I would love to hear the logic behind that statement.

200+ games that are all pretty mediocre at best. Aren’t you the one that says draft position doesn’t matter once they are in the NHL? If you want to bring that into the question then Tyler Myers must be worth a ton. Broberg was seen as a pretty big reach at the time too. Broberg isn’t going to be more than a third pairing D so hope Grier doesn’t take on one of the worst contracts in the league for another third pairing LHD.

He’s 21. Lundkvist is a liability in Dallas and has been healthy scratched.

Yeah Lunkvist is basically Barrie very lite. Absolute defensive liability out there but can offer a bit of offense.

 

[bigsjfan]

Broberg feels like Mueller 2.0 to me. Similar physical assets, both drafted in the top half of the 1st and very similar starts to their NHL career. He is defiantly a throw in for any trade he is a part of.

 

[TheBeard]

200+ games that are all pretty mediocre at best. Aren’t you the one that says draft position doesn’t matter once they are in the NHL? If you want to bring that into the question then Tyler Myers must be worth a ton. Broberg was seen as a pretty big reach at the time too. Broberg isn’t going to be more than a third pairing D so hope Grier doesn’t take on one of the worst contracts in the league for another third pairing LHD.


Yeah Lunkvist is basically Barrie very lite. Absolute defensive liability out there but can offer a bit of offense.

So he’s basically Addison, who we got for a 6th. Far cry from the late first Dallas gave up.

 

[Hodge]

You’re right. He is the clear number 6 on the best team in the central and certainly looked the part in their last game when he… oh wait, he didn’t play.

He has played in 24/30 games for the Stars this season which is 6th most among their defensemen. How many games has Bordeleau played this season for one of the worst teams ever assembled?

200+ games that are all pretty mediocre at best. Aren’t you the one that says draft position doesn’t matter once they are in the NHL? If you want to bring that into the question then Tyler Myers must be worth a ton. Broberg was seen as a pretty big reach at the time too. Broberg isn’t going to be more than a third pairing D so hope Grier doesn’t take on one of the worst contracts in the league for another third pairing LHD.


Yeah Lunkvist is basically Barrie very lite. Absolute defensive liability out there but can offer a bit of offense.

If Broberg can become Myers 2.0 for us that would be a terrific outcome and well worth sacrificing some cap space for a few years that we weren’t going to spend anyway. Myers has had a solid 15 year career as a #4 defenseman.

So he’s basically Addison, who we got for a 6th. Far cry from the late first Dallas gave up.

What are you even arguing at this point? Did I ever suggest trading a 1st for Lundkvist? No, it was just Bordeleau, who has done nothing but further cement himself as a bust in the year and a half since while Lundkvist has developed into a regular for a great team’s blueline.

 

[tiburon12]

NHL trade tiers: Who could be on the move this season?

Difference-makers like Steven Stamkos, Tyson Barrie and Vladimir Tarasenko are among the players potentially joining top Stanley Cup contenders.

www.espn.com

Nice for ESPN to call Ferraro "elite". Pump those tires!

 

[Gecklund]

He has played in 24/30 games for the Stars this season which is 6th most among their defensemen. How many games has Bordeleau played this season for one of the worst teams ever assembled?

If Broberg can become Myers 2.0 for us that would be a terrific outcome and well worth sacrificing some cap space for a few years that we weren’t going to spend anyway. Myers has had a solid 15 year career as a #4 defenseman.


What are you even arguing at this point? Did I ever suggest trading a 1st for Lundkvist? No, it was just Bordeleau, who has done nothing but further cement himself as a bust in the year and a half since while Lundkvist has developed into a regular for a great team’s blueline.

If you believe Broberg can turn into Myers, man I don’t know what to tell you. That’s was a comment on your draft position point not the player type. They don’t play particularly similar at all. I’d say Fowler is a closer comparable but not really at the same level.

 

[TheBeard]

What are you even arguing at this point? Did I ever suggest trading a 1st for Lundkvist? No, it was just Bordeleau, who has done nothing but further cement himself as a bust in the year and a half since while Lundkvist has developed into a regular for a great team’s blueline.

Simply arguing you don't exactly have a track record any better than the rest of us in terms of judging talent. Also, claiming the Dallas defense is "great" considering they're still trucking out Ryan Suter in a top 4 role is insane. They don't have a great defense. Like, AT ALL.

 

[Hodge]

Simply arguing you don't exactly have a track record any better than the rest of us in terms of judging talent. Also, claiming the Dallas defense is "great" considering they're still trucking out Ryan Suter in a top 4 role is insane. They don't have a great defense. Like, AT ALL.

Keep moving those goalposts. I never claimed to have a better track record than anyone when it comes to judging talent or that Dallas has a great defense. You're the one who brought up that I wanted to trade for Lundkvist as if that somehow disqualified my interest in Broberg and I simply pointed out that my suggestion was trading Bordeleau for him. A proposal that looks pretty good in hindsight considering one of them is a NHL regular on current Central Division leader while the other is so bad that we traded a draft pick for Studnicka this week rather than call him up to fill a gaping hole at center.

 

[Hodge]

Just as a demonstration of how much cap space we will have this summer I made the Broberg/Campbell trade along with some huge UFA signings and this roster still has almost $7 million in cap space (with a projected $40 million in space for 25-26):

 

[Gecklund]

Just as a demonstration of how much cap space we will have this summer I made the Broberg/Campbell trade along with some huge UFA signings and this roster still has almost $7 million in cap space (with a projected $40 million in space for 25-26):

View attachment 787386

It’s not about taking on Campbell. I’m in the camp that I’d take a flyer on Campbell for a 1st and 3rd. Broberg just doesn’t come close to that value. He might have the value of the 3rd.

 

[TheBeard]

Keep moving those goalposts. I never claimed to have a better track record than anyone when it comes to judging talent or that Dallas has a great defense. You're the one who brought up that I wanted to trade for Lundkvist as if that somehow disqualified my interest in Broberg and I simply pointed out that my suggestion was trading Bordeleau for him. A proposal that looks pretty good in hindsight considering one of them is a NHL regular on current Central Division leader while the other is so bad that we traded a draft pick for Studnicka this week rather than call him up to fill a gaping hole at center.

Nils would have been healthy scratched 85-90% of the games this year with his daily gaffs. The point is you threw out a bunch of stuff claiming broberg has "value" while, at the same time refusing to question why he still can't make the top 6 of a horrific Edmonton defense, and then turn around and use that reasoning as to why you're insistent Bordeleau is a bust.

If you honestly think we traded for Stud because Thomas is "so bad they don't want to call him up" rather than just the obvious answer of find a more experienced player to fill the void (like we did trading for Addison vs calling up Makh or Gawanke). Quinn isn't interested in filling voids with kids right now, but you only look at things in black and white. If they don't get called up then they must suck.

 

[Hodge]

It’s not about taking on Campbell. I’m in the camp that I’d take a flyer on Campbell for a 1st and 3rd. Broberg just doesn’t come close to that value. He might have the value of the 3rd.

And if Edmonton understandably doesn't want to trade a 1st since they are outside the playoff picture? Like I said earlier, I totally respect the opinion that we should just turn them down in that case...but to what end? With the cap going up by so much, is there really another contract out there we can get a 1st+3rd for taking on? Otherwise that cap space is just burning a hole in Hasso's pocket and IMO we might as well accept a package like Broberg+2nd+asset for leveraging it.

 

[Hodge]

Nils would have been healthy scratched 85-90% of the games this year with his daily gaffs. The point is you threw out a bunch of stuff claiming broberg has "value" while, at the same time refusing to question why he still can't make the top 6 of a horrific Edmonton defense, and then turn around and use that reasoning as to why you're insistent Bordeleau is a bust.

If you honestly think we traded for Stud because Thomas is "so bad they don't want to call him up" rather than just the obvious answer of find a more experienced player to fill the void (like we did trading for Addison vs calling up Makh or Gawanke). Quinn isn't interested in filling voids with kids right now, but you only look at things in black and white. If they don't get called up then they must suck.

You think Lundkvist would have been a constant healthy scratch on the worst defense assembled in the salary cap era even though he has played in 80% of the games for a division leading Cup contender? Are you reading these posts back to yourself after writing them?

We absolutely wouldn't have acquired Addison if the org thought Gawanke or Mukhamadullin was good enough to fill that role. They didn't. In the case of Gawanke that was likely a death knell for his NHL career but Mukhamadullin is younger and literally just came over to North America at the end of last season. Bordeleau has had three different stints in the NHL with a chance to stick and failed every time. That's why we acquired Studnicka.

 

[Gecklund]

And if Edmonton understandably doesn't want to trade a 1st since they are outside the playoff picture? Like I said earlier, I totally respect the opinion that we should just turn them down in that case...but to what end? With the cap going up by so much, is there really another contract out there we can get a 1st+3rd for taking on? Otherwise that cap space is just burning a hole in Hasso's pocket and IMO we might as well accept a package like Broberg+2nd+asset for leveraging it.

They can protect it. I’d fully take a say top 10 protected first that becomes 2025 unprotected. There’s no point in taking on Campbell for a bunch of barely B pieces. We also wouldn’t be able to take on Campbell until the TDL anyway cause of cap issues. We have less than 2M in space and EDM can’t take on any cap. I know you had Rutta going the other way but EDM doesn’t want Rutta. No one wants Rutta. But all that to say EDM should have a better idea of where they are at around then.

I’m sure there are other less lengthy cap dumps. I don’t have any off the top of my head but that’s more cause my brain is FRIED from holiday planning.

 

[TheBeard]

You think Lundkvist would have been a constant healthy scratch on the worst defense assembled in the salary cap era even though he has played in 80% of the games for a division leading Cup contender? Are you reading these posts back to yourself after writing them?

We absolutely wouldn't have acquired Addison if the org thought Gawanke or Mukhamadullin was good enough to fill that role. They didn't. In the case of Gawanke that was likely a death knell for his NHL career but Mukhamadullin is younger and literally just came over to North America at the end of last season. Bordeleau has had three different stints in the NHL with a chance to stick and failed every time. That's why we acquired Studnicka.

Actually he didn't fail every time. The first two stints the season ended.

Also, Quinn always had a reputation of favoring vets over kids, and Grier absolutely should be looking at other teams' scrap heaps for hidden gems because there's no reason to expedite the development of the kids. None.

Also, since you can't seem to have a civil conversation (never seen it except for that weird brief appearance of Calm Rational Hodge late last year) without getting so goddamn butthurt prompting you to uncontrollably throw in lame, childish barbs, I'd like to add, ArE yOu EvEn LiStEnInG tO yOuRsElF, bRo?!?!?!?!

 

[Hodge]

Actually he didn't fail every time. The first two stints the season ended.

Also, Quinn always had a reputation of favoring vets over kids, and Grier absolutely should be looking at other teams' scrap heaps for hidden gems because there's no reason to expedite the development of the kids. None.

Also, since you can't seem to have a civil conversation (never seen it except for that weird brief appearance of Calm Rational Hodge late last year) without getting so goddamn butthurt prompting you to uncontrollably throw in lame, childish barbs, I'd like to add, ArE yOu EvEn LiStEnInG tO yOuRsElF, bRo?!?!?!?!

Bordeleau has failed to make any impact whatsoever in his NHL stints beyond a shootout goal.

How exactly is calling Bordeleau up a 4th time "expediting his development" any more than the previous 3 call ups? The kid is on an expiring contract. A decision needs to be made relatively soon on whether he's even worth keeping around beyond this season. If it's ever going to happen for Bordeleau it should be happening right now with 2 of the team's top 4 centers out long term.

I genuinely am sorry if I came off as rude but the idea that Lundkvist would be scratched in 90% of Sharks games when he has played in 80% of Stars game is too absurd to merit a civil response.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

They can protect it. I’d fully take a say top 10 protected first that becomes 2025 unprotected. There’s no point in taking on Campbell for a bunch of barely B pieces.

I’m sure there are other less lengthy cap dumps. I don’t have any off the top of my head but that’s more cause my brain is FRIED from holiday planning.

I don't see a scenario where Edmonton does dump Campbell w/o trading a protected 1st round pick. The motivation for another team to eat Campbell's contract has to be there somewhere. Spending cap for the sake of spending cap even with it rising is just not a convincing case to make. Now if this sort of deal allows them to get rid of some of the logjam on defense, I can see that helping the cause a bit but we're talking about 13.5 mil to deal with after this season with Campbell and only 2.5 mil being returned thus far in Rutta.

I think for it to make sense w/o a 1st, it'd have to look something like Campbell with 1 mil retained with Broberg and a 2nd for Rutta, Knyzhov, and either Benning or Burroughs.

 

[Hodge]

I don't see a scenario where Edmonton does dump Campbell w/o trading a protected 1st round pick. The motivation for another team to eat Campbell's contract has to be there somewhere. Spending cap for the sake of spending cap even with it rising is just not a convincing case to make. Now if this sort of deal allows them to get rid of some of the logjam on defense, I can see that helping the cause a bit but we're talking about 13.5 mil to deal with after this season with Campbell and only 2.5 mil being returned thus far in Rutta.

I think for it to make sense w/o a 1st, it'd have to look something like Campbell with 1 mil retained with Broberg and a 2nd for Rutta, Knyzhov, and either Benning or Burroughs.

Buying Campbell out this offseason would only cost $9 million. Offset by $2.5 mlilion since Rutta's salary for next year would be going the other way. So the question is whether Broberg, EDM's 2024 2nd and Petrov is worth $6.5 million. I think the answer is yes although I admit it's not a slam dunk.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Buying Campbell out this offseason would only cost $9 million. Offset by $2.5 mlilion since Rutta's salary for next year would be going the other way. So the question is whether Broberg, EDM's 2024 2nd and Petrov is worth $6.5 million. I think the answer is yes although I admit it's not a slam dunk.

That would be our cost for Campbell but when it comes to extracting trade value, it's about the cap you're taking from them so it's more than that and Broberg and Petrov aren't appealing options on potential. I feel like their peak is still fringe NHL'ers for both of them.

 

[GRANdSharks]

The idea that broberg is enough to dump Campbell is rediculous maybe as an add on to a first round pick and another asset. He is nothing special but his tools are intriguing and the sharks don't have enough established talent so may as well take a flier if the price is right.